Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 Jhaamdath restoration movements?
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1747 Posts

Posted - 30 Aug 2018 :  15:42:11  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Remember how the Realms are swarming with secret societies, from backwater merchant cabals, and up to Knights of the Shield and Harpers?
There's yet another setup in which there's no way a whole underground movement would not form. And most likely break into splinter factions later.
I'm trying to gauge the possible attitudes of those of them who did last for significant time.

Let's recap the late history of Jhaamdath.
-1504 DR: Unther invades.
-276 DR: The coup happens, Emperor Dharien now rules the place.
He immediately immediately gets in trouble with the church of Auppenser, which naturally forms political opposition (the previous government was more or less its creation).
Also, starts fighting with the elves of the Chondalwood, presumably leading to increasing military expenses/preparations (which cannot be good for overall prosperity).
-273 DR: Dharien orders to seize the other udoxias.
* This in itself indicates lack of popularity and that it's deemed non-salvageable. Also, such a move inevitably causes an open conflict with the church of Auppenser, which is strong enough to stop this.
-264 DR: The city of Gharrent secedes, is conquered and local udoxias get seized.
* At this point the rebellious faction(s) must scatter and go underground, and we hopefully have a good idea of what this entails. Speaking of which, telepathy and cell structure are two great things that mix together far too well.
-255 DR: The elves wipe out the Twelve Cities with a tsunami. Which could not kill everyone, but the empire crumbles and exodus starts.
* On the upside, Emperor Dharien and his followers are not in the way now.
On the downside, it's a feast of vultures: remaining forces formerly loyal to the Empire, opportunists and foreign warlords try to seize any land they can, and when they can't, loot everything not nailed down (that's pretty much inevitable).
* Before this point, Valigan Thirdborn presumably was at least an ally of convenience to the rebels, now the very presence of his influence can't help but contribute to the strife of remaining factions.
-250 DR (circa): Calimshan seizes some lands and towns along the border.

Some scattered. Others... who knows?
Of those who are left, consider the siege mentality: Calimshan Empire (old enemy, still hostile and covetous); then Uther; then elves. And lest we forget, the illithids lurk somewhere.
Then, the scavenger war on ruins.
And then...

-247 DR: The Procession of Justice. Tyr's army of celestials overruns Vilhon Reach and ends the great scavenger war.
Or from a different point of view: an extraplanar invasion happens, as forces of a god venerated mainly by Calishites conquer the whole place, making further attempts to restore anything of Jhaamdath's better days impossible.
* Tyr (or his army) kills Valigan Thirdborn.
* I can't help but wonder how all the rebellious groups could possibly react on this...
Remember, it was merely 8 years after the fall of Jhaamdath. The last generation of opposition was still there, in amount at least proportional to the uninvolved commoners, and quite likely more: they needed to be alert, spread around, busy preparing for a struggle and have long-range communications, thus early warning for many. Also, they won't run far.
* No one likes those vultures, but are Tyr's servants completely different?
He doesn't like it now, you say? No one does... but back when Dharien seized power, it was just fine, or what?
* Also, opinions on Valigan Thirdborn probably used to differ greatly and violently, but became mostly a moot point once he is no more... and what's left is that a foreign god and a bunch of critters not of this world just dropped in, killed a power venerated by many Jhaamdathans at this time, and conquered the place.
* Sure, many eagerly bowed to Tyr. But then, many eagerly bowed to Emperor Dharien, too, and to all the mortal conquerors. As far as the rebels are concerned, why would it be an argument to jump the bandwagon this time, rather than evidence of weakness or lack of principles?

Much later:
- Tyr's priesthood tries to lord over others too often.
- The Emerald Enclave emerges, and holds the humans down within its reach. It occasionally comes to blows with at least one organization explicitly backed by all 3 of their gods (they assassinate Harper wizards just like any others). Turns out, it's backed by elves from Evermeet itself.
At this point theories "the elves overreacted in panic back then", and "they were pre-conditioned because the whole thing was an illithid plot" must lose some ground to "elves are habitually hostile to the humanity" and/or "they want to reconquer the Faerun, in which case they'd treat the rest of us as no better than cattle".

