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ElfBane
Learned Scribe
USA
275 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Jun 2010 : 18:32:55
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...on Toril? Post-Spellplague Toril has Faerun and returned Abeir and what else? Canon please, if possible. And if the knowledge is unavailable, does anyone know when/if WoTC will let us know? TIA.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2010 : 21:48:54
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Zakhara and kara-Tur still exist, but if they were changed, and how so, we do not know. The designers left those areas open for possible future campaign expansions (perhaps an Oriental Adventures or Arabian Adventures sourcebook), and had no concrete plans for them as of the release of 4e.
Maztica is definitely gone - it was transposed with Laerakond (Returned Abeir).
Evermeet as we know it is gone - just a barren 'wasteland' left in its place. HOWEVER, it still exists (ostensibly intact) in the Feywild, and AFAIK is still linked to its Faerunian counterpart in some way.
Nimbral 'vanished' - fate unknown (could simply be invisible).
The Hordelands are still there, but obviously changed (the Dragonwall is gone), if not physically, then at-least politically (I believe Semphar and Mulhorand are both Dragon Realms now, but I could be mistaken).
The Underdark underwent as many changes as the surface, but AFAIK very little of those changes were detailed (except the weirdness with the Drow/Dark Elves/Green Elves now). Considering entire surface Realms were replaced with Abeiran regions, the subterranean areas below them must have changed as well.
No info on Malatra: The Living Jungle region.
No info on Anchorome or Osse, and as far as anyone knows they are unchanged (would we even know if they changed?)
No info on Katashaka either, or any of the rather large 'Islands' (really sub-continents).
Oh... and Chult is now one of those 'Uber-islands' - it is no longer part of the mainland.
That's all I got... sorry.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Jun 2010 21:49:35 |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2010 : 12:14:19
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I've gotta ask a noob question here... what exactly is "Abeir"? And what does it mean? Diference betweene Abeir- Toril and Toril?
Sorry for the noobish question! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2010 : 15:14:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
I've gotta ask a noob question here... what exactly is "Abeir"? And what does it mean? Diference betweene Abeir- Toril and Toril?
Sorry for the noobish question!
Here's the relevant quote from Jeff Grubb, the original traffic cop of the Realms:
quote:
A lot of my regulars were immortalized in one way or the other in stuff that I have written over the years. The name of my old campaign, I mentioned, was Toril, which became the name of the Forgotten Realms' planet. Ansalon's planet, Krynn, was named after my sister-in-law, Corrine.
Faerun was the name of the continent Ed's original campaign was set on, but Ed had no name for the planet itself. I looted the name Toril from my own campaign for the world. When we did the original grey box, we did all the entries in alphabetical order. It made sense to put something about the world itself FIRST, so I tacked on the Abeir title before it so it world fall at the beginning of the catalog.
I remember mentioning elsewhere that the Abeir-Toril title means "cradle of life" in an archaic tongue. While I never stated which was which, I always assumed that "toril" was the word for life and "abeir" was the word for originator, cradle, or home.
Finally, as a note, Toril was not my original name for my campaign back in '75 - it was Toricandra, influenced by CS Lewis. Toril quickly became the shorthand I used, and eventually took over entirely.
So Abeir-Toril and Toril originally meant the same thing: the world the Realms was on. Toril saw a lot more use than Abeir-Toril, though, and in most places where the planet is mentioned, it's just called Toril.
The whole thing about Abeir being its own separate world is one of the retcons of 4E. Before 4E, there wasn't even a hint about Abeir being a separate world -- it was just an archaic name for the same world that the Realms was on. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 27 Jun 2010 15:25:52 |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2010 : 18:52:49
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In 4E parlance, Abeir and Toril were all one world in the beginning.
That world was severed in two that it might be saved from the ravages of the great war between the Primordials and the gods. Dominion over Abeir was taken by the Primordials, the gods Abeir.
It was the Spellplague that caused the lines between the two worlds to blur and overlap. The end result was that up to ¼ of Abeir's land mass was transplanted to Toril.
Of this, the lands of Akanūl and Tymanther are the most significant transplants onto the continent of Faerūn. It is unknown (to me, at least) what other lands of Abeir are now located on other extant continents of Toril.
The largest known Abeirian landmass now located on Toril is the continent called "Returned Abeir" by native Faerūnians. It's located well west of the Trackless Sea. |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
729 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2010 : 08:35:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Maztica is definitely gone - it was transposed with Laerakond (Returned Abeir).
That is a fallacy. "Laerakond" and Returned Abeir is not the same thing. In the "Questions for Ed Greenwood (2008)" (page 64), Ed says this:quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One (emphasis mine)
If using it as part of a new, non-Faerūnian setting, Id call it Laerakond [pronounced L-AIR-ah-KON-d].
I settled on the sounds of that coined name because they are different from the softer, more Celtic-green-and-pleasant-fantasy-Sherwood feel of much of the most loved areas of Faerūn; if youd prefer to echo that look and feel, call it something like Tarathdeon, instead.
I've seen a lot of scribes use the two terms interchangeably, but it is clearly not correct, and "Laerakond" is not a part of the canonical Realms. |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 19:31:14
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Since the question asked was "what did the Abeirans call it?", then Laerakond is applicable. Abeir was a different world, and by default, a different setting.
