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unseenmage
Seeker
61 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Mar 2018 : 10:16:31
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Where does brilliant energy originate both in real world gaming history and in the gameworld itself?
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Flying monkeys will eat your eyes. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2018 : 10:47:55
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http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Brilliant_Energy
https://dnd.arkalseif.info/dndtools/items/dungeon-masters-guide-v35--4/brilliant-energy--141/
You'll find a lot of online discussions/arguments about Brilliant Energy items; it's apparently not a well-received modifier, it's often called "broken" or "stupid", and it's often abused by munchkins.
The D&D rules assume this modifier will be used on magical weapons or magical armor, although technically almost any kind of magical item would be possible.
I personally think Brilliant Energy items were inspired by the "Ethereal" items found in Diablo 2 (which was immensely popular when D&D3E/3.5E came out). Note that D&D and Diablo 2 use the word "ethereal" to mean very different things.
There isn't any real world analogue of these things, aside from stories involving powerful magical items (mostly swords and shields and medallions) glowing brilliantly when wielded. Although I suppose one could say "things made out of light" are something like sci-fi holograms (which tend to have appearance, behaviour, and substance far more "realistic" than real world holograms ever could, lol).
Brilliant Energy items could derive their power from a link with the Positive Material Plane, or from a link with some intermediate quasi-planar area between the Prime and the Positive (since we know there is a Demiplane of Shadow aka the Shadowfell, along with various sorts of "Demiplanes of Darkness" at various Inner Planar intersections between the Prime and the Negative, so it stands to reason that there could also be a "Demiplane of Light").
I doubt these items would have any intrinsic affinity for any Outer Planes or any deities/powers since they're unaligned and don't have the same effects vs living or unliving creatures as "Holy" items.
For all we know, they could in fact be fueled by a power of illusion. I see them as an extreme (and implausible) extrapolation of continual light and would generally avoid them in my games, but that's just my opinion.
The Realms setting can answer this question with easy handwavium:
These magical items are powered by the magical Weave. Which is ultimately a manifestation of Mystra's divine power. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 26 Mar 2018 11:16:38 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2018 : 12:54:15
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| They come from much further back than diablo 2. They're basically meant to be lightsabers from Star Wars / Sunswords from Thundarr the Barbarian. However, they modified them such that they can't slice through objects and the dead (so no carving a whole in a door, etc...). The base idea though for fighting would work the same (in essence, a "jedi" fighting an armored warrior doesn't have to worry about the person's armor... not because he's chopping it up, but because his weapon simply ignores it). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2018 : 16:42:14
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Easy answer? Someone wanted a D&D lightsaber.
Difficult answer? It draws from the Quasielemental Plane of Radiance; the tradeoff is that even the faintest amounts of the the necrotic energies that animate undead creatures render them immune to the manifested radiance, while the arcane treatment of the metals and non-living matter that make up constructs simply don't conduct the magical brilliance of such weapons. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2018 : 18:13:29
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I can see why they had to nerf it on 'non-living' stuff for game mechanics, but that makes little sense, logically. You can carve a living person up, but once they die, the sword stops working on their 'meat'? WHY?
A radiant Weapon should be able to do MORE damage to undead, but whatever. Maybe its like a microwave instead of a laser? More damaging to living things, then. Still, microwaves work on dead stuff as well, so long as its organic.
It could be fixable if you combined it with something else. For instance, perhaps to make a Holy Weapon you first have to fashion a Brilliant One, and then you have to overlay dweomers on it so it will work on Undead. Something along those lines. Thus, a 'Brilliant Weapon' almost becomes an unfinished Holy one.
But at the end of the day, weapons that only damage living tissue are NOT 'Brilliant' and certainly NOT 'Holy'; if anything they sound evil/necrotic in nature (so I might be tempted to replace the fluff with a 'Darkflame' weapon - a weapon composed of a beam of focused necrotic energy). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2018 : 18:25:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I can see why they had to nerf it on 'non-living' stuff for game mechanics, but that makes little sense, logically. You can carve a living person up, but once they die, the sword stops working on their 'meat'? WHY?
Because the Brilliant Energy only works on things with souls?
Because they work by overloading life energy, i.e. positive energy, and they ignore anything not connected to the source of all life, the Positive Energy Plane?
Because they are enchanted to ignore non-living matter in order to make it possible to attack foes without contending with their armour?
Really, any of these explanations can do and it's even possible that different weapons that are called Brilliant Energy could have different sources of enchantment, even if the game effect were the same. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2018 : 18:51:06
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But that's just......... magic.
And does the sword work on trolls no matter what? Because anything with regen should bypass the 'inert matter' requirement. You should be able to carve a troll into tiny little bits all night long. 
I still think Darksword/negative energy fits with what this does better than any flavor of 'positive energy', but whatever. Lightsabers do come in a variety of colors, after all (do they ever explain why that is?)
Hmmmm.. that just gave me an idea. 'Deity Magic' ALSO comes in a variety of colors. Maybe link this to Silver Fire in The Realms? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2018 : 02:06:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
But at the end of the day, weapons that only damage living tissue are NOT 'Brilliant' and certainly NOT 'Holy'; if anything they sound evil/necrotic in nature (so I might be tempted to replace the fluff with a 'Darkflame' weapon - a weapon composed of a beam of focused necrotic energy).
