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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 17 May 2007 : 22:26:20
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Like I said in my overinflated post (heh), I don't regret buying it. The feats and spells make sense for drow, at least some of the new monsters are interesting, and the overall psychology of the drow seems to be right in line with FR drow. That having been said, the sample city is the city in the Vault of the Drown on Oerth, and FR is actually mentioned as an aberration in there is a drow pantheon instead of just Lolth (which strikes me as strange, since the old 1st edition references to GH drow mentioned that they seemed less devoted to Lolth, though she was their main deity, and more likely to worship other demon lords and arch devils, and one of the main conflicts in the Vault of the Drow was which houses were loyal to the Elder Elemental God and which ones were loyal to Lolth).
While the book constantly mentions that its about "core" drow, in some places it falls into a sort of pattern of "generic paragraphy, generic paragraph, generic paragraph, In the Realms . . ."
One of the problems with this syndrome is that they feel like FR drow with all the FR stuff filed off of them in parts. Plus, they make a note in the monster section that all of the "In the Realms" sidebars assume that Lolth's silence hasn't ended yet. Huh?
In the Realms products its been over for over a year . . . why would they do that?
As mentioned above, the drow language section reinvents the wheel, and explains that the reason drow and elven sound different is because drow use undercommon along with their elven words. Personally I would have gone with Abyssal influencing elven, but hey, that's me.
Given how little this seemed to reference anything but one city in Greyhawk, I think they could have done a bettter job had they made it a Realms sourcebook, but then they wouldn't have gotten all of the vehement anti Realms people to buy it. I will say this . . . its about a thousand times more relevant to someone running a drow in FR than it is to someone running a drow in Eberron . . . there is almost no drow lore in this book that works with Eberrons versions of them.
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2007 : 23:20:02
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Given how little this seemed to reference anything but one city in Greyhawk, I think they could have done a bettter job had they made it a Realms sourcebook, but then they wouldn't have gotten all of the vehement anti Realms people to buy it. I will say this . . . its about a thousand times more relevant to someone running a drow in FR than it is to someone running a drow in Eberron . . . there is almost no drow lore in this book that works with Eberrons versions of them.
Have to agree with that, and some idiot DM was convincing a player in his Eberron game to get this   but I had saved the player at least temporarily, since I had got the last copy.  |
News of the Weird
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2007 : 06:04:00
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| KnightErant: help me out here... yay or nay? I'm still hesitating to buy and need a paladin-clear recommendation! |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 02:52:45
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Garbage. Garbage. Garbage.
4 designers. 2 editors.
Not a single one of them knows anything about the D&D product line apparently.
War of the Spider Queen is over. It's been over for a long time now, we're on to new things.
When I got to the campaigns & adventures section of the book and saw that the picture of Xil'etha the soulknife had the wrong color hair, the wrong color mind blade, and was carrying weapons... I was glad I didn't buy this book.
Borrow it from a friend and photocopy the feats section, get a PDF some how, buy it used in 10 years, but don't give Wizards of the Coast a penny for it. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
Edited by - SirUrza on 24 May 2007 02:53:42 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2007 : 13:23:15
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Thanks especially for your thoughts KnightErrantJR and thank you SirUrza. Having browsed the Table of Contents and this scroll to discover that some of the drow have donkey ears (these _are_ the elves that live in tunnels, aren't they?), there is a Kinslayer prestige class (isn't that the point?) and that there is a Spider Form spell I think I'll file this one as a non-essential purchase.
It's strange after enjoying the drow for so many years to decide against buying a book titled Drow of the Underdark but I feel that my version of drow is really rather different from the drow that are portrayed in this book. I would have thought that a spell that mimics the holy spider would be blasphemous. (Perhaps that's the point) However, judging from KnightErrantJR's comments it seems that all the other deities are scarcely mentioned. so I'll assume that Spider Form is a spell that a Lolthite drow is meant to cast - according to this book.
Thanks again to those who've given their thoughts. I value them because I don't have the option of browsing a real copy. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2007 : 23:53:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Thanks especially for your thoughts KnightErrantJR and thank you SirUrza. Having browsed the Table of Contents and this scroll to discover that some of the drow have donkey ears (these _are_ the elves that live in tunnels, aren't they?), there is a Kinslayer prestige class (isn't that the point?) and that there is a Spider Form spell I think I'll file this one as a non-essential purchase.
It's strange after enjoying the drow for so many years to decide against buying a book titled Drow of the Underdark but I feel that my version of drow is really rather different from the drow that are portrayed in this book. I would have thought that a spell that mimics the holy spider would be blasphemous. (Perhaps that's the point) However, judging from KnightErrantJR's comments it seems that all the other deities are scarcely mentioned. so I'll assume that Spider Form is a spell that a Lolthite drow is meant to cast - according to this book.
Thanks again to those who've given their thoughts. I value them because I don't have the option of browsing a real copy.
IMHO a much better Drow Sourcebook is Plot and Poison by Green Ronin, it is a 3.0E book though.
http://www.greenronin.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1001&Product_Code=grr1103
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News of the Weird
D20 System Reference Document
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Edited by - warlockco on 30 May 2007 23:54:03 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2007 : 21:35:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
KnightErant: help me out here... yay or nay? I'm still hesitating to buy and need a paladin-clear recommendation!
