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Wendolyn
Seeker
56 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Mar 2021 : 15:27:10
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Greetings sages,
As many of you know, Jhaamdath was a mighty human kingdom that existed for thousands of years over what is now the Vilhon Reach. Jhaamdath was famous for its psionic powers.
The duergar are a group of dwarves who escaped brutal enslavement at the hands of illithids. They formed multiple kingdoms, one of which being Dunspeirrin. At one point a mighty warrior queen Duerra came to Dunspeirrin and was so victorious in war she was elevated to godhood. She was particularly known for her psionic powers, and of all the grey dwarves, the dwarves of Dunspeirrin are the most reknowned for their psionic abilities.
What is interesting is that Deep Duerra existed very close to Jhaamdath (just beneath Turmish) and during the same time period (-1800 DR).
What are the odds that the most psionic human empire that ever existed, Jhaamdath, occurred at the same time and in a very similar location (one above and one below) to the most psionic dwarven empire that ever existed, the kingdom of Steel ruled by Dunspeirrin? Is it just a coincidence? Or could there be some other explanation?
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2021 : 16:09:37
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| that is an interesting proposition. and it makes me wonder if they ever got ahold of a udoxias. Also, what secrets might have been uncovered when they attacked the mindflayer city of Oryndoll "the city of Loretakers"? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 06 Mar 2021 16:13:18 |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2021 : 16:23:37
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
that is an interesting proposition. and it makes me wonder if they ever got ahold of a udoxias. Also, what secrets might have been uncovered when they attacked the mindflayer city of Oryndoll "the city of Loretakers"?
The udoxias requires the person to already have psionic abilities, right? Sleyvas, are you proposing there is something similar to the Nether Scrolls so that if a person that has no psionic abilities were to study or touch it, they would gain psionic powers? |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2021 : 18:16:26
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
that is an interesting proposition. and it makes me wonder if they ever got ahold of a udoxias. Also, what secrets might have been uncovered when they attacked the mindflayer city of Oryndoll "the city of Loretakers"?
The udoxias requires the person to already have psionic abilities, right? Sleyvas, are you proposing there is something similar to the Nether Scrolls so that if a person that has no psionic abilities were to study or touch it, they would gain psionic powers?
No, I was just wondering if they ever, just like the Jhaamdathians who were psionic, made use of a udoxias... or stole the means to make them... or anything of the sort.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2021 : 23:32:51
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The first thing that springs to mind is that there's something like the Athora there, and maybe it enhances psionics...
Or maybe it's more mundane... Maybe there's some other natural phenomenon at play that enhances psionics. Or maybe one of the creator races -- like the Sarrukh -- was in the area, tinkering with the locals, and their experimentations gave rise to psionics. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2021 : 23:50:52
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| to add in there were also the psionic yuan-ti in the area, as long as we're mentioning the sarrukh. Not sure of the history of them though... I'd have to reread it. Of course, there's also the later history of a gem dragon ruling westgate, and we've theorized in the past that there might be something to gem dragons breeding psionics into th ehumans of the region. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wendolyn
Seeker
56 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2021 : 11:27:23
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I like the idea of Deep Duerra getting a hold of a udoxia! Or possibly an Eidalar that get lost in the ground below. Did the duergar occasionally raid Jhaamdath for slaves, and captured psions or psionic artifacts? Or did Jhaamdath ever aid the duergar in their battles with Oryndoll?
Possibly the common cause is Oryndoll, in that both the duergar and Jhaamdath gained psionic knowledge from them. Another common cause could be Aboleths -- the Abolethic Sovereignty had a mighty and ancient artifact (the Dreamheart) apparently buried in Olleth, just off the coast of Turmish. Possibly there are other such ancient Aboleth artifacts around?
But I think I like the duergar getting their hands on a udoxia the most. It could also explain with Nathglaryst, the drow queen of Undraeth and historic enemy of the duergar of Dunspeirrin, attacked Hlondeth with her kobold allies in 527 DR. Hlondeth is built atop of the Jhaamdath city of Lirremar, whose preserved ruins are beneath the city still, and possibly contains a udoxia there still. Locked in a war and arms race with the kingdom of steel, Nathglaryst wants her own udoxia to even the odds. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2021 : 15:05:23
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Glad you like the idea. One of the things we had been playing with just as an idea here at one time was whether psicrystals and/or Udoxias might not be the "scales" or "teeth" or portions of bone of gem dragons. Since we don't even really have a physical description of them, it could be fun to theorize what made them up. Maybe even a petrified gem dragon or some other petrified psionic creature (mind flayer, aboleth, etc..), with some medusas or somesuch responsible for their "flash" creation.
