Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Realmslore
 Sages of Realmslore
 What is still left...
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

ElfBane
Seeker

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 26 Jun 2010 :  18:32:55  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
...on Toril? Post-Spellplague Toril has Faerun and returned Abeir and what else? Canon please, if possible. And if the knowledge is unavailable, does anyone know when/if WoTC will let us know? TIA.

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14023 Posts

Posted - 26 Jun 2010 :  21:48:54  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Zakhara and kara-Tur still exist, but if they were changed, and how so, we do not know. The designers left those areas open for possible future campaign expansions (perhaps an Oriental Adventures or Arabian Adventures sourcebook), and had no concrete plans for them as of the release of 4e.

Maztica is definitely gone - it was transposed with Laerakond (Returned Abeir).

Evermeet as we know it is gone - just a barren 'wasteland' left in its place. HOWEVER, it still exists (ostensibly intact) in the Feywild, and AFAIK is still linked to its Faerunian counterpart in some way.

Nimbral 'vanished' - fate unknown (could simply be invisible).

The Hordelands are still there, but obviously changed (the Dragonwall is gone), if not physically, then at-least politically (I believe Semphar and Mulhorand are both Dragon Realms now, but I could be mistaken).

The Underdark underwent as many changes as the surface, but AFAIK very little of those changes were detailed (except the weirdness with the Drow/Dark Elves/Green Elves now). Considering entire surface Realms were replaced with Abeiran regions, the subterranean areas below them must have changed as well.

No info on Malatra: The Living Jungle region.

No info on Anchorome or Osse, and as far as anyone knows they are unchanged (would we even know if they changed?)

No info on Katashaka either, or any of the rather large 'Islands' (really sub-continents).

Oh... and Chult is now one of those 'Uber-islands' - it is no longer part of the mainland.

That's all I got... sorry.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 26 Jun 2010 21:49:35
Go to Top of Page

Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1074 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2010 :  12:14:19  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've gotta ask a noob question here... what exactly is "Abeir"? And what does it mean? Diference betweene Abeir- Toril and Toril?

Sorry for the noobish question!
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30204 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2010 :  15:14:36  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander

I've gotta ask a noob question here... what exactly is "Abeir"? And what does it mean? Diference betweene Abeir- Toril and Toril?

Sorry for the noobish question!



Here's the relevant quote from Jeff Grubb, the original traffic cop of the Realms:

quote:
A lot of my regulars were immortalized in one way or the other in stuff that I have written over the years. The name of my old campaign, I mentioned, was Toril, which became the name of the Forgotten Realms' planet. Ansalon's planet, Krynn, was named after my sister-in-law, Corrine.

Faerun was the name of the continent Ed's original campaign was set on, but Ed had no name for the planet itself. I looted the name Toril from my own campaign for the world. When we did the original grey box, we did all the entries in alphabetical order. It made sense to put something about the world itself FIRST, so I tacked on the Abeir title before it so it world fall at the beginning of the catalog.

I remember mentioning elsewhere that the Abeir-Toril title means "cradle of life" in an archaic tongue. While I never stated which was which, I always assumed that "toril" was the word for life and "abeir" was the word for originator, cradle, or home.

Finally, as a note, Toril was not my original name for my campaign back in '75 - it was Toricandra, influenced by CS Lewis. Toril quickly became the shorthand I used, and eventually took over entirely.


So Abeir-Toril and Toril originally meant the same thing: the world the Realms was on. Toril saw a lot more use than Abeir-Toril, though, and in most places where the planet is mentioned, it's just called Toril.

The whole thing about Abeir being its own separate world is one of the retcons of 4E. Before 4E, there wasn't even a hint about Abeir being a separate world -- it was just an archaic name for the same world that the Realms was on.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 27 Jun 2010 15:25:52
Go to Top of Page

Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe

545 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2010 :  18:52:49  Show Profile Send Mr_Miscellany a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In 4E parlance, Abeir and Toril were all one world in the beginning.

That world was severed in two that it might be saved from the ravages of the great war between the Primordials and the gods. Dominion over Abeir was taken by the Primordials, the gods Abeir.

It was the Spellplague that caused the lines between the two worlds to blur and overlap. The end result was that up to ¼ of Abeir's land mass was transplanted to Toril.

Of this, the lands of Akanûl and Tymanther are the most significant transplants onto the continent of Faerûn. It is unknown (to me, at least) what other lands of Abeir are now located on other extant continents of Toril.

The largest known Abeirian landmass now located on Toril is the continent called "Returned Abeir" by native Faerûnians. It's located well west of the Trackless Sea.
Go to Top of Page

Kyrene
Senior Scribe

South Africa
648 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2010 :  08:35:27  Show Profile  Visit Kyrene's Homepage Send Kyrene a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Maztica is definitely gone - it was transposed with Laerakond (Returned Abeir).

That is a fallacy. "Laerakond" and Returned Abeir is not the same thing. In the "Questions for Ed Greenwood (2008)" (page 64), Ed says this:
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One (emphasis mine)

If using it as part of a new, non-Faerûnian setting, I’d call it “Laerakond” [pronounced “L-AIR-ah-KON-d”].
I settled on the ‘sounds’ of that coined name because they are different from the softer, more Celtic-green-and-pleasant-fantasy-Sherwood ‘feel’ of much of the most loved areas of Faerûn; if you’d prefer to echo that look and feel, call it something like “Tarathdeon,” instead.

I've seen a lot of scribes use the two terms interchangeably, but it is clearly not correct, and "Laerakond" is not a part of the canonical Realms.

Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms

I am a sexy, shoeless god of war!

