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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Oct 2020 : 01:37:01
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Surprised there’s no thread up about this.
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4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2020 : 03:16:19
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| -I got the remastered games for PS4 that came out last year and sadly they gave me a headache with the size and isometric view. Was very disappointed obviously. Maybe, given this is made for new consoles/technology, won't? The review I read though the story didn't sound all that great, so maybe I won't bother? |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2020 : 03:43:33
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I'm not going to play this game (for many reasons, including that--sadly--I have kinda stopped playing videogames altogether), so that's why I didn't comment.
It doesn't help that they felt the need to make a whole different drow subrace (a sub-subrace!) just to allow them to be non-evil, because the normal drow subrace can't be anything but Lolth. So much for WotC's "no fantasy racism" statement. Yes, I'm 100% sure it was WotC to force this on Larian, because they made the "good" drow subrace loyal to the Seldarine, keeping up with their puerile (and hypocritical) trend of ignoring the *one* good drow culture (Eilistraee), as well as the many nuances that the whole Dark Seldarine can bring, because of personal bias. But yeah, as long as they put their "this is racist" stamp on older books that give a much more nuanced portrayal of the drow than the current material (the 2e The Drow of the Underdark), they can be happy and pretend that they are against racism (while still engaging in massive IRL racism against their own employees, btw--which is one more reason why I won't touch anything with a WotC logo on it).
But in the end, it doesn't change much; I'm not their customer, so what I say has little to no relevance to them.
EDIT: I was wrong re: the Dark Seldarine being excluded, and that makes me pleasantly surprised. According to people who have played this beta, you can choose the Dark Seldarine as your deities when you pick a cleric. Though the name choice of "Seldarine drow" is still weird (the addition of a sub-subrace to not be evil too), and--since they said that being a drow will lead to specific interactions--it remains to be seen if any Dark Seldarine aside from Lolth will be acknowledged in game. But still, better than I thought. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 07 Oct 2020 05:18:13 |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2020 : 06:26:11
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The original Baldur's Gate 3 is infinitely more preferable to what Larian is offering. I heard that the game was roughly eighty percent completed. A shame we were never treated to it back in the day...
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https://youtu.be/kGnGOnzlC4s
^ Jump to 3:30.
quote:
... so, the chance to do that, and to bring what basically is our RPG identity to Baldur's Gate as a franchise was an opportunity too good to resist. And so, what it will do for us... uh, what we think it will do for us is it's going to show a larger segment of people, because I think Baldur's Gate 3 will reach more people than Divinity will have done... it will show a larger segment of the population what our RPGs feel like and hopefully bring them to play our other games also.
I am really not interested in a new(er) studio trying to push their identity through a beloved established series. Sadly, this only confirms my initial suspicions of BG3. The game could still be decent on its own merits, sure, but it won't be Baldur's Gate.
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
But yeah, as long as they put their "this is racist" stamp on older books that give a much more nuanced portrayal of the drow than the current material (the 2e The Drow of the Underdark)
It is infuriating when - after years of playing D&D without incident - one is suddenly called racist for preferring older gaming material; you're either branded an overt (not to mention wildly inaccurate) stereotype or defined as "unwittingly complicit" in supporting racism. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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deserk
Learned Scribe
Norway
237 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2020 : 12:26:34
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I definitely to sympathize with the concerns. I have played a little bit of the Early Access, and I personally quite like it. I liked the Divinity games but I want this game to have it's own identity and I hope Larian strives to achieve that.
Two things I'd like to see, is for them to tie this game's story with the past games, to truly give it legitimacy to it's claim as a true sequel to the BG1-2 games.
Secondly it would be great if they could involve Ed Greenwood to an extent in the story making here. Larian are for the first time dipping their feet in the Forgotten Realms, which we all certainly know is a vast complicated world. It would be great if they could consult with him in order to better understand and replicate the setting, and just to help lend authenticity to this game. One example here could also be to let him design an NPC companion for the full release of BG3. I think that would be awesome, since he would without a shadow of a doubt make a colourful and interesting character that is obviously authentic to the Realms.
I really personally would want this game to succeed as best as it can, because it's success could have a very positive influence on Forgotten Realms. It could inspire more Forgotten Realms video games, that in turn could give WotC more means to make more books and material for the FR setting.
