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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6154 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2021 :  05:11:25  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
In the dramatis personae in Relentless, Bruenor Battlehammer is described as the thirteenth king of Mithral Hall, as well as the eighth and tenth. On my reading of the novels, when he came back as Reginald Roundshield and then declared himself to be Bruenor reborn, he never claimed the throne of Mithral Hall again - deferring to King Connerad. He does become the third king of Gauntlgrym but why is he described as the thirteenth king of Mithral Hall in Relentless?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Kentinal
Great Reader

4578 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2021 :  07:25:44  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Bruenor_Battlehammer offers this
quote:
Bruenor Battlehammer was the eighth, tenth, and thirteenth king of Mithral Hall from 1356 DR to 1362 DR and 1370 DR to 1409 DR.


He left, came back, then came back again it appears.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5537 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2021 :  09:10:06  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not read the novel (cant seem to get past the 3rd cadderley novel), but it could be a vacuous claim based on nothing more than he sees himself as the 13th king.

Look at Gilgeam of Unther who had many titles he had awarded to himself that claimed rulership over many far flung places.

My reading of Bruenor is that he is not a nice person and quite possibly psychotic so it's quite in keeping for his version of reality to be different to everyone elses (though he might kill any that disagree openly with him). Thus he claims the 13th king of Mithril hall as a title but nobody else does.

Just a thought, but situations like that were not unknown in real life for a ruler to have a title that implied sovereignty over a land that he did not in fact own.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6154 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2021 :  16:58:16  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've asked R A Salvatore on Twitter if he can shed some light on it. Hoping for a response.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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PattPlays
Learned Scribe

280 Posts

Posted - 09 Feb 2021 :  09:49:23  Show Profile  Visit PattPlays's Homepage Send PattPlays a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Not read the novel (cant seem to get past the 3rd cadderley novel), but it could be a vacuous claim based on nothing more than he sees himself as the 13th king.

Look at Gilgeam of Unther who had many titles he had awarded to himself that claimed rulership over many far flung places.

My reading of Bruenor is that he is not a nice person and quite possibly psychotic so it's quite in keeping for his version of reality to be different to everyone elses (though he might kill any that disagree openly with him). Thus he claims the 13th king of Mithril hall as a title but nobody else does.

Just a thought, but situations like that were not unknown in real life for a ruler to have a title that implied sovereignty over a land that he did not in fact own.



Bruenor has psychological issues related to power, trust, and standing. Good to know for if I ever have to run him during my Rage of Demons games.

:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, RIP Pluto: :IRC lives:


https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com

T_P_T
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10106 Posts

Posted - 09 Feb 2021 :  19:06:14  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Not read the novel (cant seem to get past the 3rd cadderley novel), but it could be a vacuous claim based on nothing more than he sees himself as the 13th king.

Look at Gilgeam of Unther who had many titles he had awarded to himself that claimed rulership over many far flung places.

My reading of Bruenor is that he is not a nice person and quite possibly psychotic so it's quite in keeping for his version of reality to be different to everyone elses (though he might kill any that disagree openly with him). Thus he claims the 13th king of Mithril hall as a title but nobody else does.

Just a thought, but situations like that were not unknown in real life for a ruler to have a title that implied sovereignty over a land that he did not in fact own.



Bruenor has psychological issues related to power, trust, and standing. Good to know for if I ever have to run him during my Rage of Demons games.



So.... Bruenor is your typical dwarf then

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4086 Posts

Posted - 09 Feb 2021 :  23:23:31  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What makes him psychotic?

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10106 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2021 :  00:23:26  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

What makes him psychotic?



lack of dwarven females.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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PattPlays
Learned Scribe

280 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2021 :  02:39:00  Show Profile  Visit PattPlays's Homepage Send PattPlays a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

What makes him psychotic?



lack of dwarven females.


So.. a lack of an author writing about dwarven females then.

:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, RIP Pluto: :IRC lives:


https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com

T_P_T
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3552 Posts

Posted - 18 Feb 2021 :  03:27:45  Show Profile Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

What makes him psychotic?



lack of dwarven females.



He has 2 dwarven wives...... twins I believe ..... thatíll drive ya crazy

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963

Edited by - The Red Walker on 18 Feb 2021 03:28:14
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PattPlays
Learned Scribe

280 Posts

Posted - 18 Feb 2021 :  09:28:00  Show Profile  Visit PattPlays's Homepage Send PattPlays a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

What makes him psychotic?



lack of dwarven females.



He has 2 dwarven wives...... twins I believe ..... thatíll drive ya crazy



Do you think they live with him in Gauntylgrym after 1487DR? Bruenor is chillin there in the rage of demons storyline but no lore on him is provided in that module.

:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, RIP Pluto: :IRC lives:


https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com

T_P_T
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1421 Posts

Posted - 05 Mar 2021 :  22:11:22  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi George,

Bruenor didn't become the 13th king of Mithral Hall. In the novel The Companions, he had intended to do so in order to fight the orcs, but the dwarven throne in Gauntlgrym rejected him because he intended to break his oath to meet with the other Companions of the Hall in Icewind Dale. After he was booted from the throne, he changed course and headed north to Drizzt and company.

Bruenor Battlehammer - 8th and 10th King of Mithral Hall.
Banak Brawnanvil - 11th King of Mithral Hall.
Connerad Brawnanvil - 12th King of Mithral Hall.
Dagnabbet Waybeard - 13th, Queen of Mithral Hall.

This is what I have for the line. Dagnabbet becomes Queen in Archmage.

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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1421 Posts

Posted - 05 Mar 2021 :  22:29:40  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I forgot to add, my copy of Relentless lists Bruenor only as the 8th and 10th King of Mithral Hall.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6154 Posts

Posted - 06 Mar 2021 :  00:12:30  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus

Hi George,

Bruenor didn't become the 13th king of Mithral Hall. In the novel The Companions, he had intended to do so in order to fight the orcs, but the dwarven throne in Gauntlgrym rejected him because he intended to break his oath to meet with the other Companions of the Hall in Icewind Dale. After he was booted from the throne, he changed course and headed north to Drizzt and company.

Bruenor Battlehammer - 8th and 10th King of Mithral Hall.
Banak Brawnanvil - 11th King of Mithral Hall.
Connerad Brawnanvil - 12th King of Mithral Hall.
Dagnabbet Waybeard - 13th, Queen of Mithral Hall.

This is what I have for the line. Dagnabbet becomes Queen in Archmage.





Yes, that's exactly as I have it in my "Mithral Hall" lineage. I haven't bought the last trilogy of Drizzt novels so I was wondering if they were the cause of the reference.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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