Food for thoughts?

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch

dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4200 Posts

Posted - 30 Aug 2018 :  16:26:35  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm thinking that the reason no one is trying to refound jhaamdath, or there is no group or groups dedicated to doing so is because chondath is jhaamdath, in fact the while vilhon region is made up of the scattered tribal remnants of jhaamdath so they feel no need to refund a nation of people that they already represent.

Trying to refound the nation possibly isn't desired because I think all the political elite were killed by the tsunami or in the chaos that followed afterwards (bandit lords and robber barons followed by a host of divine servants that slaughtered all the evils that represented the bandit lords or jhaamdaths ruling elite.

Just my thought on why not. I also think something is suppressing anyone resurrecting jhaamdath because he fell afoul of its evil the first time and does not want it to return in any guise.

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1747 Posts

Posted - 30 Aug 2018 :  17:08:15  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I'm thinking that the reason no one is trying to refound jhaamdath, or there is no group or groups dedicated to doing so is because chondath is jhaamdath, in fact the while vilhon region is made up of the scattered tribal remnants of jhaamdath so they feel no need to refund a nation of people that they already represent.

And many of them would remember that once there was more or less a golden age (even better when observed from afar, as usual), and now they have something visibly less than that. How it's not the perfect reason to dream about it (keep the memory alive, if not always meaningfully work toward returning it)?
quote:
Trying to refound the nation possibly isn't desired because I think all the political elite were killed by the tsunami or in the chaos that followed afterwards

Not necessarily, since old families wouldn't all get along with their new "Emperor" - some would stick with the stronger temples, but others won't make themselves illuminated targets by hanging out in the main cities.
But it's mostly irrelevant, since Jhaamdath as "golden age" won't be about a dynasty.
An actual attempt at re-founding obviously won't be possible for a long time. But holding onto notions of good old times, grudges and occasionally even preparations "just in case" is another matter entirely.
Early on if Tyr's followers did as much as speak against the calls to reform Jhaamdath occasionally (most likely, as they'd be in position where they have to either decry or support those, and Jhaamdath had state religion that wasn't their), that could help the "rebellious" attitude become mostly self-sustaining.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
Go to Top of Page

dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4200 Posts

Posted - 30 Aug 2018 :  17:36:05  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In which case you are left with a very old being who helped create jhaamdath but was betrayed by the humans (they stole his children) and now he hides away and murders anyone who tries to bring jhaamdath back while searching for the children he has lost or brooding over what might have been (but he is just my creation so it probably won't help you much

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31630 Posts

Posted - 30 Aug 2018 :  18:25:38  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I did some articles a while back on Realmsified warforged; one of the variants I came up with were eidelar -- crystalline bodies holding the minds of formerly human Jhaamdathan psionicists. My spin was that it was an expensive thing requiring a powerful psionicist who wanted, for whatever reason, to live past their normal lifespan, and thus forged new bodies for themselves. They were rather uncommon before the fall of Jhaamdath, and few survived the rather big dunking the whole nation took.

But I did have some survive:

quote:
Despite such near-total annihilation, a few eidelar survived. Some escaped destruction by chance, others by virtue of their rugged construction. Whatever the means, a handful of eidelar are known to remain, scattered across the Realms. One occupies the ruins of Inixrien, the Tenth City of the Sword, and it is believed another is hidden among the monks at Candlekeep. A third resides somewhere in Cormyr, watching over the Forest Kingdom for reasons unknown to any. A crystalline warrior sighted a few times in Undermountain may be an ancient Jhaamdathan psiarch, though it may also be a surviving mind-wrought golem, or some unique creation of the Mad Mage.


I had two others survive: Eiden, the first to become an eidelar and possibly the greatest psionicist after Laszik Silvermind, and a soldier turned priest of Auppenser named Kemral. Eiden's fate was unknown to wider Jhaamdath, but I assume he's still active somewhere in the Realms. Kemral eventually settled down in Thar, where he is the master of a small, hidden academy of psionicists.