On Oryndoll, yeah, that's kind of where I was going with them being the city of loretakers in my mind as well (that both cultures may have encountered and gotten information FROM them). Noting that the mind flayers of Oryndoll were so into creating new ceremorphs that perhaps THEY had uncovered a piece of the golden skin of the world serpent from the creator races actually. Maybe we find out that the people of Jhaamdath are the result of humans modifying their own children to become more likely to be psionic with secrets from that city. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2021 : 18:46:55
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Seems like the Far Realms might have been more 'in sync' with Abeir Toril around two thousand years before 0 DR, giving rise to minor Psionic Age. Perhaps the great mother goddes of the Aboleths the Blood Queen, Piscaethces brushed along Torils crystal sphere again, leaving awakened minds in her wake during this Awakening Age.
Or maybe the illithid Loretakers tried to summoned Ilsensine or to have it take a special interest in Realmspace again, using the Udoxia as a large psi-beacon for their lord to notice oncemore. Having a race of former slaves think they have invented a new psionic artifact and having them be erected on the surface at breakneck speeds might have been their whole idea, only backfiring when the psionic siren call itself gained consciousness when interacting with Torils weave and becoming Auppenser...
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Wendolyn
Seeker
56 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2021 : 13:25:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Seems like the Far Realms might have been more 'in sync' with Abeir Toril around two thousand years before 0 DR, giving rise to minor Psionic Age. Perhaps the great mother goddes of the Aboleths the Blood Queen, Piscaethces brushed along Torils crystal sphere again, leaving awakened minds in her wake during this Awakening Age.
Or maybe the illithid Loretakers tried to summoned Ilsensine or to have it take a special interest in Realmspace again, using the Udoxia as a large psi-beacon for their lord to notice oncemore. Having a race of former slaves think they have invented a new psionic artifact and having them be erected on the surface at breakneck speeds might have been their whole idea, only backfiring when the psionic siren call itself gained consciousness when interacting with Torils weave and becoming Auppenser...
These are great ideas. It does seem like something effects early Jhaamdath from "the outside." According to BRJ in the GHotR, during the second decade of Jhaamdath's capital Naarkolyth, 'a new kind of innate magic began to spread among the citizenry, touching peasant and noble alike.' It seems kind of strange that this psionic magic would begin spreading all at once, less than twenty years after the capitol is founded. Presumably there is some outside cause, but the million dollar question is what?
I think you hit on two great hypotheses. The first is the influence of aboleths. The second is the influence of mind flayers. A third hypothesis, mentioned elsewhere by Gary Dallison, is the influence of gem dragons. Possibly it could be none of the above. But the sudden psionic "awakening" of citizens and nobles alike seems like it was caused by some outside power. Maybe this power influenced Jhaam himself, the founding of Naarkolyth, the actions of of Laszik Silvermind, and/or the creation of the udoxias also. I love the idea of Auppenser's appearance thwarting the plans of whatever this outside power was also. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2021 : 01:50:02
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Or some dwarves including her were taught at Jhaamdath, and she was the best.
With open or tacit approval of Auppenser and his church, as "enemy of my enemy". |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Wendolyn
Seeker
56 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2021 : 23:58:56
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Or some dwarves including her were taught at Jhaamdath, and she was the best.
With open or tacit approval of Auppenser and his church, as "enemy of my enemy".
Deep Duerra studying with or somehow learning from the psiarchs in Jhaamdath would make a lot of sense. Surely there should be some crossover between the two psionically advanced societies that lived on top of each other for thousands of years. Possibly it could have gone both ways. While a bit of a stretch, Laszik Silvermind could have been a dwarf that escaped the mindflayers of Oryndoll, having been psionically enhanced, but thousands of years before the famous Duergar rebellion.
