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MrHedgehog
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Posted - 23 Nov 2012 :  04:10:08  Show Profile  Visit MrHedgehog's Homepage Send MrHedgehog a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
So I just noticed Elturgard having an ETERNAL SUN. I am pretty sure that would not be any better than eternal darkness. Without darkness people can't sleep, people who don't sleep go insane, this would disrupt nature (what happens to nocturnal animals like owls?), and if it is always high noon water would evaporate more quickly, etc. How is this good? It would cause chaos! Or is it magically benign and not actually have the effects of having two suns?

When I read power of Faerun I didn't realize Amaunatar's Eternal Sun was permanent before. I thought it was a temporary miracle or something not something that would last FOREVER.

Also, if this sun was created by priests of Lathander/Amaunatar why is Torm the state religion? (Not that there should be state religions in the realms since it contravenes the nature of religion as explained by the world's creators....)

And how did the eternal sun move from Elversult to its new location far to the west? (The spell plague...?) Or is it a new casting of the epic spell?

(I don't own or have access to a copy of the 4th edition Campaign Setting I saw this on forgotten realms wiki.)

Edited by - MrHedgehog on 23 Nov 2012 04:31:17

Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 23 Nov 2012 :  04:29:46  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog

So I just noticed Elturgard having an ETERNAL SUN. I am pretty sure that would not be any better than eternal darkness. Without darkness people can't sleep, people who don't sleep go insane, this would disrupt nature (what happens to nocturnal animals like owls?), and if it is always high noon water would evaporate more quickly, etc. How is this good? It would cause chaos!

When I read power of Faerun I didn't realize Amaunatar's Eternal Sun was permanent before. I thought it was a temporary miracle or something not something that would last FOREVER.

Also, if this sun was created by priests of Lathander/Amaunatar why is Torm the state religion? (Not that there should be state religions in the realms since it contravenes the nature of religion as explained by the world's creators....)

(I don't own or have access to a copy of the 4th edition Campaign Setting I saw this on forgotten realms wiki.)



People can sleep during the day; it's not all that uncommon. I used to sleep until noon, daily, because I was at the time working until midnight or later every night.

I'd imagine that the second sun provides more light than anything else, or otherwise Elturgard would be turned into Tattooine (Eltooine?).

I'd also imagine that the initially created second sun was only a temporary thing, but Amaunator stepped in and made it permanent.

And I think the question of why Torm is so prominent there has been raised before; I don't recall that it was ever answered.

For me, all of this lore is simply too problematic. It's one of many reasons I stick with the 1370s.

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MrHedgehog
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Posted - 23 Nov 2012 :  04:43:58  Show Profile  Visit MrHedgehog's Homepage Send MrHedgehog a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wanted to have an adventure in Berdusk and I play 4th edition. I wanted it to involve harpers and Cyrylia Dragonbreast now being an Archlich.... I can just ignore it but I am also just really confused. Sorry if a thread was made about this before.

I am going to assume the Spellplague (deux ex machina much?) moved the eternal sun. But a theocratic kingdom seems to go against what Harpers believe in (city states not large kingdoms, etc.) and Berdusk was supposed to be their center. Unless this Elturgard is a "small kingdom"...

On the internet I read that the sun is "heatless". But I still think although we sentient bipeds (humans, elves, dwarves...) can cover our eyes even the effects of street lights confuse wild animals, plants, etc. I am specifically thinking of Sea Turtles not being able to navigate thinking lights are stars and the moon. It seems way too high fantasy for me. There is such a thing as way too much going on and this falls into that category in my mind.
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Quale
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Posted - 23 Nov 2012 :  06:32:25  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Light pollution in real life affects human health, I think animals that are bothered with it would leave the area. I don't know what people in places like Iceland do, possibly shut off the house.
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MrHedgehog
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Posted - 23 Nov 2012 :  11:43:13  Show Profile  Visit MrHedgehog's Homepage Send MrHedgehog a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I completely did not think about how people deal with it in the arctic. Everyone in Elturgard could just have like blindfolds for when they sleep in addition to shutters and stuff (if they have windows at all)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnight_sun

