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 Current form of the Ba'etith
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muir
Seeker

Canada
34 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2019 :  15:34:50  Show Profile Send muir a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
From Mages and Sages Ep. 11 I think it was Eric Boyd speaking:

"The Ba'etith, they still exist. They don't really remember that they exist; they transformed into another, form, let me say, that has largely forgotten where it's come from but they are still existing and the greatest of the Ba'etith, there are 5 of them, they still have a hand in the Realms, including one of them may well have had a role (I'm going to be really obscure here) in the madness of a certain line of kings."

I am still working on assimilating the lore I have access to, and so while this intrigues me greatly, I cannot make any good guesses as to what it might refer to.

I take the "transformed into another form" as referring to the organization, rather than individuals, for they were not all the same species even by the end of the Days of Thunder. So, an organization that gathers lore of the Art, with members withdrawn from actively shaping the realms, except for the 5 'greatest.' Greatest by what measure? Political influence, magical might, depth of lore gathered?

Oh, so many mysteries...

I found myself thinking of both Iolaum and the Loretakers of Oryndoll, but the former is solitary, as far as I know. The latter, maybe, though I think they do not restrict themselves to lore of the Art, and are all one species.

Any suggestions, most worthy scribes?

The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1646 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2019 :  16:02:20  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well I think the Terraseer is most certainly going to be one of them and I think he is in one of the 3e modules (the sundering of the weave I believe is the one). And I think 'greatest' will refer to both magical might and depth of lore gathered.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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muir
Seeker

Canada
34 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2019 :  16:25:12  Show Profile Send muir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gah! I did not forget about the Terraseer, but discounted it because it has certainly not forgotten where it came from. But perhaps it heads/steers an organization which has...

I am still learning not to discount modules as sources of lore.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4533 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2019 :  17:09:06  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The baetith are the nether scrolls (in my version anyway) what better way to control the weave than become part of the weave anchors that create and extend the weave.


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BrennonGoldeye
Seeker

33 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2019 :  18:02:40  Show Profile Send BrennonGoldeye a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Might they be 'Weave Ghosts' or something elder to that? I've always wondered what were the incarnations of the Weave 'before' Mystral. As often as She has changed in the past 1000 years, what were Her turmoils before Humans called Her Mystral?
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1387 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2019 :  18:53:21  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by muir

From Mages and Sages Ep. 11 I think it was Eric Boyd speaking:




Yep. :-)

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Sammael
Seeker

27 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2019 :  22:34:29  Show Profile  Visit Sammael's Homepage Send Sammael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
FFS just tell us who the 5 are :D

in all seriousness, I would say the organization as such no longer exists, only its legacies. Candlekeep may be one such legacy. Larloch may be another. Collecting and categorizing knowledge and ensuring it is never lost or forgotten - a noble goal and certainly one that's followed by many in modern Realms.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5497 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2019 :  23:10:58  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well the creation of the Nether Scrolls, as with all such potent magic, came at a ... cost.

George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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muir
Seeker

Canada
34 Posts

Posted - 22 May 2019 :  01:59:04  Show Profile Send muir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
The Ba'etith are the Nether Scrolls, (in my version anyway)


quote:
Well the creation of the Nether Scrolls, as with all such potent magic, came at a ... cost.


I have sometimes wondered whether the Nether Scrolls have any sort of 'auto-update' function. Magical knowledge continues to increase, after all, and occasionally some of the ground rules change (see: Karsus' Folly.) Updating would be easier if a soul imprint, or soul, of the creators was present.
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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1817 Posts

Posted - 22 May 2019 :  03:00:33  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by muir


"The Ba'etith, they still exist. They don't really remember that they exist; they transformed into another, form, let me say, that has largely forgotten where it's come from but they are still existing and the greatest of the Ba'etith, there are 5 of them, they still have a hand in the Realms, including one of them may well have had a role (I'm going to be really obscure here) in the madness of a certain line of kings."
[...]
I take the "transformed into another form" as referring to the organization, rather than individuals, for they were not all the same species even by the end of the Days of Thunder.

Why not? It could refer to individuals too, seeing how they're ancient. Once tey start taking other forms, does it matter much what they were? There are many, many forms into which something can be transformed and "still exist".
Possibilities are so wide, speculation even about the known ones is not very fruitful. Minions of Mystril/Mystra alone have many forms - shadowstaves, souls-in-artifacts, wanderers without memories of their past and whatnot. And how many are there "plain old" undead creatures?

quote:
Originally posted by muir

I have sometimes wondered whether the Nether Scrolls have any sort of 'auto-update' function. Magical knowledge continues to increase, after all, and occasionally some of the ground rules change (see: Karsus' Folly.) Updating would be easier if a soul imprint, or soul, of the creators was present.

Updating would be a bit like trying to embrace the infinite, then cling on as it grows.
But it's clear that one can read from the scrolls more than the Sarrukh or anyone at that time could write into them.
And there were mentions of content changing when someone re-reads a scroll later.
My theory is that the scrolls are interactive, that is don't contain all the information they provide, but mostly derive it procedurally, building upon what they can get both from the user and their "reading" of the Weave at the moment, via different methods implemented in each individual scroll.
This allows practically unlimited complexity, but doesn't necessarily imply a sentience, because it would be superfluous if the current user is a part of the device (when it's active) anyway. From what we know, most likely they aren't thinking, because there were two duplicate sets.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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Starshade
Learned Scribe

Norway
230 Posts

Posted - 22 May 2019 :  15:32:32  Show Profile Send Starshade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Line of Kings? Madness? That got to be Cormyr.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32117 Posts

Posted - 22 May 2019 :  20:55:28  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Starshade

Line of Kings? Madness? That got to be Cormyr.



I don't have an alternative, but I don't think it's Cormyr. The place is not associated with mad kings.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4533 Posts

Posted - 22 May 2019 :  21:44:53  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Shoon were pretty mad, but since Eric and George are focused on certain areas I would guess it is a reference to the north or impiltur.

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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1817 Posts

Posted - 27 May 2019 :  04:00:56  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe Aryselmalyr?

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8038 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2019 :  22:29:47  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Starshade

Line of Kings? Madness? That got to be Cormyr.

cou

I wouldn't make that assumption. We're talking a group that spans dozens of millennia since they were formed. The mad kings could have been in Narfell. They could have been amongst the elves during the crown wars. They could have been amongst the dragons or giants for that matter.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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