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fw190a8
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United Kingdom
31 Posts

Posted - 01 Jan 2017 :  14:26:06  Show Profile  Visit fw190a8's Homepage  Click to see fw190a8's MSN Messenger address Send fw190a8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Shoon VII is stated as having been born in 290 DR, and Lands of Intrigue book 3, p.29 says "7th nephew". Is it recorded who his parents were?

There's a general feeling that his mother was Selara, 7th child of Musaa (Shoon V), but Musaa was born 264 DR so it's unlikely he could have been born to Selara, I think?

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4156 Posts

Posted - 01 Jan 2017 :  14:46:30  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If she was born 264 DR i see no reason why she couldnt give birth to shoon 26 years later, unless my maths is wrong

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fw190a8
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 01 Jan 2017 :  15:02:54  Show Profile  Visit fw190a8's Homepage  Click to see fw190a8's MSN Messenger address Send fw190a8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

If she was born 264 DR i see no reason why she couldnt give birth to shoon 26 years later, unless my maths is wrong



Sorry for the confusion. Musaa was born in 264 DR, and her daughter was Selara, who was her 7th child, so this is me questioning that Selara is the mother of Shoon VII. In case she is not (which seems unlikely), I'm asking if there's a record of who his parents might have been!

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5308 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2017 :  00:28:53  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by fw190a8

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

If she was born 264 DR i see no reason why she couldnt give birth to shoon 26 years later, unless my maths is wrong



Sorry for the confusion. Musaa was born in 264 DR, and her daughter was Selara, who was her 7th child, so this is me questioning that Selara is the mother of Shoon VII. In case she is not (which seems unlikely), I'm asking if there's a record of who his parents might have been!



Steven is a dear friend of mine but has a shocking penchant for royalty having children in their teens! The Tethyr line is proof of that. Thankfully the Calimshan lineage wasn't published in GHotR so it is still salvageable. I'm (slowly) working on Calimshan's (but it is massive and a real grind) so I'll mend that fence when I get to it. In the meantime I'll trawl through Steven's EoSS notes to see whether it was a printing or transcription error.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 02 Jan 2017 01:40:53
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5308 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2017 :  01:19:44  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just looked at the notes - printed as drafted.

My fix is straightforward: Qysara Shoon V is born in 250 DR, her son Qysar Shoon VI is born in 273 DR and his sister Selara is born in 275 DR. The rest of the dates marry up okay after that.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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fw190a8
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United Kingdom
31 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2017 :  06:23:10  Show Profile  Visit fw190a8's Homepage  Click to see fw190a8's MSN Messenger address Send fw190a8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Just looked at the notes - printed as drafted.

My fix is straightforward: Qysara Shoon V is born in 250 DR, her son Qysar Shoon VI is born in 273 DR and his sister Selara is born in 275 DR. The rest of the dates marry up okay after that.

-- George Krashos



Many thanks for this George!

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2017 :  22:00:22  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The original dates may have worked (and there is nothing wrong with young teens having children 'way back in the day' - they got married sometimes before they were 10, and women were considered 'beyond child-bearing years' when they hit 30), if he hadn't specified '7th child'. That really screws the pooch.

Even if the first woman had a child at 11 (pushing it, but possible), the second would have had to have 6 kids BEFORE 15... thats ROUGH. Even at one every 9 months that gives you 4 years, so she herself would have had to been 11 also. That means her 1st pregnancy would have had to have been conceived when she was just 10.

Unless there were multiple sets of twins involved, but even then, we are really pushing the envelope.

I'm surprised you didn't just say she had a set of sextuplets before given birth to Selara... I know how much you guys adamantly adhere to original canon as-written.

And, of course, that would have still given us a pair of 13-year-olds giving birth... AFTER sextuplets.

EDIT:
And as an aside, speaking of Steven Schend's wonderful work on The Lands of Intrigue - the next map I release - possibly later today - will have a nice chunk of Amn and Tethyr on it. Not that I planned any of that, I just got VERY carried away with a side project.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 03 Jan 2017 22:06:40
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5308 Posts

Posted - 05 Jan 2017 :  01:17:54  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sometimes you just have to put your hands up and admit that a bit of lore is stuffed and should be fixed. Steven did it himself in terms of his dating for Prince Azoun's battles with Valashar - which was fixed in EotSS after it was done incorrectly in LOI.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 05 Jan 2017 :  17:04:46  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I had never noted the differences between the LoI timelines and the EotSS ones - I assume the GHotR went with the latter, of course?

Timelines and lineages were never my 'thing', but if there is a rock two feet out of place somewhere I'll notice.

And hopefully I'll have that new map up on DeviantART later today - I got even more crazy and added-in the Marsh Drover villages... I just can't help myself. Not that its anything fancy - just a little something I amused myself with over the holidays.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 05 Jan 2017 17:06:18
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fw190a8
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United Kingdom
31 Posts

Posted - 06 Jan 2017 :  19:16:11  Show Profile  Visit fw190a8's Homepage  Click to see fw190a8's MSN Messenger address Send fw190a8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And hopefully I'll have that new map up on DeviantART later today - I got even more crazy and added-in the Marsh Drover villages... I just can't help myself. Not that its anything fancy - just a little something I amused myself with over the holidays.