It's also not unreasonable to assume some other powerful Jhaamdathi psionicists found other ways to stick around.

Me, though, I figure that there wouldn't be as much interest in Jhaamdath Reborn, as much as there would be in a Jhaamdath 2.0, one that stays firmly controlled by the priesthood of a resurgent Auppenser. Of course, that requires Auppenser to be active again; that's Kemral's goal, and Eiden himself would have similar goals.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

BadLuckBugbear
Seeker

USA
35 Posts

Posted - 30 Aug 2018 :  22:26:15  Show Profile Send BadLuckBugbear a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Did/does Eles Wianar use propaganda about restoring pre-Rotting War Chondath, the inheritor of the glories of ancient Jhaamdath, to justify and strengthen his regime?

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Eles_Wianar


Ewan Cummins

Edited by - BadLuckBugbear on 30 Aug 2018 22:30:27
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7582 Posts

Posted - 30 Aug 2018 :  22:28:04  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I did some articles a while back on Realmsified warforged; one of the variants I came up with were eidelar -- crystalline bodies holding the minds of formerly human Jhaamdathan psionicists. My spin was that it was an expensive thing requiring a powerful psionicist who wanted, for whatever reason, to live past their normal lifespan, and thus forged new bodies for themselves. They were rather uncommon before the fall of Jhaamdath, and few survived the rather big dunking the whole nation took.

But I did have some survive:

quote:
Despite such near-total annihilation, a few eidelar survived. Some escaped destruction by chance, others by virtue of their rugged construction. Whatever the means, a handful of eidelar are known to remain, scattered across the Realms. One occupies the ruins of Inixrien, the Tenth City of the Sword, and it is believed another is hidden among the monks at Candlekeep. A third resides somewhere in Cormyr, watching over the Forest Kingdom for reasons unknown to any. A crystalline warrior sighted a few times in Undermountain may be an ancient Jhaamdathan psiarch, though it may also be a surviving mind-wrought golem, or some unique creation of the Mad Mage.


I had two others survive: Eiden, the first to become an eidelar and possibly the greatest psionicist after Laszik Silvermind, and a soldier turned priest of Auppenser named Kemral. Eiden's fate was unknown to wider Jhaamdath, but I assume he's still active somewhere in the Realms. Kemral eventually settled down in Thar, where he is the master of a small, hidden academy of psionicists.

It's also not unreasonable to assume some other powerful Jhaamdathi psionicists found other ways to stick around.

Me, though, I figure that there wouldn't be as much interest in Jhaamdath Reborn, as much as there would be in a Jhaamdath 2.0, one that stays firmly controlled by the priesthood of a resurgent Auppenser. Of course, that requires Auppenser to be active again; that's Kemral's goal, and Eiden himself would have similar goals.



Hmmm, wonder if anyone has used the plangent crystal/Datharathi crystal to make a construct.... after all they were using it to replace limbs.

For that matter, in that other thread about gem dragons, I was just supposing a giant crystal of power beneath the Hill of Seven Lost Gods

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1577 Posts

Posted - 30 Aug 2018 :  23:55:41  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Has anyone noted real political movements, not just attention-starved wingnuts, seriously attempt to revive Vandal Spain, the Hun Empire or the Aksumite Empire?

Because we're talking 1500+ years and nobody born in the modern day really shares a language, culture or any other important things with people who happened to live in the same general area of land that far back.

Personally, the evidence is that the place where I was born hasn't had inhabitants that long and if we go a few centuries forward, no sane person argues for bringing the 'Papas' back to Iceland, they were scruffy Celtic Christian monks who had insane courage to sail as long as they did with as little nautical technology they had. But brave or not, monks hidden outside the boundaries of what others believe the world to be don't form stable societies. If they're not attracting immigrants and they're self-evidently not breeding (monks, remember?), well, they are kind of self-limiting.

