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Talanfir Swiftfeet
Learned Scribe
Finland
143 Posts |
 Posted - 30 May 2007 : 16:47:11
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I'm interested in how spells work. here's a few I've been thinking. If you can help or have similar dilemmas please don't be afraid to post.
TELEPORTATION
As mr Newton explained a moving object has kinetic energy. If said object is teleported, is the kinetic energy absorbed by the spell. For those who have no idea what I'm talking about here's the english version.
A mage falls from his/hers flying mount. He/She falls a hundred feet before managing to teleport to the ground. Does he/she get damaged from the fall.
If so then a character who is teleported while charging would trip because his/her feet would be in an akward position while the movement is taken away. What about other spells that shift you from one place to another like Gate or dimensional door.
ZONE OF CLEAR AIR (or what is that spell called)
Rules state that invisibility has no effect on creatures with a good sense of smell. Does a zone of clear air or a spell that controls the direction of the wind make you invisible to these creatures.
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I am Talanfir Swiftfeet. (In)famous across the Swoardcoast as "Tal the Swift", Brandobaris´ seraph of mischief. If ye find yer shoelaces tied together while trying to catch a thief or meet a king who is angry because somebody switched the places of his chamberpot and his crown, ye can usually (try to) find me near.
If I had a halfling mother and a human father, would I be a half-halfling or a threequarterling? |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
573 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2007 : 17:01:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Talanfir Swiftfeet
I'm interested in how spells work. here's a few I've been thinking. If you can help or have similar dilemmas please don't be afraid to post.
TELEPORTATION
As mr Newton explained a moving object has kinetic energy. If said object is teleported, is the kinetic energy absorbed by the spell. For those who have no idea what I'm talking about here's the english version.
A mage falls from his/hers flying mount. He/She falls a hundred feet before managing to teleport to the ground. Does he/she get damaged from the fall.
If so then a character who is teleported while charging would trip because his/her feet would be in an akward position while the movement is taken away.. What about other spells that shift you from one place to another like Gate or dimensional door.
The short answer is: its magic! This simple two-word phrase explains any discrepency between the D&D world and the Real world. This answer has been endorsed by The Sage (not our Sage but THE Sage) in his column in Dragon Magazine. The laws of physics don't apply to D&D except for in the most superficial ways. The specific instance that I remember was a DM that had ruled that Freedom of Movement suspended friction for the character under its effect.
The longer answer is that it doesn't seem to work that way in Star Trek when people get "beamed." So again, I would say that it does not work.
quote:
Originally posted by Talanfir Swiftfeet
ZONE OF CLEAR AIR (or what is that spell called)
Rules state that invisibility has no effect on creatures with a good sense of smell. Does a zone of clear air or a spell that controls the direction of the wind make you invisible to these creatures.
Creatures with explicitly keen senses of smell are able to detect invisible creatures because they have a sense that the spell does not account for. They are not able to SEE where the invisible creature is, but they can SMELL where the creature is. Presuming that they also have fully functioning eyes, simply creating a zone of clear air would not make you invisible any more so than invisiblity makes you unsmellable. The combination of the two spells would make you both invisible AND unsmellable, but you would still be feelable, tasteable, hearable, and thinkable (for those telepaths among us).
So if you're looking for total undetectability try the Disentegrate spell, either on yourself or the person that you're avoiding. Its the only way to be sure. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
Edited by - WalkerNinja on 30 May 2007 17:19:20 |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2007 : 17:50:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Talanfir Swiftfeet
I'm interested in how spells work. here's a few I've been thinking. If you can help or have similar dilemmas please don't be afraid to post.
Repeat 3 times after me aloud :
D&D is NOT a "generic fantasy world simulator", D&D IS a Role-Playing Game. |
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Talanfir Swiftfeet
Learned Scribe
Finland
143 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2007 : 18:54:51
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quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
The short answer is: its magic!
