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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Oct 2017 : 14:01:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I had leaned away from a couple of things Mr. Costa had done there, back when I was working on the Taan region (trying to bridge the FR, K-T, and Al-Qadim lore), but as of recently I decided i was wrong about the Iamskari's origins, and thus, their language may very well have 'popped up out of nowhere' (but I like how its connected to devic, which was still spoken in Solon up to 3e, and if Devic = Deva, it could be related to the 'langauge primeval', which is the basis for many world's earliest languages (including Earth-Latin, which is why we find so many magical terms contain bits of Latin, on all different worlds... even Harry Potter does it... a great deal).
In fact, I would go so far as to say that's why it seems you can speak the 'common' of any world you go to, even though each world has a different 'common'. Because each is based on the primal language (which only exists in its purest form in the Astral - its the 'language of the mind' spoken with psionics), somehow, the universe has a mechanism for converting what you say into the closest form in a new Crystal Sphere (in other words, every universe is Star Trek). Weirdly, it won't do this for languages from the same sphere (it works the same way with deities, or using magic - when you enter a new sphere you are 'translated' into the physics of the new sphere. Think of it like porting a character over from one edition of D&D to another).
So if I go back to my computer analogies, its like you are running under an emulator. I hope that doesn't give you bad lag. 
I also have to wonder if it would look like you were speaking like a badly-dubbed Godzilla movie.
This is one of those pieces that I can honestly say I never encountered much, because I was never a big planescape person previously, nor did I get into spelljammer when it was big. However, I feel like this is one piece that shouldn't be downplayed as much as it is. For instance, one of the big hindrances in the Maztica campaign was the lack of ability by most of the Faerunians to speak with the Mazticans, and that's on the same world. We have certain items that are around for the express purpose of enabling communication, and when we bypass that, it cheapens them. Someone travelling into unknown territory should treasure their helm of comprehending languages MORE than their wand of fireballs.... meanwhile, in day to day use in their home city, the thing would probably collect dust.
In fact, it may very well be that certain magic items "sell" more commonly at magic shops, as they may be treated almost like "rentals". Not a rental like you would do with a DVD where you rent it for next to nothing and return it, but more that you pay full price, and when you return it you get more than half price back because they're pretty certain someone else will come along and need it for a short term. That being said, are their any other magic items that come to mind that people might treat like this as "rental" magic items in 5e (or from earlier editions)? It might be worth noting this kind of item as pretty much being available say 80% of the time in shops. For instance, I could see girdles of femininity/masculinity possibly being "rentals" that people later remove the curse of if they're infiltrate an enemy (this would be the lower end, for those who can't afford a proper polymorph). I could see apparatus of kwalish being special "rentals", but a lot less common. Crystal balls might be available for those who find themselves in a temporary stint of needing to hunt down information. Pipes of the sewers might even be used in coordination with lesser wizards to clear infestations of rats. Moving companies or groups transporting valuable large objects may temporarily "rent" a portable hole or bag of holding. Folding Boats, driftglobes, decanters of endless water, and sending stones are others. In fact, I'd see many magic shops having possibly tens if not hundreds of driftglobes, and they may readily rent them all the time to use at festivals, weddings, etc.... in the way that people often rent tables and chairs in our world. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2017 : 04:15:02
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Damn 3e for making people think you could buy an actual magical item in a shop.
Quoted for emphasis.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2017 : 07:08:40
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Ha @sleyvas, "renting" magical items.
You've basically described an old ex-gf. She'd buy an outfit, wear it to the party or whatever, return it for refund/exchange the next day, use the money/credit to get another outfit. Over and over again, always had new clothes, rarely had laundry, always knew where all the stores were and all the stuff they had in stock. As if the entire mall was just an extension of her closet.
Why not go one step further and copy the Netflix rental model, lol, pay a monthly subscription and keep up to two "rental" items at a time for as long as you want, thousands of magical titles to choose from! |
[/Ayrik] |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2017 : 08:29:26
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I had a friend that did that with watches and jewelry, and he kept adding a little more money into the 'pool' until he got up to the point where he wearing Rolexes. He even bought a $1000 stereo for a party, and then returned it the next day. The thing is, the prices we pay retail reflect all that.