So we go even further, until only about a millennia seperate us in time, and we could really explore all the reasons Viking society was dysfunctional. Robbery, murder, rape and slave-taking were economic cornerstones. Honestly, I've heard muzzy-headed, kitchen-sink-magick, guilt-induced post-colonial cultural appropriation kind of mention of a Norse term or two, and some white supremacist subreddits always like that sort of imagery, but no one who can actually tie his own shoelaces actually imagines we'll go back to the Icelandic Commonwealth of ca 1000 CE, complete with giving up toilet paper and the quaint notion that people who didn't have any important relatives who mattered to you might have any rights.

From what I can tell in the real world, no one really wants to restore fallen polities, except maybe ones so recently fallen that the civil war is still ongoing. But every time someone talks about restoring a country or form of government outside living memory, they're talking about using a few aesthetic props and then spinning their interprentation of history until what they claim they want 'restored' has little or nothing in common with the original, but happens to match up remarkably well with whatever new thing they want to create.

Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
Go to Top of Page

TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1747 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2018 :  02:37:06  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

In which case you are left with a very old being who helped create jhaamdath but was betrayed by the humans (they stole his children) and now he hides away and murders anyone who tries to bring jhaamdath back

Sauce?
Also, "hides away" and "murders anyone who..." don't mix well.

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I did some articles a while back on Realmsified warforged; one of the variants I came up with were eidelar -- crystalline bodies holding the minds of formerly human Jhaamdathan psionicists.
[...]
It's also not unreasonable to assume some other powerful Jhaamdathi psionicists found other ways to stick around.

Hmm, yes. But why a construct, rather than "possession" of a living body (whether as a non-corporeal spirit or from "phylactery" soul trap)? It's not like even ability to talk is very important for a telepath.
quote:
Me, though, I figure that there wouldn't be as much interest in Jhaamdath Reborn, as much as there would be in a Jhaamdath 2.0, one that stays firmly controlled by the priesthood of a resurgent Auppenser. Of course, that requires Auppenser to be active again;

Of course. If Auppenser was to appear and gather the hopeful along with the new flock, the "golden age" would look much more palpable, and the vision could become constructive enough to add "...without repeating mistakes that led to its fall".

quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

Has anyone noted real political movements, not just attention-starved wingnuts, seriously attempt to revive Vandal Spain, the Hun Empire or the Aksumite Empire?
Because we're talking 1500+ years and nobody born in the modern day really shares a language, culture or any other important things with people who happened to live in the same general area of land that far back.

1. You answered your own question, in part.
2. The other important part is: did many people habitually see any of those as a golden age?
3. Let's not forget that Jhaamdath was around for >5500 years by that time.
quote:
and nobody born in the modern day really shares a language, culture or any other important things with people who happened to live in the same general area of land that far back.

Lebanese?

I also distinctly remember that not a hundred years ago there was some wingnut who clamored for a "serious attempt" to revive old Roman Empire, of all things.
And he pulled a successful takeover. Despite being in an incurably precarious position (limited amount of fighting spirit available, lack of allies who weren't sacrificial pawns of his adversaries).
quote:
From what I can tell in the real world, no one really wants to restore fallen polities, except maybe ones so recently fallen that the civil war is still ongoing.

Uh, the Caliphate? And Aztlan.
Yes, they are rather obvious pawns. But what's important in our context is that recruitment was successful.
quote:
But every time someone talks about restoring a country or form of government outside living memory, they're talking about using a few aesthetic props and then spinning their interprentation of history until what they claim they want 'restored' has little or nothing in common with the original, but happens to match up remarkably well with whatever new thing they want to create.

Well, obviously - cannot enter the same river twice, indeed. See also "golden age".
What's unusual (and interests me) is that pre-coup Jhaamdath was obviously perceived as something like the golden age within living memory, and the attitudes and actual political movements (in part, clandestine) in favour of the old ways were formed and (most likely) widespread when they made perfect sense. Which could shape the attitudes and traditions (including clandestine ones) in long term.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31630 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2018 :  03:48:43  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I did some articles a while back on Realmsified warforged; one of the variants I came up with were eidelar -- crystalline bodies holding the minds of formerly human Jhaamdathan psionicists.
[...]
It's also not unreasonable to assume some other powerful Jhaamdathi psionicists found other ways to stick around.