I posed this question to Richard baker as well, and he thought it was kind of weird that no 'real' name was ever given for the land - certainly the inhabitants wouldn't be calling it 'Returned Abeir'. He said to go ask Ed Greenewood.
When I quoted Ed's response to the question, Rich said something to the order of "I'd go with Laerakond', and that was that. He's an official designer, and that statement was made on the WotC site, in the "Ask the designers" thread. So while it is technically true that it is not 100% canon, it is as close as something can come without being actual canon.
If you want, you could just as easily say the surviving Mazticans (since obviously RA could NOT have replaced the whole thing) named it Laerakond (which in there language means "where the hell did that come from?"), and the Faerunians call it Tarathdeon (which in Evermeet Elven means "damned if I know"). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Jun 2010 19:32:20 |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
729 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 08:54:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Since the question asked was "what did the Abeirans call it?", then Laerakond is applicable. Abeir was a different world, and by default, a different setting.
No. The question asked was:
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One (emphasis mine)
Hello again, all. I bring you the words of Ed, in response to Faraers recent query: Ed, If one was to use the FRCG's 'Abeir' under another name and as part of another world from Toril, what might that name be, and what other advice would you give?
Most scribes simply inferred that native Abeirans called it "Laerakond." And thus the 'urban myth' was born, regardless of what Rich may have said about it. I have yet to find an official (i.e. sourcebook, preview, web-enhancement or DDI) reference to "Laerakond," since native Torilians, and more specifically native Faerūnians, call it "Returned Abeir."
Now, I'm not disputing the fact that those Abeirans native to "Returned Abeir" would most certainly not call it that, but "Laerakond" is definitely not the canonical name they have for it. Ed was giving advice on what to perhaps call it in a homebrew (Krynn, Greyhawk, vanilla D&D, Kyrene's World, Abeir, or even non-canonical Toril) setting, even coming up with the alternative "Tarathdeon" name.
However, I do propose we "Ask Ed" about what Abeirans call/ed "Returned Abeir" to canonise it (if NDAs would allow him). I would certainly be happy with whatever he then calls it, but stand by my current view that "Laerakond" = "Returned Abeir" is a fallacy.  |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Edited by - Kyrene on 30 Jun 2010 08:57:46 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2017 : 10:24:28
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| Seems like a powerful necromantic spell, but... Laerakond is the official/canon name of the continent, according to the article "Winking Eyes of Rhauron" (Dungeon 193). |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2017 : 15:34:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Zakhara and kara-Tur still exist, but if they were changed, and how so, we do not know. The designers left those areas open for possible future campaign expansions (perhaps an Oriental Adventures or Arabian Adventures sourcebook), and had no concrete plans for them as of the release of 4e.
The hint about an update for Zakhara has me drooling. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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Thoth
Acolyte
Canada
31 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2017 : 16:32:54
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| It would be nice to get a book or article on that, but probably not in the near future. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2017 : 01:07:14
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| Anything's possible ... but "the near future" has already been delayed by at least one edition and seven years. Old Zakhara has served me well enough thus faf - especially since it's been established as a stable and consistent region (compared vs most of Faerun, lol) - New Zakhara may never arrive or may simply be too little too late. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Portuguese D. Ace
Seeker
Italy
82 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2017 : 14:53:47
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| what's the source of Maztica's disappearance? |
Please, bring back the Realms. I'm really fed up with the Sword Coast.
===== Since English is not my first language, I pre-emptively apologize for any (grammar) mistake that has been made in my post. In order to help me improve my English, please, point out those mistakes (If you could do it politely, it would be even better!). Thanks! ===== |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2017 : 17:26:28
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The 4th edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide. During the Spellplague, Maztica was sent to Abeir, while the abeiran continent of Laerakond was sent to Toril.
5e sources imply Maztica has returned to Toril during the Second Sundering, but without details about it. Regardless, this means Maztica expend 100 years in another world, an hostile world if I may add, and so must have been changed. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 23 Mar 2017 17:29:18 |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2020 : 07:53:57
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Learned Scribe ElfBane,
As you can see in 2020, it is still a 100 year gap with practically nothing there, and likely not a lot to come in terms of lore. The more they reduce the lore, the easier it is to get more people into and the easier money is made for WotC.
Sad, but seemingly true.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane
...on Toril? Post-Spellplague Toril has Faerun and returned Abeir and what else? Canon please, if possible. And if the knowledge is unavailable, does anyone know when/if WoTC will let us know? TIA.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2020 : 10:54:13
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| Seriously? You updated a three year old discussion to say "there's no answer and WotC sucks"? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2020 : 13:55:44
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Oh by Moradin's Beard somethings never change! |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 03 Mar 2020 13:56:03 |
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe
USA
275 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2020 : 15:52:01
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Well, I'm probably gonna get spanked for this, but someone's gotta say it, even if it costs me a temporary ban;
I think "cpthero2" is spamming for Rank. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2020 : 03:08:08
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quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane
Well, I'm probably gonna get spanked for this, but someone's gotta say it, even if it costs me a temporary ban;
I think "cpthero2" is spamming for Rank.
Your probably right... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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What is still left...