The Sellplague began, for all intents and purposes, in the dominions of the Corporation. Greed murdered Good Design, unraveling common sense in the cosmos and destroying her dominion. At the same time, Sales Fears and Warcraft Envy happened into alignment. This cataclysmic coincidence led to upheaval, shaking apart the primeval order, opening up holes in wallets, and reshaping everything...
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14023 Posts

Posted - 29 Jun 2010 :  19:31:14  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Since the question asked was "what did the Abeirans call it?", then Laerakond is applicable. Abeir was a different world, and by default, a different setting.

I posed this question to Richard baker as well, and he thought it was kind of weird that no 'real' name was ever given for the land - certainly the inhabitants wouldn't be calling it 'Returned Abeir'. He said to go ask Ed Greenewood.

When I quoted Ed's response to the question, Rich said something to the order of "I'd go with Laerakond', and that was that. He's an official designer, and that statement was made on the WotC site, in the "Ask the designers" thread. So while it is technically true that it is not 100% canon, it is as close as something can come without being actual canon.

If you want, you could just as easily say the surviving Mazticans (since obviously RA could NOT have replaced the whole thing) named it Laerakond (which in there language means "where the hell did that come from?"), and the Faerunians call it Tarathdeon (which in Evermeet Elven means "damned if I know").

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 29 Jun 2010 19:32:20
Go to Top of Page

Kyrene
Senior Scribe

South Africa
648 Posts

Posted - 30 Jun 2010 :  08:54:02  Show Profile  Visit Kyrene's Homepage Send Kyrene a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Since the question asked was "what did the Abeirans call it?", then Laerakond is applicable. Abeir was a different world, and by default, a different setting.

No. The question asked was:
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One (emphasis mine)

Hello again, all. I bring you the words of Ed, in response to Faraer’s recent query: “Ed, If one was to use the FRCG's 'Abeir' under another name and as part of another world from Toril, what might that name be, and what other advice would you give?”

Most scribes simply inferred that native Abeirans called it "Laerakond." And thus the 'urban myth' was born, regardless of what Rich may have said about it. I have yet to find an official (i.e. sourcebook, preview, web-enhancement or DDI) reference to "Laerakond," since native Torilians, and more specifically native Faerûnians, call it "Returned Abeir."

Now, I'm not disputing the fact that those Abeirans native to "Returned Abeir" would most certainly not call it that, but "Laerakond" is definitely not the canonical name they have for it. Ed was giving advice on what to perhaps call it in a homebrew (Krynn, Greyhawk, vanilla D&D, Kyrene's World, Abeir, or even non-canonical Toril) setting, even coming up with the alternative "Tarathdeon" name.

However, I do propose we "Ask Ed" about what Abeirans call/ed "Returned Abeir" to canonise it (if NDAs would allow him). I would certainly be happy with whatever he then calls it, but stand by my current view that "Laerakond" = "Returned Abeir" is a fallacy.

Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms

I am a sexy, shoeless god of war!

The Sellplague began, for all intents and purposes, in the dominions of the Corporation. Greed murdered Good Design, unraveling common sense in the cosmos and destroying her dominion. At the same time, Sales Fears and Warcraft Envy happened into alignment. This cataclysmic coincidence led to upheaval, shaking apart the primeval order, opening up holes in wallets, and reshaping everything...

Edited by - Kyrene on 30 Jun 2010 08:57:46
Go to Top of Page

Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
656 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2017 :  10:24:28  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Seems like a powerful necromantic spell, but... Laerakond is the official/canon name of the continent, according to the article "Winking Eyes of Rhauron" (Dungeon 193).

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
Go to Top of Page

Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3052 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2017 :  15:34:45  Show Profile  Visit Artemas Entreri's Homepage Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Zakhara and kara-Tur still exist, but if they were changed, and how so, we do not know. The designers left those areas open for possible future campaign expansions (perhaps an Oriental Adventures or Arabian Adventures sourcebook), and had no concrete plans for them as of the release of 4e.



The hint about an update for Zakhara has me drooling.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

Check out my eBay store for great Realms/Dragonlance/Ravenloft/Dark Sun/etc series! http://stores.ebay.com/Remembered-Realms-and-Hobbies

Be my friend on Goodreads.com: http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/6751111-brian
Go to Top of Page

Thoth
Seeker

Canada
27 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2017 :  16:32:54  Show Profile Send Thoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It would be nice to get a book or article on that, but probably not in the near future.
Go to Top of Page

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6263 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2017 :  01:07:14  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Anything's possible ... but "the near future" has already been delayed by at least one edition and seven years. Old Zakhara has served me well enough thus faf - especially since it's been established as a stable and consistent region (compared vs most of Faerun, lol) - New Zakhara may never arrive or may simply be too little too late.

[/Ayrik]
Go to Top of Page

Portuguese D. Ace
Seeker

Italy
70 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2017 :  14:53:47  Show Profile Send Portuguese D. Ace a Private Message  Reply with Quote
what's the source of Maztica's disappearance?

===== Since English is not my first language, I pre-emptively apologize for any (grammar) mistake that has been made in my post. In order to help me improve my English, please, point out those mistakes (If you could do it politely, it would be even better!). Thanks! =====

BRING BACK THE REALMS, AND DO IT WITH STYLE!
Go to Top of Page

Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
656 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2017 :  17:26:28  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The 4th edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide. During the Spellplague, Maztica was sent to Abeir, while the abeiran continent of Laerakond was sent to Toril.

5e sources imply Maztica has returned to Toril during the Second Sundering, but without details about it. Regardless, this means Maztica expend 100 years in another world, an hostile world if I may add, and so must have been changed.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 23 Mar 2017 17:29:18
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2017 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000