The relationship between Jhaamdath and the illithid at Oryndoll is interesting. Possibly they were enemies, or the early humans in the area where illithid thralls before Auppenser liberated them. If Jhaamdath even knew of Oryndoll later on, probably they would be enemies, and in that case have common cause with the duergar of Dunspeirrin enemies of my enemies as you say. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2021 : 23:39:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wendolyn
The relationship between Jhaamdath and the illithid at Oryndoll is interesting. Possibly they were enemies, or the early humans in the area where illithid thralls before Auppenser liberated them. If Jhaamdath even knew of Oryndoll later on, probably they would be enemies, and in that case have common cause with the duergar of Dunspeirrin ļæ½ enemies of my enemies as you say.
Or the illithids were carefully brainwashing elven magelings for centuries and eventually this paid off?
Because "WAAGH TSUNAMI" and destroying the sea elven kingdom was retardedly reckless even compared to the rest of High Magic disasters. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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josecavalcantejunior
Acolyte
Brazil
1 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2021 : 21:04:06
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| The Abolethic Sovereignty's influence in the region is very clear and Jhaamdath seems to have been a way to combat such bad influence. Their 'balanced' philosophy, the Code of Auppenser, meditation e more stuff like this suggests some movement to use psionic power to do good and accept limits. When the expansionist tendency gradually wins, they fall. Looks like a metaphor about power and desire, which is very present in lovercraftian tales. The south of Sea of Fallen Stars, specially Vilhon and Akanūl, are maybe the most psionic colonized regions of Faerūn. Maybe gem dragons decided to oppose Abolethic Sovereignty. No doubt a good opposition includes many powers, like duergar. It's all about a fight to free from slavery, but not any enslavement, but an enslavement of the mind. It's a very nice context to build a campaign. |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
954 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2021 : 18:20:56
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Just have to say this is one of the most interesting scrolls I've seen in a while. I know I've been working on the origin of blue goblins:
Wherever there are significant goblin warrenssuch as beneath the Earthspur Mountains near Impiltura small proportion of the population will be born as blues. The goblins don't know why, but some sages of the ancient Psiocracy of Jhaamdath suspect it has something to do with the end of that empire in the Year of Furious Waves, -255 DR, when the elves of the Chondalwood drown the entire realm, creating the Vilhon Reach. At its height, there were goblin tribes within Jhaamdaath that were treated as citizens, though they lacked power in the Invisible Art. Among these scholars, it is said that the goblin god Maglubiyet was angered by what he saw as Auppenser's encroachment on his subjects, and he dispatched Skiggaret, the bugbear god of fear to infect both the people of Jhaamdaath, as well as the elves of the Chondalwood. He hoped to spark a bloody battle that would allow his goblinoids to step into the resulting power void. Things did not work quite as he hoped. The humans of Jhaamdaath became so fearful a military coup overthrew their leaders, and elves so filled with dread that they used High Magic to sink the Psiocracy.
In that moment, Auppenser, the god of psionics and patron of Jhaamdath, was almost destroyed alongside his faithful. His mental scream was heard across Faerūn and the entire cosmos, diminishing and embittering Skiggaret, but it was also accompanied by understanding. With that clarity, a small sliver of Auppenser's power, which generally manifested as an amethyst-hued force, was buried within goblins everywhere, a small sliver that Maglubiyet knew to fear himself and teach the goblins to do the same. Now when that power manifests, Auppenser's mark turns the goblin's skin violet-blue.
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2021 : 01:23:05
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Just have to say this is one of the most interesting scrolls I've seen in a while. I know I've been working on the origin of blue goblins:
Wherever there are significant goblin warrenssuch as beneath the Earthspur Mountains near Impiltura small proportion of the population will be born as blues. The goblins don't know why, but some sages of the ancient Psiocracy of Jhaamdath suspect it has something to do with the end of that empire in the Year of Furious Waves, -255 DR, when the elves of the Chondalwood drown the entire realm, creating the Vilhon Reach. At its height, there were goblin tribes within Jhaamdaath that were treated as citizens, though they lacked power in the Invisible Art. Among these scholars, it is said that the goblin god Maglubiyet was angered by what he saw as Auppenser's encroachment on his subjects, and he dispatched Skiggaret, the bugbear god of fear to infect both the people of Jhaamdaath, as well as the elves of the Chondalwood. He hoped to spark a bloody battle that would allow his goblinoids to step into the resulting power void. Things did not work quite as he hoped. The humans of Jhaamdaath became so fearful a military coup overthrew their leaders, and elves so filled with dread that they used High Magic to sink the Psiocracy.