This says they can experience hypomnia and insomnia. Maybe that is why the rulers are so fanatical about fighting evil...they're a little bonkers from too much sunlight! But then that is only for the summer in reality. I guess animals/plants would adapt or die. I looked up artificial light on plants and the things I read said plants can't rest if they are always exposed to light. Could plants emerge that are fine with perpetual sunlight or would that impact the environment of this land negatively?

With two suns the double brightness seems like it would cause damage to eyesight unless measures were taken as well.
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Bladewind
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Netherlands
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Posted - 23 Nov 2012 :  15:27:00  Show Profile Send Bladewind a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd say the wilds of Elturgard are likely to have seen an explosive growth at the cost of biodiversity of the area.

Plants that grow faster and have efficient photosyntheses make more sugars for maintaining and expanding their biomass. Plants like flowers (sunflowers and lillies), high growing trees (oaks), perannual grasses (like rye and bamboo) are likely to have outcompeted more slow growing ones, and the most succesful ones would have secured dominant near-monocultures in their favored areas.

So expect humongous fields of sunflowers and tall golden colored ryes, forests consisting of oaks, poplars and redwoods each trying to reaching for more and more extreme heights, with lots of ferns beneath the shadows that the tree crowns create. Watery areas would initially see lots of huge willows, lillies and algal blooms, who slowly but surely will turn the swamps into solid lands as they transpire the waters and leave their biomass to fill in the hollows.

Agriculture could flourish if supplied with a efficient irrigation system, with particularly vine and grapeyards capable of giving year long harvests of considerable yields. Also fruits and vegetables like tomatos, oranges and olives could be very succesful.

Essentially wild growth gone completely out of balance.

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MrHedgehog
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Posted - 23 Nov 2012 :  20:37:42  Show Profile  Visit MrHedgehog's Homepage Send MrHedgehog a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am no botanist but I think that plants don't do well with constant light, either. But I guess it is a magical world and they could use divine magic or something to create plants or something. Or do I not understand how plants would actually react to perpetual light?
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 24 Nov 2012 :  02:48:27  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In the Death Gate Cycle, there was a world with perpetual sunlight... And the plantlife was so abundant that they had lakes and seas in the treetops, and it was a journey of days, maybe weeks, to safely make it to the ground.

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Bladewind
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Posted - 24 Nov 2012 :  07:33:37  Show Profile Send Bladewind a Private Message  Reply with Quote
During the night a plant does rest, but not as animals do. Their photosynthesis is stopped by the lack of light, so they don't 'decide to go in rest' but are forced into it. So they end up maintaining only their respiratory and transpiratory metabolic processes, and plants will actually end up using up oxygen and breaking down sugars into water and carbondioxide to maintain their metabolic functions (just as as most cellular life does). Constant light is beneficial for most plants because their production of sugars (and oxygen) would not be limited by the imput of light.

There are certain plants that rely on the fluctuations in the input of light, water or carbon to enter life stages more beneficial at that time and place. The transformation of seeds to seedlings to mature plants comes to mind. And certainly some flowers and orchids rely on long periods of nighttime or shade to enter or alter new shapes and forms. Thats why I said the Eternal Sun would cause mono cultures (large areas with only a single succesful plantspecies), only the plants that do not rely on special adaptations to night time for their function (but most don't) will survive and secure their places. The massive monoculture fields and forrests are furthermore filled by the most productive species during the day, who litereally outgrow others.