Hmm, yes. But why a construct, rather than "possession" of a living body (whether as a non-corporeal spirit or from "phylactery" soul trap)? It's not like even ability to talk is very important for a telepath.



Three reasons:

1) I was making warforged.

2) I was building on an established precedent in the rules: psicrystals. If embedding a piece of your personality in a crystal is an established thing, taking the idea further isn't such a stretch.

3) Living bodies eventually fail, and even when hale and hearty, there are still basic needs that must be met: food, sleep, protection from the elements, etc. A body fashioned from inorganic material will last orders of magnitude longer with far less maintenance.

As I noted in the original write-up, this was also inspired by the B'omarr monks of Star Wars: in order to live a purely mental existence, they take their brains out and stick them in glass globes. My thinking is that someone truly dedicated to psionics and wanting to continue psionic studies past their natural lifespan would find a non-living body very appealing for that reason. All the time in the world and no concerns with such petty things as food or aging joints.

It's not that dissimilar from wizards pursuing lichdom. I'm just not a fan of liches.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4200 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2018 :  11:55:10  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't have any sources, I made him up, with a little help from our resident realms expert.

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7582 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2018 :  12:51:28  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmmm, this topic kind of spun a slightly different idea in mind for me. Ever since I read the Chronicles of the Deryni (which that series started about a decade before D&D mind you) and the later books, I've liked the idea of the psionicist who has to hide in plain sight. Now, in a world with wizards, priests, warlocks, sorcerers, druids, etc.... magical powers just aren't that special in comparison to the Deryni…. except.... the powers of a psion CAN BE fairly invisible if its mostly telepathy, teleportation, telekinesis, and mind control since they don't have to use verbal, somatic, or material components. If they DO activate some power that's visibly seen, perhaps they hide it by making it LOOK LIKE its coming from a piece of jewelry or a wand/staff (some might carry burned out wands, or even just wands that they can use for this purpose). So, what occurs to me is what if the psions worked towards "giving bad press" for other types of spellcasters to keep them out of where they migrate to. In such a way, wizards, sorcerers and especially warlocks might be shunned... and even priests of anything but a "wholesome" or "neutral" deity.


So, do we have anywhere nearby that fits this bill? Well, look at Chondath… it shuns other spellcasters. Granted that was due to some necromancer contact, but...

In another direction there is also the Council of Six in Amn.... which wouldn't it absolutely make sense for a mercantile empire to enjoy mind reading and mind control, but needing to hide it. Noting the Council of Six also have these masks that prevent their identification or any mind reading, etc.... perhaps the masks don't do a thing, and its the Council members themselves? The main goddess of the realm is Waukeen, goddess of trade, and said goddess may recognize that the most powerful thing a merchant can have is secrets and/or secret abilities. I could see some of her "clergy" actually being psions or even moreso Ardents and Divine Minds from Complete Psionic (there's even rules in Complete Psionic for Waukeenar Divine Minds, though that's no different than the other deities listed). Combining their clergy with psionics via the psychic theurge prestige class would seem to fit (below for link to psychic theurge).

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925b

I can also see monks who serve as "fists of Zuoken" in this variation of Amn, since the stated goal of these monks is to protect psionic individuals. I could also see Lurks (and Lurk/rogues) as hidden assassins serving the Council of Six and/or the church of Waukeen.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

Fineva
Seeker

Canada
68 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2018 :  00:35:16  Show Profile Send Fineva a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Can I get please dates for the " much later" of the OP? Tyr and enclave dates?
Thanks

I"
Go to Top of Page

TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1747 Posts

Posted - 05 Sep 2018 :  23:15:30  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
But why a construct, rather than "possession" of a living body (whether as a non-corporeal spirit or from "phylactery" soul trap)?.


2) I was building on an established precedent in the rules: psicrystals. If embedding a piece of your personality in a crystal is an established thing, taking the idea further isn't such a stretch.