In that moment, Auppenser, the god of psionics and patron of Jhaamdath, was almost destroyed alongside his faithful. His mental scream was heard across Faerūn and the entire cosmos, diminishing and embittering Skiggaret, but it was also accompanied by understanding. With that clarity, a small sliver of Auppenser's power, which generally manifested as an amethyst-hued force, was buried within goblins everywhere, a small sliver that Maglubiyet knew to fear himself and teach the goblins to do the same. Now when that power manifests, Auppenser's mark turns the goblin's skin violet-blue.
Just a thought, rather than making Maglubiyet at the center of the whole Jhaamdath fiasco (which may be a bit big)..... what if you keep some of the same players and alter the story some.
There was a bugbear follower of Skiggaret, as he has no priests (or an alternative idea, see later). This follower of Skiggaret learned of psionics and saw it as the perfect way to induce madness, fear, and nightmares. He stole knowledge from the Jhaamdathi people on their methods of creating the Elan. He performed psychic surgery on goblins, creating the race of blues. He gave them the ability to charm others to control their minds (instilling dread in others). He gave them the ability to assault with their minds and damage people to instill fear of their power. He instilled them with the ability to deflect blows (inertial armor) to make them seem more impossible to affect. These goblins bred true.
This follower of Skiggaret then proceeded to more powerful goblinkin (i.e. bugbears), and when he did he angered Hruggek. Hruggek was unwilling to have this threat to his power, and he killed the "bluebears". Hruggek then forbade Skiggaret from having priests, maybe?
Hruggek then turned to destroy the blues, only to have Maglubiyet look upon them and see usefulness.... and so Hruggek didn't touch the non-bugbears. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
954 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2021 : 18:37:32
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Interesting idea Sleyvas. May integrate some of that into it. Thanks.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2021 : 21:24:29
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I do prefer the idea of someone altering the goblins, and blues being the result, rather than them catching a bit of Auppenser. I like the rest of Tom's idea, just not that last part.
Perhaps the first blues were created by the Jhaamdathi as an experiment, maybe intending to use them as psionic cannon fodder. This could have been their own idea, or the outside prodding of Skiggaret or some other power. I've previously suggested a psionic version of the Athora; what if it isn't just a big psion-boosting thing, it's also got its own intelligence and motivations?
It could even be something as simple as a half-goblin/half-human that started the whole thing. Maybe a hermit Jhaamdathi hooks up with a goblin, and the result is a half-goblin who has psionics and wants to share that power with their people. So they start working behind the scenes...
Either way, after the Jhaamdathi create the blues, due to some bit of divine influence (maybe Auppenser decided to bless the goblins, or maybe it was Skiggaret's meddling), they started breeding true. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 13 Jul 2021 21:32:22 |
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Silvananthus
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2021 : 04:33:28
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These are some interesting ideas. Psionic and mind magic seems to have a strong hold in the area of the Vilhon Reach. Ghostwise halflings inhabit the Chondalwood as well in the area and have picked up telepathic communication as an ability at some point in thir history.
It may be a feature of the area as yet unexplained. It could even be the reason why so many psionic cultures have been drawn to or developed there along the Vilhon reach. Like a knot in the weave but the psionic version. |
Hail and Well met! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2021 : 22:02:41
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Hmmm, thank you Silvananthus.... I was just mentioning the ghostwise being in the chondalwood the other day and it didn't click that their psionics (which they equate to a vow to repent their evil ways) might be due to their surroundings.
Guys help me out here for a second.... what all is known to be psionic and found in this area?
Yuan-ti
the people of Jhaamdath
Duergar
mindflayers of Oryndoll
aboleths of the Abolethic Sovereignty of Xxiphu
ghostwise halflings of the Chondalwood
the gem dragon Kisonraathiisaar that comes to rule (if not created) Westgate before the fall of Jhaamdath, and is studying the secret history of dragons, the hills of seven lost gods, and the "dragon laser".... who ironically was being put into a "timeless sleep"...