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Derulbaskul
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Posted - 24 Nov 2012 :  12:19:59  Show Profile Send Derulbaskul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog (snip) Also, if this sun was created by priests of Lathander/Amaunatar why is Torm the state religion? (Not that there should be state religions in the realms since it contravenes the nature of religion as explained by the world's creators....) (snip)


The explanation I like - which is not canon - is posted here: http://my-realms.blogspot.com/2010/12/black-age-of-bane-part-one.html
and is inspired by ideas from 2E's Bastion of Faith.

quote:
One of my favourite themes for the backstories of the campaigns I run is that of heresy. I find the idea of heretical movements within ostensibly Good and Lawful Good religions to be fuel for a range of NPCs, events, encounters, adventures and campaigns.

There was an excellent DDi article written by Erik Scott de Bie in Dungeon 171 titled The Eye of Justice. It was about a heretical sect in the church of Torm based in Westgate.

The church of Torm is the state religion in the nation of Elturgard which is distinguished by the existence of a second son, known as The Companion, created as a Epic spell (3.5e) or Epic ritual (4E) by a pre-Spellplague heretic known as Daelegoth Orndeir. Orndeir was a follower of Amaunator at a time when believing in Amaunator was a heresy within the church of Lathander. Furthermore, he was a believer in the Three-Faced Sun heresy which postulated that there were three aspects to the sun deity - dawn, highsun and dusk - and that only two could be "showing" at any one time. According to Orndeir and his then-fellow heretics, Lathander represented the dawn, Amaunator, highsun and Myrkul, dusk. Myrkul's demise meant that Amaunator should be ascendant at the same time as Lathander.

We do not know canonically how this situation was resolved before or during the Spellplague but we do know that Amaunator is definitely ascendant, as a greater power, no less, in the 4E Realms. One of the things I liked about Amaunator even during the 2E period was here was a Lawful Good deity who could just as easily be Lawful Evil (3.5E and earlier) or Evil (4E). In fact, I see Amaunator as a challenger of Bane for the portfolio of tyranny.

So, back to Torm as the state religion of Elturgard.

It seems strange when you first read the 4E Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide (FRCG) that the state religion of Elturgard, with such a powerful and obvious display of Amaunator's might by way of The Companion, should be that of Torm. Unless, of course, you also look at how it talks about a darkness sealed within Fort Morninglord (which is also off-limits on pain of death) and consider that Amaunator has a tyrannical streak within him... as do, no doubt, some of his followers.

So, what if Orndeir's heresies extended into outright apostasy and he came to embrace Bane? Perhaps he also saw Bane as the true heir of the mantle of dusk from Myrkul. If he believed that, then it would be very easy for Bane to lure him over to his side as a natural outgrowth of his believe in the (heresy of) The Three-Faced Sun.

So, let's assume that Elturgard's first state religion was Amaunatori in nature, with Daelegoth Orndeir as Righteous Potentate (as high priests of Amaunator were styled). In due course, Orndeir took to himself a more majestic title of Supreme Righteous Potentate as he sought, driven in part by the whispers of Bane, to extend his golden rule of light and law across all of Faerūn.

In due course, sometime during the years of the Spellplague, the tyrannies of the Supreme Righteous Potentate were opposed by heroic followers of Torm and, eventually, Orndeir was overthrown. So ashamed were other Amaunatori of this episode in the history of their religion, particularly at a time when Amaunator was making an obvious return, that they agreed to pass rulership of Elturgard to the Tormites and to hide the records of this era, and an imprisoned Orndeir, beneath Fort Morninglord.

Fast forward a few decades and the church of Torm is very much in charge but, like the Amaunatori before them, are becoming increasingly strident, harsh, cruel and tyrannical. Add to this the heresies of The Eye of Justice mentioned above and you can see that Elturgard is being taken over by the whispers of Bane once more except this time it is the Tormites who are being persuaded by his subtleties.


quote:
(snip)And how did the eternal sun move from Elversult to its new location far to the west? (The spell plague...?) Or is it a new casting of the epic spell? (snip)


The honest answer was that Rich Baker admitted that he got the cities confused. It was an honest mistake by my favourite D&D designer and no big deal, IMO.