A disruption weapon only harms the undead, but it's not good in nature. Positive and negative energy alone is neither inherently good or evil. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2018 : 02:08:24
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| I do like the "darksword" idea.... which is something star wars did as well (they called it the darksaber and it was created by a Mandalorian). Granted, that had nothing to do with negative energy. Having a "darksaber" that's also unholy and wounding just seems interesting. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2018 : 03:27:21
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I do like the "darksword" idea.... which is something star wars did as well (they called it the darksaber and it was created by a Mandalorian). Granted, that had nothing to do with negative energy. Having a "darksaber" that's also unholy and wounding just seems interesting.
-The real Darksaber was a superweapon created by Bevel Lemelisk for Durga the Hutt. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2018 : 16:22:18
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In FR, there as a whole set of Darkswords forged by Melegaunt. They were the only things that worked effectively against the Phaerimm.
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I do like the "darksword" idea.... which is something star wars did as well (they called it the darksaber and it was created by a Mandalorian). Granted, that had nothing to do with negative energy. Having a "darksaber" that's also unholy and wounding just seems interesting.
-The real Darksaber was a superweapon created by Bevel Lemelisk for Durga the Hutt.
You know there was a lesser branch of the Hutt family that handled minor criminal activities - the Hovels. They sold drugs on street corners and stuff.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Mar 2018 16:23:35 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2018 : 17:21:02
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| And, of course, THE Darksword, subject of a trilogy by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman (and even obliquely referenced in the Dragonlance Legends trilogy!). |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2018 : 02:36:49
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| Shadowstuff weapons made by the cloakers of Rringlor Noroth had properties of both brilliant energy and ghost touch weapons. Sadly, which exact properties is not really detailed as the two enchantments are somewhat contradictory. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 29 Mar 2018 03:06:48 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2018 : 02:41:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
In FR, there as a whole set of Darkswords forged by Melegaunt. They were the only things that worked effectively against the Phaerimm.
-I don't fully remember, but I don't think they were energy weapons, or crazily enchanted like that. Given that the book was heavy with the Weave vs. Shadow Weave theme and had it's own ideas about that that didn't appear anywhere else, I think they were just like normal swords or something with generic enchantments tied to the Shadow Weave. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2018 : 03:59:57
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I never found any canon info about Melegaunt's 20 darkswords beyond how they were described in the Twilight War novel trilogy.
They're obviously enchanted with shadow magic. Probably forged from the shady matter of the Shadowfell itself. They're apparently excellent quality weapons, masterpieces of "Netherese" craft. They allow their owner/wielder to see normally in darkness and shadow. They seem to grant the owner/wielder some Shade-like abilities (like a limited regeneration, limited resistance to magic, etc). They're also described as being almost equivalent to elven moonblades insofar as each of these blades is linked to a particular bloodline and seems to increase in power each time it is attuned to a new owner.
These novels introduced shadow magic to the Realms, it was still mysterious and exotic and dangerous. It was a finely-honed tool of immortal archwizards descended from Netheril's finest prodigy and armed with one of Netheril's finest floating enclaves. It held its own face-to-face with other exotic and powerful magics - elven high-magics and mythals, Mystra's Chosen and their silverfire, Mask's Chosen, Shar's Chosen, Lathander's champion, a mythical kraken, hordes of phaerimm invaders. So the power of the darkswords might have been exaggerated as the narrative was told from the perspective of characters who had never encountered such strange and dangerous shadow magics before. |
[/Ayrik] |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2018 : 14:36:57
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quote:
Originally posted by unseenmage
Where does brilliant energy originate both in real world gaming history
It's a generic ill-defined beyond crunch thing much like "Darkvision", thus 3.x of course.
The earlier, more original (and cool) effects were sword of sharpness like weapons, created by:
- Chromatic Blade spell (Forgotten Realms, Pages from the Mages back in Dragon): it gives save bonus vs. a few spells and can peel prismatic spheres like onions and
- Tulani at-will ability (Planescape): it does bonus positive energy damage to evil creatures.
quote:
and in the gameworld itself?
What "gameworld"? |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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unseenmage
Seeker
61 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2018 : 09:06:51
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder...
quote:
and in the gameworld itself?
What "gameworld"?
Exactly. Is there any gameworld within which Brilliant Energy gets an origin story? |
Flying monkeys will eat your eyes. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2018 : 15:46:08
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by unseenmage
Where does brilliant energy originate both in real world gaming history
It's a generic ill-defined beyond crunch thing much like "Darkvision", thus 3.x of course.
The earlier, more original (and cool) effects were sword of sharpness like weapons, created by:
- Chromatic Blade spell (Forgotten Realms, Pages from the Mages back in Dragon): it gives save bonus vs. a few spells and can peel prismatic spheres like onions and
- Tulani at-will ability (Planescape): it does bonus positive energy damage to evil creatures.
That's more than unfair; neither of those examples are weapons, they're a spell and a racial ability. It's not like 3.5e is bereft of weapon-creation spells; black blade of disaster, blade of pain and fear, blade of blood, persistent blade, lightning blade, mordenkainen's sword, sword of darkness, sword of deception and ring of blades all exist.
To answer the OP's last post: No more than acidic, spellstoring, holy, unholy, enervating, vicious, profane, souldrinking and desiccation do. Generic weapon abilities don't get the same prestigious backstories as moonblades. Just make something up. |
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What is Brilliant Energy Really?
