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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Nov 2019 : 21:45:08
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What are the top 10 most power nations on Toril?
I'd say
1. Zakhara, it rules an entire continient.
2. Shou Lung
3. Wa
4. Mulhorand
5. Thay
6. Cormyr
7. Turmish
8. Tu Lung
9. Amn
10. Aglarond
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1265 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2019 : 23:27:59
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I think you need to say what date you are speaking of? Or do you mean of all time?
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2019 : 23:35:39
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If I had to say which "nation" (or more correctly organization) was powerful by rank I'll go with (as of 1e/2e):
1. Shou Lung
2. Hordes of the Steppe
3. Wa
4. Tu Lung
5. Mulhorand
6. Thay
7. Halruaa
8. Amn
9. Calimshan
10. Lord's Alliance OR Cormyr |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2019 : 03:21:56
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Power can be defined a lot of different ways, and depending on the definition, a nation at the top of one list might not even make another.
You've got military power, economic power, international influence, and in the Realms, magical might. These different types of power may or may not relate to each other -- Halruaa, for example, has certainly got the magical might, but they don't rank highly for the other categories.
Alliances can also be a huge factor. One nation may not be all that on its own, but if it can call on a couple of neighbors, even a more powerful nation may decide its better to leave them alone. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1265 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2019 : 08:50:36
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I don't think they do much world building in terms of large nations and relative power scales - the Empires trilogy is about as much as we get for armies and effectively Cormyr, the Dales, Sembia and Zhentil Keep (and a few city states) were able to stop the Horde army that decimated a good chunk of Shou Lung before a truce was reached.
If we're in the 1/2nd era - and I need to exclude nations outside of the Heartlands due to my own ignorance - here are some thouughts -
- Thay was held at bay by much "weaker" Rasheman and Aglarond, not sure if they ever had a cohesive national army because of infighting before Szass made his move. While it would be very difficult to conquer, they aren't much of a threat to others due to their infighting - as Wooly says power takes many forms!
- The Zhentarim aren't really a nation but the novel lines would have you believe they have near infinite armies of fodder in the Citadel of the Raven and Darkhold, and a cohesive leadership structure and ability to (peacefully) take over entire cities through covert operatives. Yet no one places them on a list, odd?
- Sembia is at least equal to Cormyr in the 1/2nd edition as the two have a cold war of sorts and Sembian aggression into the Dales is a big concern to the surrounding areas. They control the trade, and are on par with Amn for being the trading super power of the Heartlands (focusing on the Innersea).
- Evermeet would seem to be as powerful and near impossible for anyone without divine intervention to conquer (tangent warning - or massive contrivance from Elaine - I hated that current time plot of the Evermeet novel because it made no sense at all that a huge army/navy was formed without any elf being the wiser until a silver dragon spotted it thinking it was birds...supply chains and logistics be damned...Evermeet is isolated yes but they would know if a massive navy was formed and set sail from the Sword Coast to them sigh)
- Amn was pretty much in a very bad place in 2nd edition with the Sythillisian uprising taking over cities and disrupting life there greatly.
- As Wooly says - alliances would be huge- for instance the Lord's Alliance would bring together many armies for a common enemy that threatened say...Silverymoon, Waterdeep, Baldur's Gate, etc and any attacking enemy Realm would find a much bigger foe than they bargained for.
Halruaa would probably be incredibly powerful relative to other nations in 1/2nd edition - if they were aggressive, given that it is basically modern day Netheril, and determined, I am not sure how many could stand against them given their resources and magic. But they are quite isolationist and not aggressive, so it's moot.
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Bragi
Seeker
USA
88 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2019 : 12:00:30
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This is 1e/2e
1. Shou Lung
2. Zakhara
3. Evermeet
4. Halruaa
5. The Great Rift
6. Mulhorand
7 Calimshan
8. Sembia
9. Tu Lung
10. Undrek'Thoz |
In Pursuit of Better Worlds,
Bragi of Erin |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2019 : 14:03:20
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Surprisingly, noone said Impiltur (though theirs appears to be more of a quiet defensive power, I would consider them as powerful as Cormyr or Sembia). I do like that people did consider underdark nations though with Undrek'Thoz.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7966 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2019 : 21:30:10
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Human nations.
And, because Realmslore... of course some elf nations, perhaps some dark elf nations.
But what about all the nonhuman/monstrous "nations"?
There's a lot of dragons, goblins, orcs, giants, and other creatures. Which could assemble much power (in Dragonrages, orcish hoards, etc) and force any human/elf/drow nations (or alliances) in their path to crumble. They've done it before, they've caused nations in the North and the Moonsea to fall before, they might be able to do it again. |
[/Ayrik] |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2019 : 21:54:23
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| In the Year of the Rogue Dragons series is a Gold Dragon King which is said to have authority over the other gold and silver dragons at least. So if you want to count that as a nation you have some vast power assembled there I think. |
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Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe
USA
329 Posts |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2019 : 12:55:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Power can be defined a lot of different ways, and depending on the definition, a nation at the top of one list might not even make another.
You've got military power, economic power, international influence, and in the Realms, magical might. These different types of power may or may not relate to each other
Indeed. But then, magical might differs too.
And all this interacts with the situation and goals.
Stars Without Numbers has faction system built upon a very crude model, but as such it's boiled down to the essentials.
It's tri-stat: a faction's primary statistics are Force, Cunning and Wealth ratings. Meaning strength and sophistication of military, intelligence and economical infrastructures respectively.
Makes sense?
quote:
Alliances can also be a huge factor. One nation may not be all that on its own, but if it can call on a couple of neighbors, even a more powerful nation may decide its better to leave them alone.
It's mostly circumstances, not own properties, IMO.
Luiren got a serious ally. Which is in part due to its agricultural greatness, sure. But if Halruaa had another 10 neighbours who were major food exporters, while Luiren itself could be exactly the same, it won't be so important. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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What are the top 10 most power nations on Toril?