If required, it can be explained away by an Epic ritual to move the sun to the new seat of Amaunator's worship or something similar. It's probably just easier to assume it was always there unless Power of Faerun has already played a large role in your campaign.

Cheers
D

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Bladewind
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Netherlands
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Posted - 24 Nov 2012 :  16:26:49  Show Profile Send Bladewind a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Definately support the ideas Scrivener of Doom presented on the WotC boards and his blog. I too love conflict and heresy story arcs in lawful or good religions.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
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Posted - 24 Nov 2012 :  17:07:02  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd have to agree completely with Wooly - it was just one of those 'kewl ideas' that wasn't given much thought. Its the type of thing I look at and say, "why?"

It was probably something that was explored in someone's home game, and they gave it a nod in canon, and now our baby got a little uglier.

Plant life must be abundant in the region, and undead must hate the place. While on the surface that sounds like a Druid's paradise, they'd probably really hate the unnatural lack of day/night cycles (druids LOVE their cycles).

If I lived in the Realms, I'd make a fortune on selling 'sleep masks' in the area.

EDIT: LOL - I just pictured Drow getting hired by the wealthy to cast 'globes of darkness'.


*Grammatical Correction

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 26 Nov 2012 19:32:53
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MrHedgehog
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Posted - 26 Nov 2012 :  07:41:04  Show Profile  Visit MrHedgehog's Homepage Send MrHedgehog a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Derulbaskul I love your blog!!
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Derulbaskul
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Singapore
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Posted - 08 Dec 2012 :  14:48:04  Show Profile Send Derulbaskul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog

Derulbaskul I love your blog!!



Thanks. :)

Cheers
D

NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here.
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TheIriaeban
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Posted - 08 Apr 2021 :  16:43:44  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
THREADUS RESSURRECTUS!

So, I was looking at the trading done through Iriaebor and came across that sun over Elversult again. Was it ever determined WHEN or even IF the sun was moved to Elturel? Has anything been released to confirm that the sun is no longer over Elversult?

Another thing, as a consequence of this epic magic, Suzail would be in a perpetual late afternoon/early morning. In fact, pretty much the entire Lake of Dragons wouldn't have night, either. So, if there was any novel that involved those areas post-midsummer of 1374 and had a night mentioned, that could be when it was either moved or removed from Elversult.

Finally, if the sun over Elturel is the same magic as the one that was over Elversult, that means that there is no night in Scornubel, Soubar, Triel, Hardbuckler, a good portion of The Reaching Woods, over half of The Wood of Sharp Teeth, the soutwest portion of The Forrest of Wyrms, and an area that almost reaches to The Troll Hills (a good portion of the Fields of the Dead). Is that mentioned in any works after the 1440s?

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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 08 Apr 2021 :  19:56:15  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I always assumed that either the second sun was lower or somehow just focused on that one small (relatively) area.

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TBeholder
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Posted - 10 Apr 2021 :  02:58:15  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The exact effects would depend on the amount of heat.
Resulting permanent updraft could compensate a lot, however.
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog

Also, if this sun was created by priests of Lathander/Amaunatar why is Torm the state religion?

The most obvious answer is "That's exactly why! (the interviewed local exasperatedly points in the general direction of that fun-sized magic lamp)".

quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban


Finally, if the sun over Elturel is the same magic as the one that was over Elversult, that means that there is no night in Scornubel, Soubar, Triel, Hardbuckler, a good portion of The Reaching Woods, over half of The Wood of Sharp Teeth, the soutwest portion of The Forrest of Wyrms, and an area that almost reaches to The Troll Hills (a good portion of the Fields of the Dead). Is that mentioned in any works after the 1440s?