I would love as well if Obsidian also got the chance to make a game based on their shelved Baldur's Gate III the Black Hound concept, which was quite interesting. But it wouldn't really need to be called Baldur's Gate since it had little to do with those games and it was based in the Dalelands. |
Edited by - deserk on 07 Oct 2020 12:28:05 |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2020 : 14:27:30
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| The pacing is a big concern. Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2 both slowly adjusted you to the world relative to your character's level; Larian's offering throws you into the deep end with an opening akin to a Michael Bay blockbuster. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2020 : 07:54:22
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yeah two things
1: This game is going to be one of those games that should not have been called what its name is. Baldur's Gate: Drakesong for instance( yes nothing to do with said game plot, not the point) For it to have been BG3, it would have had to continue the story of the Bhaalspawn before murder in Baldur's gate.
2: before and if I buy, I'm waiting for youtube reviews
and Irennan, on point. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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BenN
Senior Scribe
Japan
382 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2020 : 11:51:45
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I'm playing the EA, and enjoying it so far. It's beautiful (even on my 2013 hardware), I'm getting on with my companions quite well (i.e. they don't hate me), and I haven't had to kill any innocents.
The turn-based combat does take some getting used to, if you're coming from BG1/2, NWN or Dragon Age, but it's not too hard.
There are a few glitches, but the fact that there are only a few is a pleasant surprise. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2020 : 13:03:03
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It's pretty much DOS in a D&D setting, as evidenced by enemy mages with their infinite spells and every effing goblin having fire and acid bombs. The CR is sorely out of whack.
I'll be waiting for Wrath of the Righteous. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2020 : 00:49:13
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| I can't wait until the shill brigade tries their hardest to make the case that this is a Baldur's Gate game. Of course, it will sell well because not only are people gaga for Larian, but, more importantly, it has that Baldur's Gate name stamped on the front. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2020 : 04:10:19
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| Man, this place just loves to hate things. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2020 : 04:18:16
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
Man, this place just loves to hate things.
It's only some people. Me, as far as I'm concerned, if the name of the game is Baldur's Gate something, then it's a Baldur's Gate game.
That said, I've not played any of the games; I don't even have time to read everything I want to read, much less sink time into computer games. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2020 : 08:12:47
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There is plenty of legitimate criticism - seone counted an enemy caster spamming healing word 13 times in the same encounter, the infamous goblins with infite alchemist's fire, encounter balance and so on. It's a Larian game, with all the baggage, good and bad, that it brings.
Hell, there's an encounter in-game that penalizes you for winning an Intelligence check. |
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Qilintha
Seeker
76 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2020 : 13:53:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
I can't wait until the shill brigade tries their hardest to make the case that this is a Baldur's Gate game. Of course, it will sell well because not only are people gaga for Larian, but, more importantly, it has that Baldur's Gate name stamped on the front.
Larian stated that the game has deep connections with the original games, it's called BG3 for a reason. Word from the producers.
I've never met goblins with infinite alchemist fire or spamming 13 times the same spell...I'm a wizard and trust me my spells aren't infinite at all T_T And early access is made to adjust the CR soo if an encounter is too hard it will be probably fixed.
I have never bought a game in early access and I am definately not regretting buying this, awesome graphics and soundtrack, story is compelling so far. Freedom of choice as I have never seen in any RPG game.
About the drow subclasses it's because in the dialogue options your background ( seldarine or Lolth-touched) gives you different approaches to some answers. A Lolth-touched might be less merciful than a seldarine one. There is no alignment in this game so if you want to save every kitten on a tree you can do it or you can kill anything that moves, but since 5ed you can have drow raised in the Underdark in a Lolth-ruled city and drow that have been raised on the surface and the latter have obviously a different education and different answers.
Larian and WoTC have been working on this game since 2016, Descent to Avernus was created because of Bg3 in mind. I agree with deserk a successful Bg3 will put Forgotten Realms even more on the map, and maybe it'll help bring back novelization or more games.