What I was asking was an either/or question. Either the motion continues or it doesn't. It's magic doesn't explain an either/or question. |
I am Talanfir Swiftfeet. (In)famous across the Swoardcoast as "Tal the Swift", Brandobaris´ seraph of mischief. If ye find yer shoelaces tied together while trying to catch a thief or meet a king who is angry because somebody switched the places of his chamberpot and his crown, ye can usually (try to) find me near.
If I had a halfling mother and a human father, would I be a half-halfling or a threequarterling? |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2007 : 19:36:55
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That's a good question, actually. I've thought about it myself, and what I've come up with from a physics point of view is that a teleport spell creates something along the lines of a personal mini-wormhole. My best guess would be that it does put a stop to any kinetic energy (movement) when activating the spell, but that energy wouldn't be enough to power the spell itself (since even if a person was falling at terminal velocity, it would be only on the order of kilojoules). That power comes from the Weave, and the energy in the fall is absorbed into the Weave.
But bear in mind, that's just my best guess. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2007 : 19:39:38
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A mage teleporting to surface, does not retain forward falling motion. S/he/it appears stationary at point traveled to.
Wind of course effects scent, if creature is upwind it is harder to catch a scent. However distance applies as well, being upwind and two foot away from traget scent could be strong enough to be detected.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2007 : 20:08:05
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Hello-
I agree with Calrond. The Weave just absorbs excess energy, as well as some other, lesser effects. the Weave also Calmly fills in the area with what was there - air, or water perhaps - so as to avoid a 'pop' when the air rushes in to fill the void.
Certain Magics will not allow you to say - enter a solid object using them - but displacing you nearby to wherever is 'safe' (or, not solid!) this is the Weave at work.
As far as the scent issue kentinmal has it correct in my opinion.
there is a neat example in the novel Son of Thunder (I beleive) of the clever use of a Silence spell to thwart some attacking bats..... since the silence effectively creates a 'void', or perhaps a solid wall - depending on how they perceive that...
As far as a charging character being off-ballance - i would say that is quite possible. Gate, BTW - in my opinion works basically like a thin magical sheet - and you appear on the far side keeping stride as if you had not been moved. I beleive there are some 'teleport' or 'gate' traps that work along these premises in undermountain... :)
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2007 : 21:25:36
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Nice use of a Silence spell. If a bat tried to use his squeaks on an area with a silence spell, it would 'look' to him like an infinitely long tunnel sticking straight away from him along the same line as the center of the effected area. He'd still 'see' the walls that aren't between him and the spell area, but the ones on the other side would be invisible to him.
And if he flew into the area, he'd think he was in a huge area, high above the ground, with no ceiling. Basically, he would feel like he had exited the universe. And he'd probably fly out of it and into a wall.
(The only better use of a silence spell I've ever heard of was a boulder pushed down a tunnel with a silence spell cast on it to make the adventurers believe it was an illusion. Result: TPK.) |
Edited by - Calrond on 30 May 2007 21:28:55 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2007 : 21:44:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Calrond
(The only better use of a silence spell I've ever heard of was a boulder pushed down a tunnel with a silence spell cast on it to make the adventurers believe it was an illusion. Result: TPK.)
Oh, now that is a nicely evil maneuver!   |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2007 : 21:47:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Talanfir Swiftfeet
I'm interested in how spells work. here's a few I've been thinking. If you can help or have similar dilemmas please don't be afraid to post.
TELEPORTATION
As mr Newton explained a moving object has kinetic energy. If said object is teleported, is the kinetic energy absorbed by the spell. For those who have no idea what I'm talking about here's the english version.
A mage falls from his/hers flying mount. He/She falls a hundred feet before managing to teleport to the ground. Does he/she get damaged from the fall.
If so then a character who is teleported while charging would trip because his/her feet would be in an akward position while the movement is taken away. What about other spells that shift you from one place to another like Gate or dimensional door.