Depends on the height and obstacles.
Forests that aren't straight under it would shade themselves and everything beyond, for one.
And generally plants that normally require greater light day or warmth would thrive, thus grow large whenever allowed, all over the affected area.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
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Zeromaru X
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Colombia
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Posted - 10 Apr 2021 :  03:23:22  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The enigma behind the second sun of Elturel is revealed in the adventure "Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus". The second sun, aka The Companion or Amaunator's Gift, was actually a trapped planetar whitin a Solar Insidiator, a device created by Zariel, archdevil of Avernus, as part of a plot to trap and steal the city away to the Nine Hells. The light The Companion illuminated the land day and night, and suffused all of Elturel. However, it produced no heat. It harmed light-allergic beings, such as the undead. The Companion can be destroyed during in the events of this adventure.

So, to actually answer the question, nope. The second sun of Elversult is of a different nature than The Companion.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 10 Apr 2021 03:24:39
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George Krashos
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Australia
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Posted - 10 Apr 2021 :  03:41:26  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think the eternal sun over Elversult and the Companion of Elturgard have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

-- George Krashos

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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 10 Apr 2021 :  05:58:23  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

The enigma behind the second sun of Elturel is revealed in the adventure "Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus". The second sun, aka The Companion or Amaunator's Gift, was actually a trapped planetar whitin a Solar Insidiator, a device created by Zariel, archdevil of Avernus, as part of a plot to trap and steal the city away to the Nine Hells. The light The Companion illuminated the land day and night, and suffused all of Elturel. However, it produced no heat. It harmed light-allergic beings, such as the undead. The Companion can be destroyed during in the events of this adventure.


-Does it go into more detail about how the second sun was supposed to accomplish that?

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sleyvas
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Posted - 10 Apr 2021 :  15:12:19  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would agree that we shouldn't conflate the two (though it is obvious that this was just a mistake by someone because both cities start with Eltur). However, regarding some of the things people have said, it might be worth considering.... what is the difference between the two suns and the REAL sun. By that, I mean, in terms of "energy" in D&D 5e there is a difference between "radiant" energy and "elemental fire". I would say that the one created by High Magic might be one that generates radiant energy but not "elemental fire" energy. So, what else in the realmspace crystal sphere does that? The portals to the plane of radiance that are the stars on the inner shell of the crystal sphere. So, perhaps all that the sun is over Elturel is a redirection of the "portal endpoint" of one of the stars on the shell of the crystal sphere, and maybe the results of it are the results of radiant energy (things heal faster, grow faster, and undead are affected by its energy).... but maybe there's unintended effects as well (people age faster, children mature physically but not mentally faster).... just some ideas.


Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

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TheIriaeban
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Posted - 10 Apr 2021 :  16:00:28  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks everyone. That answers the question if the two are basically the same magic: they are not. That does leave the problem of the extremely large area for the one over Elversult, though. Per the spell on page 60 of the PoF, the "sun" is 12,000 ft above the ground. Here is the spell description:

"When this spell is cast, it creates a miniature sun morc than 2 miles above the point of casting and hides the true sun from
anyone able to see the false sun (anyone within 150 miles of the caster's location at the time of casting). The sun's apparent
size (the same as the real sun, subtending about 0.5 degrees in sky) stays the same regardless of a viewer's distance from it. This
has the effect of making it seem to be permanently as bright as high noon within the spell's area (although the actual position of
the false sun in the sky is gradually lower in the sky as a viewer moves away from the point of casting' eventually sinking below
the horizon once the viewer is more than 150 miles away)."

So, re-reading the description, it would seem that I made a mistake. It is high noon everywhere within the 150 mile radius area of effect (70,686 square miles). Since the "sun" blocks the real sun, it would have to produce heat (the spell is listed as Evocation (Fire) and not Illusion) in that area so I would think that would cause, at a minimum, drought conditions and if it is in effect long enough, desertification.