As for languages, I'd prefer you had to use magic to communicate everywhere (not actually LEARN the damn languages), but alas, Planescape and Spelljammer had to simplify things. Thus, priestly magic, arcane sources, and language all got 'translated' to the new sphere. it was just a lot less bookkeeping that way. I mentioned Star Trek earlier (in regards to how they can just speak to everyone, everywhere), but Doctor Who does it as well, as do a thousand other Scify franchises. No-one wants to put that much effort into a movie, or TV show, or book (or cartoon, comic, etc., although its MUCH easier in that medium). Like D&D, you have to keep the narrative moving along.
Of course, then we got things like, "FR Arcane casters have to have The Weave to 'do magic'", and then we see Elminster, multiple times in multiple planes and on other worlds - casting his Weave-based magic with nary a care. Same goes for a few others. The concept of 'the Weave' only works if it is universal, which 4e seems to have been working towards. only problem is, its makes gods like Mystra and Shar potentially more powerful than Ao (and if its not universal, then a lot of lore - especially novels - gets screwed up).
Now, with folks like The Chosen we can flub a few things (they could have an 'auto-translate' as one of their chosen abilities). Basically, Comprehend Languages running 24/7 in their case. We might also say that the 'automatic translation' effects only work if you travel via magic (like Planeshift), but if you 'walk' to another plane or use an SJ ship to go to another world, maybe its doesn't do it automatically (so one might think its a special ability of the Weave itself, like a 'free bonus' for using it to go somewhere). We don't really need to worry about what happens to casters from other worlds when they travel to Toril.
But as far as psionics goes, I think true telepathy should NOT require you to know the other person's language. I can see the rule about knowing some language, because thats a great way to make sure someone doesn't try to talk to a cat of a dog (basically, just a game-mechanic so only intelligent creatures are involved). Most magical beasts have their own languages, so we are really only talking normal animals here, or something truly exotic. Its still not 100% useful, however, unless you also have empathy (as I have said recently elsewhere, I think fey convey certain emotions when they speak, which require them to have far fewer words - they have no need for adjectives and adverbs - but their written language would be incredibly complex (like Chinese). Each word would require its own symbol, which can be modified by adding more to it to emulate the emotions. A casual (non-fey) reader might miss the slight nuances.
And then you have the saurials, who don't have a spoken language, so telepathy won't work, and empathy will only go so far (they communicate empathically, but they use 'odors' to do so). Although I thought I recalled a saurial who did speak? Maybe they could learn? I don't think they'd have the proper larynx-structure for it (and since the one I am thinking of was an archmage, he may have been using magic). Still, if he had no language to begin with, then he would have broken the rule regarding psionic communication.
Anyone recall how it worked in Ravenloft? I think there were several languages going on there - I'm not sure if those lands had a 'common' (since each domain came from a different world, that would require some extra-spiffy mojo).
And then we have fiends (and, I suppose, Celestials). They are the SAME fiends for a million worlds, and yet, they understand the languages of all of them. Go figure. It must be their psionics.
You know what might be fun? A 'Babel' effect, perhaps on one party member, or the whole party, or even a whole city or more. Suddenly everyone is speaking different languages. That would be a very interesting adventure (especially if the PCs were no longer allowed to talk to each other).
And as for 'magic shops' - just no. Not in my D&D, Not ever. My PCs learn to treasure their +1 sword of nose-picking.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Oct 2017 08:31:39 |
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Martinsky
Acolyte
Canada
34 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2017 : 12:21:39
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You talking of Star-Trek, it remind me the mother of Diana Troy. I think she can even read mind with her telepaty. So I dont know if every telepath can read mind or it some kind of other psionic ability. How I imagine telepathy it more like a phone where the caller and receiver must be telepath and talking same language to understand each other. So derived power are some other psionic ability, like read mind, empathy or stealingdistort though. But if you take professor X in MArvel he can talk to someone even if the other is not telepath, so it may be somekind of read mind & subjection power. Some different telepathic way exist like you said and like I said, some are using image-vision or like for the fey-Vulcans some kind of empathy-telapathic mix., those can problably easily be almost universal. Some basic telepth race like we can see in Star-Trek are way inferior to the Betazoid, so I will say they use this "inferior" way as a reference. In my book basic telephaty with just word will require both to be telepath and both knowing same language.