Elan
(for some interesting reads see Tom Costa's articles
Blues, duergar, and Elan http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070620 and
three psionic vestiges http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070119a&dcmp=ILC-RSSDND
and the wiki on elan https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Elan )
So, some ideas that pop in my head involve Pandorym (whose body is a giant sphere of annihilation... cough > Entropy) and the idea that its "mind" is linked through the datharathi crystals, curna emeralds, and portals. So perhaps there is a portal nexus somewhere in the region that's infused the crystals nearby, and maybe this crystal is linked to udoxias and possibly gem dragons.
Second idea, there's at least 2 "vestiges" also that can be linked possibly to the area. The first is Abysm the Schismed, which is the living vestige of a "psionic mythal"... or udoxias.... and was formed at the fall of Jhaamdath by the residents of the "city of Abysm" all being absorbed into a single vestige. The second is Arete, the first Elan. So, maybe there is some "link"/"portal"/"gate" to "the place where vestiges exist", and since this is seemingly a place of the mind of sorts..... leakages from this place empower the area with psionics?
I know that's ill formed, but maybe its a start?
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2021 : 14:17:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Silvananthus
These are some interesting ideas. Psionic and mind magic seems to have a strong hold in the area of the Vilhon Reach. Ghostwise halflings inhabit the Chondalwood as well in the area and have picked up telepathic communication as an ability at some point in thir history.
It may be a feature of the area as yet unexplained.
Like, for example, having a local tradition and (local) demand for it?  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2021 : 18:04:01
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Silvananthus
These are some interesting ideas. Psionic and mind magic seems to have a strong hold in the area of the Vilhon Reach. Ghostwise halflings inhabit the Chondalwood as well in the area and have picked up telepathic communication as an ability at some point in thir history.
It may be a feature of the area as yet unexplained.
Like, for example, having a local tradition and (local) demand for it?
Across multiple groups that don't interact with one another.... he's got a point that its odd that all these groups are involved in psionics and located there when they don't exactly meet.
Whether it be gem dragon breeding experiments (such as Kisonraathiisarr and the dragonkin he's noted as being involved with in his entry in GHotR), psychic surgery by mind flayers or aboleths or even the followers of Auppenser, or something else entirely.... like a certain field affecting people, possibly from left over udoxias or something else.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2021 : 18:38:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
What if auppenser was a real being, and what it she was the one doing the breeding experiment.
HE is a real being, in the setting. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2021 : 17:32:08
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Across multiple groups that don't interact with one another.... he's got a point that its odd that all these groups are involved in psionics and located there when they don't exactly meet.
Why would they not interact? If only as "enemy of my enemy". |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2021 : 23:19:53
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Although I read Drizzt's Guide to the Underdark a long time ago and have revisited it from time to time, I can honestly say I must have skimmed it originally. One thing I am noting in rereading about Oryndoll is that it essentially has a psionic mythal
Oryndoll's greatest defense is the Invisible Bulwark, a mosaic of overlapping psionic seals that permeates the city's cavern walls. Maintained by and inexorably linked to the community's elder brain, the collective effort of generations of illithids is invisible to the naked eye, yet the individual psionic seals create an encompassing aura analogous to the effects of a mythal. Individual mind flayers are trained to draw on the Invisible Bulwark to augment their PSP totals, heal themselves, gain short-term immunities to magical and nonmagical effects, detect the presence of various intruders including undead, and draw on the accumulated lore in the Undervaults of Ilsensine. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2021 : 05:32:03
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Yep, one of Eric's more interesting ideas. But let's not call it a "mythal". Call it a "ward" or "field". That prevents confusion.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2021 : 13:55:15
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Yep, one of Eric's more interesting ideas. But let's not call it a "mythal". Call it a "ward" or "field". That prevents confusion.
-- George Krashos
Main reason I mentioned it is that we were wondering IF Jhaamdath's "udoxias" might have somehow been information passed somehow from Oryndoll. Since we don't really have all that much information on what a udoxias is, I'd say that this at least opens up that possibility. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Jhaamdath and Deep Duerra