Then there is the issue of the amount of heat that would be pumping into the Lake of Dragons. That would certainly raise the lake's temperature, making it more of a tropical water temp and probably killing off wildlife that cannot live in water of those higher temps. Then, you would have the evaporation of lots more water than normal and it has already been established that the Lake of Dragons is the source for the moisture in the storms of the Storm Horns. Cormyr would end up having record flooding from all the water getting dumped in the more severe storms.

Given all of these effects over such a large area, SOMEONE would have done something to get rid of it before too long.

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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 10 Apr 2021 :  16:40:36  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-It just hides the actual sun from view for anyone in the casting area/area of effect. The planet is still spinning/orbiting the sun in the same manner, so the sun is still moving through the sky as normal; it just can't be seen. I wouldn't assume that it is producing heat, otherwise the area would've basically been immolated out of existence pretty quickly, as during actual daylight hours there would basically have been two suns heating it. It's almost more of a mass illusion more than anything else.

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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 10 Apr 2021 :  17:25:30  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I see no reason to assume it's providing the full heat of the sun, as well. If it was, it wouldn't just make everything a desert, it'd melt everything.

And it's obviously not providing the full light of the sun, since under normal circumstances what is seen from the real sun is diminished by distance and atmosphere.

The conclusion, then, is that the mini-sun has a greatly diminished output of light and heat, and that the end result is the permanent conditions of a sunny day. Note that even this does not necessarily include more heat from having two suns; I'm sure we've all been outside on a clear day during wintertime.

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Ayrik
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Posted - 10 Apr 2021 :  18:29:43  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/The_Companion

"The light of this second sun illuminated the land day and night, and suffused all of Elturel. However, it produced no heat."

"It could be seen from nearly anywhere within Elturgard, making it a land of unending daylight, though its brightness faded with distance. Some 50 miles (80 kilometers) away from Elturel, it cast a pale dawn light. Further away, it was a bright beacon in the sky, and from as far away as Berdusk and Boareskyr Bridge, it was an unmoving star hanging low over the horizon."

Emphasis is mine. The wiki cites several specific published sources, though I don't own any of them and can't confirm the text.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 10 Apr 2021 20:31:01
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TheIriaeban
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USA
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Posted - 10 Apr 2021 :  18:48:00  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I see no reason to assume it's providing the full heat of the sun, as well. If it was, it wouldn't just make everything a desert, it'd melt everything.

And it's obviously not providing the full light of the sun, since under normal circumstances what is seen from the real sun is diminished by distance and atmosphere.

The conclusion, then, is that the mini-sun has a greatly diminished output of light and heat, and that the end result is the permanent conditions of a sunny day. Note that even this does not necessarily include more heat from having two suns; I'm sure we've all been outside on a clear day during wintertime.



The spell description says that it does provide the full brightness of the sun and since it was cast at midsummer, I would say it would replicate what was being provided then (otherwise, if it replicated winter, it would actually be brighter outside the area of effect when it was cast).

Also, it says it "creates a miniature sun" and not the image of a sun so I would say that implies heat as well. Remember, this spell was created by a sun zealot and not a druid or other environmentally aware faith. He couldn't have cared less about environmental effects as long as it generated the worship he was looking for. Combine that with the school of magic (Evocation-Fire) and having a spell that replicates noon at the middle of summer is exactly what he was aiming for (including warmth). Since the spell does say it blocks the real sun, I would say that it blocks everything from that sun including heat. That way, it isn't hotter than normal for summer where you are in the area of effect, it just isn't any cooler, either.

Finally, by having the spell have detrimental effects also feeds into the "be careful what you wish for" motif and also re-enforces Mystra's mantra of carefully considering just what effects your magic is going to have. Sure, the guy that cast the spell got the worshippers he is looking for but he also angered others to varying degrees. Mayhap even enough to generate a crusade against the guy and his band of heretics by some other god's church. Really, the more detrimental the effects, the larger the number of groups interested in stopping it and that means more adventure hooks with higher stakes.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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