(snip)
I iterate what others have written: it's magic, and the laws of physics, per definitio, don't apply. The answer to your query about the falling mage is very simple: as long as he doesn't land "high" or "low," he lands from less than 10 feet in the air and thus takes no damage. If he teleports "high," he'll take whatever damage the falling rules say that someone falling from that height would take. I have a bigger question, though: why would a falling mage use a fifth level spell instead of Feather Fall, Fly or Levitate, which are all lower level spells? If the "flying mount" is the mage's own, and he has no contingency plan for falling off of it safely, he's an idiot and the world will be a safer place with him dead!
As for someone Teleported while in motion, I would allow Mr. Newton his day and have him continue in motion on the other side. Such an occurence would be extremely rare, though: most of the time you'll either be standing still or just walking when using a means of extra-dimensional transport.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2007 : 21:50:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Calrond
Nice use of a Silence spell. If a bat tried to use his squeaks on an area with a silence spell, it would 'look' to him like an infinitely long tunnel sticking straight away from him along the same line as the center of the effected area. He'd still 'see' the walls that aren't between him and the spell area, but the ones on the other side would be invisible to him.
And if he flew into the area, he'd think he was in a huge area, high above the ground, with no ceiling. Basically, he would feel like he had exited the universe. And he'd probably fly out of it and into a wall.
(The only better use of a silence spell I've ever heard of was a boulder pushed down a tunnel with a silence spell cast on it to make the adventurers believe it was an illusion. Result: TPK.)
Clever. Very, very clever! And scientifically correct, too. It's a good way to get rid of a mage's bat familiar; make it voluntarily fly into a wall of some sort.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2007 : 05:35:46
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I'd say that part of the spell was an aspect that negated momentum. There is nothing that indicates momentum would remain, and it's not so unreasonable an occurence that an in-motion mage would try to teleport -- so I think the failure to mention momentum in the spell description is due to it not being a factor.
I'd allow momentum to carry thru the spell, though, but just in certain circumstances. A wild mage may have it happen, on a wild surge roll. A mage casting the spell under unusually extreme circumstances (like falling off of a spelljammer) may flub the spell and not negate the momentum. Or a mage may get a copy of the spell that was deliberately weakened -- some casting time shaved off by omitting the momentum-negating aspect, for example. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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SiCK_Boy
Acolyte
Canada
40 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2007 : 14:08:16
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I have a question about that Silence/Bat thing. (If this is considered too off-topic, just tell me, I'll open a new post)
Wouldn't the bat realize it is in a Silence zone from the fact that it doesn't hear its own voice as it goes out of its mouth? (The same principle applies to anything trying to speak inside a Silence zone)
I mean, when a character is in a Silence zone and speaks, he must realize something is weird not only because he doesn't get echo from the surrounding environment, but also because he doesn't hear is own voice while still feeling his body speaking. Speaking isn't just moving one's lips, but it also implies some vibration of the vocal apparatus that is surely felt by the speaker, even in a minimal way.
I'm not refering to the case of the bat outside the Silence zone that would believe it to be an infinite corridor (although since the sound can't get into the Silence zone, we could maybe argue that it bounces back and the bat thinks it's a wall), but the case of a bat already inside a Silence zone. |
Edited by - SiCK_Boy on 31 May 2007 14:11:41 |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2007 : 16:49:22
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I thought about that, SiCK_Boy, but if the bat's not in the zone, he'll only know that the sound isn't echoing from that direction. If the bat is in the zone, he won't hear his own 'voice', true. However, by definition, the bat as an animal has an INT score of either 1 or 2 and no higher. While he might get the feeling that something isn't right, he wouldn't know that he's in a spell-affected area and that he's in danger.
Now a really mean trick would be to cast silence on the bat itself. Then it would almost definitely panic and fly into a wall. I could imagine an inexperienced wizard casting silence on his own bat familiar to help it fly silently (maybe there are owls in the area that would hear it and kill it?). That would be an interesting gaming session, and the look on his face when his bat panics and flies into the wall would be priceless. |
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Physics of magics