About the NPCs both companions or not are well made...and the only FR cameo I noticed so far ( A certain explorer that wrote many guides...) was funny and with the same desire to...hyperbolize reality that Elminster often accused him of. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2020 : 17:01:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Qilintha
About the drow subclasses it's because in the dialogue options your background ( seldarine or Lolth-touched) gives you different approaches to some answers. A Lolth-touched might be less merciful than a seldarine one. There is no alignment in this game so if you want to save every kitten on a tree you can do it or you can kill anything that moves, but since 5ed you can have drow raised in the Underdark in a Lolth-ruled city and drow that have been raised on the surface and the latter have obviously a different education and different answers.
Surface drow societies , with their own detailed culture, have existed since 2e. It's really not a 5e thing--if anything, WotC tried to get rid of that over the editions, and reintroduced it in 5e because of the backlash they received.
But as I said, while I thought it was an excuse to once again downplay the Dark Seldarine like WotC has been done for years because of their personal bias (calling a drow sub-subrace "Seldarine drow" strongly suggests that), I was wrong and I'm glad of that.
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Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 11 Oct 2020 04:43:06 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2020 : 23:14:09
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| What I DREAM of is an MMORPG set in the Forgotten Realms that is on the scale of Everquest...that would be a game that would swallow me up! lol |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2020 : 06:03:32
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| You'd have to radically alter a lot of classes, so maybe looking to DDO for inspiration should be encouraged. Wizard specializations in an MMO would need an overhaul, given that necromancy, evocation and conjuration would be the easiest to MMO-fy, while divination and enchantment...not so much. |
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Qilintha
Seeker
76 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2020 : 01:41:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
I can't wait until the shill brigade tries their hardest to make the case that this is a Baldur's Gate game. Of course, it will sell well because not only are people gaga for Larian, but, more importantly, it has that Baldur's Gate name stamped on the front.
It's the tutorial opening that sort of throws you into the deep end, but as you said they're setting up a new story so it's understandable. After that you're thrown in challenges more fitting your level :goblins and stuff like that.
You're twisting Larian's words : They played the original games (they said it so so many times) but obviously they want to gave their own touch to it , meaning turn based instead of Pause-spamming for example. But the game will have connections to the original games...
If you were to write a book about Elminster would you try to copy Ed Greenwood writing style or you'd use your own? And as a writer wouldn't you hope that an Elminster novel with the audience it has would lure those readers to some of your other works? Before this game they were labeled as indie game on steam. DOS 1 and DOS2 were funded on Kickstarter. Even though DOS2 had an huge success...this IS the game that will put them on the map.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2020 : 22:21:35
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| I am here for the info lol, as I don't play video games much. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2020 : 00:39:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Qilintha
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
I can't wait until the shill brigade tries their hardest to make the case that this is a Baldur's Gate game. Of course, it will sell well because not only are people gaga for Larian, but, more importantly, it has that Baldur's Gate name stamped on the front.
It's the tutorial opening that sort of throws you into the deep end, but as you said they're setting up a new story so it's understandable. After that you're thrown in challenges more fitting your level :goblins and stuff like that.
You're twisting Larian's words : They played the original games (they said it so so many times) but obviously they want to gave their own touch to it , meaning turn based instead of Pause-spamming for example. But the game will have connections to the original games...
If you were to write a book about Elminster would you try to copy Ed Greenwood writing style or you'd use your own? And as a writer wouldn't you hope that an Elminster novel with the audience it has would lure those readers to some of your other works? Before this game they were labeled as indie game on steam. DOS 1 and DOS2 were funded on Kickstarter. Even though DOS2 had an huge success...this IS the game that will put them on the map.
Your point on style emulation has merit. That said, either the original developer team should have been brought back (in part if not fully...for various reasons) OR the next game set in The Forgotten Realms shouldn't have been titled "Baldur's Gate". Rarely do continuations crafted a decade plus later live up to their predecessor(s). While people are going to complain no matter what, I've a feeling Larian's attempt will - after the novelty has faded - be a base splitter as opposed to a base unifier: the style is off, the feeling is off (Baldur's Gate didn't borrow from Game of Thrones*, Dragon Age and Divinity: Original Sin) and it's too far removed from those beloved Infinity Engine installments.