Sorry I did't respond to this sooner. I guess it would depend on what kind of D&D fan you are. I doubt any of the "In the Realms" sidebars are going to be enough to make someone say, "wow, I have to use this in my campaign."
There is a lot of "ground floor" utility, i.e. if you just need stats for a quaggoth guard or a priestess of Lolth. Some of the feats would be good for other monsters beyond drow (nearly anything with innate darkness casting abilities would do well to be able to see through them, for example, I can picture some of the "bodyguard" feats working well for battleragers defending their king or Rashemi berserkers protecting their witches).
And I did kind of like the "binder lite" warlock PrC.
But in the end, I'll put it this way. Every other monster book, from the Draconomicon through the Fiendish Codex II gave me some really cool campaign ideas to throw around, story elements, villains, etc. I read through this one and thought . . . hm . . . drow.
If you have read any FR sourcebook or novel about drow, you've probably figured out everything (and more) that the "non mechanical" part of the book has to say. Matriarchal society, matron mothers, social climbing through warfare and assasination, Lolth is a number one, etc. So you aren't missing anything there (or rather, the book is missing a lot it could have done).
Which means FR fans will likely be sold on the book based on mechanics along. And they are functional, but not inspiring. Overall, I'd give it a 60% out of 100. Its not a failure, and its useful, but its definately a far way from a "must buy." |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2007 : 22:28:12
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Cheers to all my peers!
I finally decided to go for it, despite the knowledge that it's probably substandard. Why? well, I kinda have this feeling that 4.0 will rear its ugly head soon, and have decided to buy most things 3.5 as my gaming group and I are making a stand on the current iteration of the rules... (there has been enough 3.5 stuff put out to last us for another 30 years methinks...) |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2007 : 04:58:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Why? well, I kinda have this feeling that 4.0 will rear its ugly head soon,
say it ain't so, Joe |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 10:07:03
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Page 108.
If you have this book (and yes! contrary to my earlier post I did end up buying this book), turn to page 108 and read the paragraph about Adamantine Spiders in Faerun. Apparently, Menzoberranzan was over-run by the Kiaransaleen during the Silence of Lolth. Despite my oft-professed admiration for Kiaransalee, I'm not rejoicing since of course this event clearly did not happen.
How did such an obvious mistake slip through?
Or is a hint of things to come?
Any thoughts?
Aside to moderators: If this subject has been discussed in another scroll please direct me to it. Thank you. :)
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Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 12:08:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Page 108.
If you have this book (and yes! contrary to my earlier post I did end up buying this book), turn to page 108 and read the paragraph about Adamantine Spiders in Faerun. Apparently, Menzoberranzan was over-run by the Kiaransaleen during the Silence of Lolth. Despite my oft-professed admiration for Kiaransalee, I'm not rejoicing since of course this event clearly did not happen.
How did such an obvious mistake slip through?
Or is a hint of things to come?
Any thoughts?
Aside to moderators: If this subject has been discussed in another scroll please direct me to it. Thank you. :)
Off the cuff I'm inclined to think that when someone wrote that blurb that they mistook the events in Maeremydra with Menzoberranzan, assuming that the events of "City of the Spider Queen" had to take place in THE city. Given that they keep saying that the Silence isn't over either, I wouldn't trust many of the "In Faerun" sections in that book, but that's just me. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 15:52:08
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The line I like from that blurb is "Kiaransalee's devoted swept through and toppled the ruling regime of their enemies" since it implies that the Kiaransaleen destroyed the enemies of the ruling regime. At least, that is how it reads to me.
KnightErrantJR - Yes, you're right they probably did mean Maerimydra. I guess it is easy to confuse it with Menzoberranzan. After all, one is a city that is rarely mentioned and the other has almost constant exposure.
Wooly Rupert - You're probably right.  It's ironic that it's the one thing that caught my interest in that book. The rest of it is rather disappointing. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 16:12:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
KnightErrantJR - Yes, you're right they probably did mean Maerimydra. I guess it is easy to confuse it with Menzoberranzan. After all, one is a city that is rarely mentioned and the other has almost constant exposure.
And because of its near-constant exposure, some people seem to think it's the greatest city in all of the Underdark -- despite canon statements that it's not that noteworthy of a city, even among the drow. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 19:21:41
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Why? well, I kinda have this feeling that 4.0 will rear its ugly head soon,
say it ain't so, Joe
Wow... I must be a seer or something... the 4th edition came out about a week after my post!  |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 19:23:57
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I ended up buying this book too... good feats and PrCs... cool spider-mounts and other useful/fun things.
I'm so glad 4E came out.
Now I can catch up and actually read the 3E books I've been buying over the years... (yep, no 4E core purchases for me! just FR stuff!!!) |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2007 : 00:06:57
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| Although Drow are overused now, this book I found had some usefull stuff in it Crunchwise. Hand X bow and rapier is a nice dual wielding option. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2015 : 14:39:26
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Did anyone play with derivative SLA from DotU35 - faerie fire and dancing lights turned into blur and hypnotic pattern, etc?
It looks like a cool idea, but awkward implementation.
And, ironically, one of the areas where a PrC could improve the situation. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Drow of the Underdark (2007 Product)