Yes, but it can go in many ways, including "phylactery" and perhaps something else.
quote:

3) Living bodies eventually fail, and even when hale and hearty, there are still basic needs that must be met: food, sleep, protection from the elements, etc.

Does it matter? It's a part of "indefinite". And when it dies, there will be another owlbear/umber hulk/yellow musk zombie/ooze/...
On the upside, the initial investment is quite low, and when eventually something breaks the puppet body, it's easier to control a nearby critter until something better is found than to build a whole construct.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Hmmm, this topic kind of spun a slightly different idea in mind for me. Ever since I read the Chronicles of the Deryni (which that series started about a decade before D&D mind you) and the later books, I've liked the idea of the psionicist who has to hide in plain sight.

Even if not quite "has", yes. It's called in Realms "Invisible Art" for a reason.
Then again, many wizards hide too, while they can. And other power groups (those jewelers of Irl, merchant cabals, etc). Psionics just happens to be a sort of power particularly fit for hiding.
And let's not forget ever-present threats like illithids, either.
So it's either a strong defensible school careful to not be involved in the worldly affairs too much (like College of the Eclipse), or hiding.
quote:
Originally posted by Fineva

Can I get please dates for the " much later" of the OP? Tyr and enclave dates?

Emerald Enclave (back then "The House of Silvanus" was founded on Ilighôn in 374 DR, according to the timeline (references: GHotR and Realmswatch).
With the priests of Tyr - no hard dates, but 'Tyrrans are “police over other priests,” or set themselves up as such, something disputed by many other clergies to the point of open spell and physical conflict' - presumably they are already inclined toward this, and tend to act this way whenever they are in a strong position, unless led by someone who won't or have explicit agreements on how to handle such things (like in Ravens Bluff).
My point is, given how Calimshan (deservedly) tend to be seen by its neighbors, and that their relations with Jhaamdath weren't great, no way Anachtyr's aggressive expansion won't raise some grumbling and rhetorical questions already. And such attitudes in these circumstances wouldn't be very healthy for either side.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31630 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2018 :  02:43:24  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
But why a construct, rather than "possession" of a living body (whether as a non-corporeal spirit or from "phylactery" soul trap)?.


2) I was building on an established precedent in the rules: psicrystals. If embedding a piece of your personality in a crystal is an established thing, taking the idea further isn't such a stretch.

Yes, but it can go in many ways, including "phylactery" and perhaps something else.
quote:

3) Living bodies eventually fail, and even when hale and hearty, there are still basic needs that must be met: food, sleep, protection from the elements, etc.

Does it matter? It's a part of "indefinite". And when it dies, there will be another owlbear/umber hulk/yellow musk zombie/ooze/...
On the upside, the initial investment is quite low, and when eventually something breaks the puppet body, it's easier to control a nearby critter until something better is found than to build a whole construct.


You're overlooking that it's not a one-time investment. Even if jumping from body to body, each body still has to be supported until the next jump. That requires food and shelter, and either the time or the money to procure them. And those bodies still need to sleep. Also, there's the constant adjusting to new bodies, and the fact that after a few centuries, you've left a sizable collection of corpses behind.

A construct, on the other hand, is a one-time investment. You jump once to a body you've fashioned with your own mind, and then you don't have to worry about any of that other rot. You find a quiet spot, and you spend the rest of your existence pursuing cerebral matters. A crystalline body could last for a span of time measured in geological terms.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

daarkknight
Seeker

USA
64 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2018 :  01:53:05  Show Profile Send daarkknight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wooly,

Do you happen to have a link to your article(s)? This is fitting in well with my current campaign.



"That's it!"
Quote attributed to Talor Stormhammer, paladin of Helm, when fighting a frost giant.
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31630 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2018 :  04:03:24  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by daarkknight

Wooly,

Do you happen to have a link to your article(s)? This is fitting in well with my current campaign.







Sure. The links are in this discussion:

Living Constructs of the Realms: Wooly's Warforged

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2018 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000