* Specifically, the kind of nastiness to character interactions even among "heroes" that it popularized. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Qilintha
Seeker
76 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2020 : 02:08:08
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It's been proved that Infinite engine games like PoE aren't that successful compared to DoS2. The point is...those games, those series happened, they changed the landscape of fantasy (for the better or the worst), making a game the split copy of a 20 years old game didn't work either. Siege of Dragonspear a Bg1 expansion made by the same people that did the enhanced edition, several writers from original game, in Infinite Engine...wasn't nearly as successful. If the story ties in with the BG saga ( as it's been already established by Larian several times) it can be called BG3.Also Neverwinter Nights 1 and Neverwinter Nights 2 have...basically nothing in common, but I don't recall people raging about it when NwN2 came out.
I am confused what you mean by nastiness to character interactions, if you mean your companions not really liking you, it's because without delving in spoilers too much...they're not companions, it's a group of people each one with different goals assembled by necessity. They don't know each other, they don't trust each other, and if you remember bg1... it was the same, Jaheira hated your guts, Minsc almost attacks you to protect Dynaheir. My main point is...why do we have to compare them? Why does there have to be a base splitting scenario? Those amazing classic games won't go away ( I will replay them as soon as I am done with Bg3 EA) and this game if good might draw more people to them. If Bg3 won't end up as good as the originals? Who cares? All that should matter is if BG3 ends up being a good or a bad game overall. I hope it'll be not because it's called Bg3 but it's a D&D game. |
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mastermustard
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2020 : 05:14:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Qilintha
It's been proved that Infinite engine games like PoE aren't that successful compared to DoS2. The point is...those games, those series happened, they changed the landscape of fantasy (for the better or the worst), making a game the split copy of a 20 years old game didn't work either. Siege of Dragonspear a Bg1 expansion made by the same people that did the enhanced edition, several writers from original game, in Infinite Engine...wasn't nearly as successful. If the story ties in with the BG saga ( as it's been already established by Larian several times) it can be called BG3.Also Neverwinter Nights 1 and Neverwinter Nights 2 have...basically nothing in common, but I don't recall people raging about it when NwN2 came out.
I am confused what you mean by nastiness to character interactions, if you mean your companions not really liking you, it's because without delving in spoilers too much...they're not companions, it's a group of people each one with different goals assembled by necessity. They don't know each other, they don't trust each other, and if you remember bg1... it was the same, Jaheira hated your guts, Minsc almost attacks you to protect Dynaheir. My main point is...why do we have to compare them? Why does there have to be a base splitting scenario? Those amazing classic games won't go away ( I will replay them as soon as I am done with Bg3 EA) and this game if good might draw more people to them. If Bg3 won't end up as good as the originals? Who cares? All that should matter is if BG3 ends up being a good or a bad game overall. I hope it'll be not because it's called Bg3 but it's a D&D game.
Siege of Dragonspear wasn't a commercial success, but for a different reason than top-down Infinity-Engine style games being out of style, the success of Torment: Tides of Numenara attests to this.
I was one of the pre-orders for BGEE and followed Beamdog until about 2015 when I finally gave into the growing sense of disenfranchisement I had been feeling, and gave up on the studio. The quality of their writing and their inclusion of the writers' political views into what was meant to be politically neutral escapism led many to realize that Beamdog is simply not reliable enough to handle such a renowned series as Baldurs' Gate.
It only goes to show that the D&D property alone doesn't make a good game, a good developer is necessary as well. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2020 : 14:26:54
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Sweet mother of Lurue, people, can't we keep these discussions -- and attacks -- elsewhere?
It's bad enough dealing with the politics in the news and on Facebook. Keep it away from here.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2020 : 16:07:04
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Well I think that a few hours of a beta version should hardly be enough to judge the merits of any RPG worth of this title but people can certainly make out patterns as to what to expect in the full game.
The Nevewinter Nights series was disjointed starting with the expansions of the first title. It was understood that the series was about "random" adventurers in the North of Faerun with ties to the city of Neverwinter. The main character has nothing too special about themselves that trascends the confines of any one title in the series (notable exception, going only from memory, is of course the transition NWN2 --> Mask of the Betrayer, but that's two titles out of ... 6?).