Hiya Markus. I'd be really interested to see your map for sure. I've been working on Tethyr for the Crusader Kings II mod I'm creating. Due to the way it works, land is split into counties which are grouped into duchies within a kingdom, and it's not always easy to work out what goes where by reading the lore!

This is what I came up with, which is probably at least partially inaccurate but hopefully has the core stuff in the right place! http://imgur.com/a/6LOEu

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7519 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2017 :  01:15:54  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

The original dates may have worked (and there is nothing wrong with young teens having children 'way back in the day' - they got married sometimes before they were 10, and women were considered 'beyond child-bearing years' when they hit 30), if he hadn't specified '7th child'. That really screws the pooch.

Even if the first woman had a child at 11 (pushing it, but possible), the second would have had to have 6 kids BEFORE 15... thats ROUGH. Even at one every 9 months that gives you 4 years, so she herself would have had to been 11 also. That means her 1st pregnancy would have had to have been conceived when she was just 10.

Unless there were multiple sets of twins involved, but even then, we are really pushing the envelope.

I'm surprised you didn't just say she had a set of sextuplets before given birth to Selara... I know how much you guys adamantly adhere to original canon as-written.

And, of course, that would have still given us a pair of 13-year-olds giving birth... AFTER sextuplets.

EDIT:
And as an aside, speaking of Steven Schend's wonderful work on The Lands of Intrigue - the next map I release - possibly later today - will have a nice chunk of Amn and Tethyr on it. Not that I planned any of that, I just got VERY carried away with a side project.



Wait, you didn't know that a member of the royal family was a tabaxi, and therefore they had a litter of children?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2017 :  02:58:55  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by fw190a8

Hiya Markus. I'd be really interested to see your map for sure. I've been working on Tethyr for the Crusader Kings II mod I'm creating. Due to the way it works, land is split into counties which are grouped into duchies within a kingdom, and it's not always easy to work out what goes where by reading the lore!
I had a family emergency that began last night and I only got home from the hospital about an hour ago (so like 24 hrs sitting around a hospital without much in the way of sleeping or eating). Thus, I didn't get the map done, and definitely won't tonight (going to bed). Hopefully I can polish it off in the morning before going BACK to the hospital all day (its so damn close - I just got to clean the old lettering off a mountain range, and then put 'glow' around all the text).

quote:
Originally posted by fw190a8

This is what I came up with, which is probably at least partially inaccurate but hopefully has the core stuff in the right place! http://imgur.com/a/6LOEu
Was that extrapolated from Lands of Intrigue? You do know the political maps of Amn and Tethyr were on the back covers of the individual books, right? I happened to pull both those off the covers not so long ago for my own reference, so hopefully I can share them without any legal hassles (after all, LoI was completely FREE for years on the WotC site... and it is just the back-cover maps).

I just threw it up on my Photobucket - hopefully it didn't ruin the resolution too much - Amn & Tethyr Political Maps

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 07 Jan 2017 03:00:53
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fw190a8
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United Kingdom
31 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2017 :  10:13:11  Show Profile  Visit fw190a8's Homepage  Click to see fw190a8's MSN Messenger address Send fw190a8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry to hear about your emergency Markus; hope everything is okay. There's certainly no time burden on the map from my perspective.

I feel like an idiot because I looked everywhere EXCEPT the back cover, so thanks for pointing that out! Having said that, my layout works quite well based on that political map.

Crusader Kings is limited by its own game rules, in that every kingdom must have at least one duchy, every duchy must have at least one county, etc, so it's necessary to take some liberties for, say, duchies listed in LoI that have no counties in their description.

Contributor to the Forgotten Realms Wiki: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 08 Jan 2017 :  06:12:49  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I did get the mountains cleaned-up, and even added some new text (mostly waterways & mountains, but there was one settlement I had missed). Then I made the scale, and thats as far as I got. In the morning I'll add the final flourishes, and that should be it.

I realize now that it shows almost nothing of Tethyr, aside from some tiny bit around Trailstone (which was actually Amn right up until the end of 2e). It does show most of Amn, though, which is nice, including a bunch of settlements that have never made it on a map before. Where the map really shines is Cormyr - its the most complete Player's Map ever done for it. I call it a 'Players map' because its almost entirely settlements and well-known landmarks (and geographic features), which means almost no ruins/dungeons. I consider this 'practice' for the REAL Cormyr map I am doing. LOL

And yet, NONE OF THAT had anything to do with the real reason I started playing around with this.

EDIT: New 5Shires conversion (+ much more) Map!!!


Personal Edit: As for the family emergency, the surgery was cancelled so I got a reprieve, at least until tomorrow. It was my poor sister who got stuck up at the hospital all day sitting at my mom's bedside (she fell and broke her hip).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 10 Jan 2017 00:07:26
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Lhynard
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USA
26 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2018 :  22:02:52  Show Profile  Visit Lhynard's Homepage Send Lhynard a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Just looked at the notes - printed as drafted.

My fix is straightforward: Qysara Shoon V is born in 250 DR, her son Qysar Shoon VI is born in 273 DR and his sister Selara is born in 275 DR. The rest of the dates marry up okay after that.

-- George Krashos



Sorry to bump an old thread, but I only just saw this today.

With these dates, Selara's older sister would have been born in 274 DR, but she married King Karaj II of Tethyr who was born in 290 DR. That's OK, I suppose, but she would have been in her early 30s at his coming of age when they would have been married. Maybe that's why they had a loveless, childless marriage?
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