The Baldur's Gate series was in the reverse situation before the Enhanced Edition, with 4 titles connected and about the same story and 2 titles separated (but notice how they didn't name Dark Alliance as Baldur's Gate #. So after the Enhanced Edition repolish of the two "main" titles, a game called Baldur's Gate 3 made people think it's a sequel of sorts to the story of the Bhaalspawn.
So yeah, if the story is completely different and doesn't involve anything of BG1 and BG2 (and their expansions) then calling it BG3 is a misnomer and will p**s off a lot of people. Me included. But for now I don't think there is enough out there to say it (haven't checked and don't want to check spoilers ... yet).
Regarding the darker atmosphere (tough moral choices, general nastiness, troubled backgrounds, sensitive themes) it's a thing in fantasy now so whatever. I mean BG1 and 2 had plenty of very bad things and lots of innocent deaths and stuff like that but the means of communications (i.e. the graphics) were not advanced enough that they were not as "in your face" as modern renditions.
I get the complain on the party members though, even if it's just the start, if *everyone* you meet is out to get you then it gets old fast and loses all the appeal. So going by the first impressions reported 3/3 (temporary?) companions hate you, not a good track record for the game but we shall see.
I just hope there will be the party interactions and banter of the good old times (BG games, Planescape: Torment including the random party chats like in the elevators of Mass Effect). |
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Qilintha
Seeker
76 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2020 : 17:05:51
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Well few hours of beta (25h in a single playthrough) can give you a clear idea of gameplay, graphics,soundtrack, bantering with companions, story incipits, quests,sidequests,difficulty, versatility ,reactions of the world from your actions.
There are 5 companions at EA and two of them don't hate you if you're a good character( Personally besides one that it's a true pain, none of them hates me...everyone in my party is neutral or slightly above that), there is a lot bantering, with you, among companions and there also chats while in camp before a long rest. The story as I've written tons of times should have direct connections with the original games, word from the producers.
If the story won't be connected somehow I'll be sort of disappointed as well. |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2020 : 17:26:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Qilintha
... word from the producers.
Does anyone still believe what producers say?
I'm kidding, seems like it would be fun to play, but I'll personally wait for there to be more comprehensive reviews and the game to be at it's "live" status.
I hope whatever Early Access feedback is gathered is put to good use. |
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Qilintha
Seeker
76 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2020 : 21:24:35
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It honestly depends on the producer XD I have followed the streams and news from this game since it was announced and I am a fan of other Larian games so I might be biased however from their youtube videos it's clear that they are having Fun making this game. This was their first community update, on how Larian persuaded Wizards to make BG3 , it's hilarious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI4v6hC_rjM
About early access Larian did EA on all their games and put that formula to a big success, only reason why I bought it honestly. |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2020 : 01:20:35
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| I don't have a lot of time into the pre-release yet, but it's good so far. I have learned to manage my expectations in terms of Forgotten Realms lore, but overall it isn't a flop. There are some game play issues, but those will mostly get sorted before release. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2020 : 02:44:21
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| There will likely be a character or two from earlier games that can be pointed to in order to make the argument "See, it really is Baldur's Gate!" even though the rest of the game will likely be "off" tonally. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Qilintha
Seeker
76 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2020 : 14:48:00
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Honestly Forgotten Lore wise I am extremely pleased ^^ From tomes to the locations there is a lot of material, won't go into details because I don't want to make spoilers.
Azar, maybe for original games purist it might be a little "off" tonally, I hear that complaint a lot, especially from people that haven't played it...and I wonder what it means. Graphic wise? This game brings BG into the present era,it looks AMAZING. Music? Soundtrack is great, with some moments actually moving.Like this tiefling song -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KMuHNX2TBI Forgotten Lore: There is a lot to unpack as mentioned early. Story? It starts off well enough. Gameplay? Besides the few needed tweaks from it being an EA It may not be a BG game but it's a D&D game. I've never played any RPG game where I had that much freedom, both during combat than ( especially) outside combat. Add to that Larian's ability to build game puzzles and you have some challenging moments. Companions? They are interesting, some more than others obviously , my main complaint is that there might be less than in the original games, but we'll see. It's one thing I hope Larian will listen ( Some are saying they are raising to 25 companions and 10 origin characters...if that's true then I am satisfied). |
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Baldur’s Gate 3 in Early Access!