For this caster weave thing it make me think of ingredients for spell. It ok for long process spell but otherwise it something I like to skip. I suppose even if they change plane they still get in touch with there gods but it have lot of different magic so some are already compatible with plane shifting. T |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2017 : 12:37:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Ha @sleyvas, "renting" magical items.
You've basically described an old ex-gf. She'd buy an outfit, wear it to the party or whatever, return it for refund/exchange the next day, use the money/credit to get another outfit. Over and over again, always had new clothes, rarely had laundry, always knew where all the stores were and all the stuff they had in stock. As if the entire mall was just an extension of her closet.
Why not go one step further and copy the Netflix rental model, lol, pay a monthly subscription and keep up to two "rental" items at a time for as long as you want, thousands of magical titles to choose from!
Its exactly how a lot of things in our world are done though. A lot of smaller contractors will rent boards for pouring slabs, just because they don't have a place to store them all later. If they need to mix some cement, but just for say like a gazebo, they may rent a portable cement mixer. If they need to move some dirt, they may rent a small tractor. If they need scaffolding, they may rent it. Out where I live, there's a company that just does that... they rent tools (even to the point that they'll rent you a basic tool kit including screwdrivers, drill, circular saw, hammer, wrenches, pliers, etc...).
So, a guy who is a rat catcher may normally just put out some poison on the cheap. But then periodically he runs across "a big job", so he knows that two towns over he can rent a pipe of the sewers and possibly even pay some apprentice wizard to come "blast them". In the end, it probably pays him 50 times his normal small job (maybe all of 50 gold), and the magic shop owner probably gets the same amount for having made the pipe available. The big thing here would be that whoever paid for this "big job" probably had to come up with a lot of money up front to secure the pipe. To ensure that the exterminator didn't make off with the pipe, he probably hired some low end adventurer to "escort" him (and in fact, they may be the ones killing the rats). The magic shop owner may even send his own muscle if he knows this will be a rental situation. In the end, it would be more expensive than simple poison, BUT in a situation that's so bad that it requires a pipe of the sewers, it may clean up whole city blocks and turn around a blight on a city. Some cities might pay for this kind of service yearly just to prevent things getting bad. While each city COULD keep their own pipes, its more efficient to let a third party rent them out. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Martinsky
Acolyte
Canada
34 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2017 : 13:54:54
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Yes rental it the future I most agree. Here we have a shop called MeC(Mountain equipment coop) It a Coop, but what good it you can try a thing and if you dont like it come back and exchange it for something fitting better. I think those kind of Coop are the future with all AI and automate robotic, we will need to instaure some kind of sharing thing, a little like Coop or West-jet, where everyone is owner.
Talking of his ex-gf cloth, it can be good for owner of shop also to have some kind of sharing politic after use. With the stealing it one of the biggest loss for lot of retailer. So lot people doing thing like those in every department and it just becoming more and more popular.
Being paid it one the biggest problem also. It may even become so much time consuming that it hurt lot of small business. Outside customer who want you to re-do for those service you offer like exterminations. You will need to instaure some kind of politics, otherwise it can be lot time-consuming for a small rental shop. Find a balance between being manipulate by customer and manipulate customer! |
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Martinsky
Acolyte
Canada
34 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2017 : 18:33:32
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Here some name I make for surnames of Unther. Mostly based on the name from acedemia link of Starshade and the idea of god in name.
Here how it can look like. What do you think of "-" maybe I can put some in just one word like "Assurbanipal"? Those name are mostly for the elite and ruler. I make some son of with the "bar" to represent the lowest class but slave wont have surnames. Maybe if I can find the traduction of"propriety of" or "slave of" but it not matter much anyway. I use the "bet" for "family of" to look something like the god-house of Mulhorand.(they are unsorted yet sorry fot that)
Marduk-ah-iddin
Ishtar-issar-ali
Marduk-sar-usur
Enlil-sar-usur
Ningal-at-bullit
Ningal-sum-iskun
Ningal-zer-ibni
Nergal-ahhe-eriba
Nergal-aba-usur
Girru-nadin-ahi
Utu-sarru-ibni
Ki-apla-eres
Mannu-ki-Marduk
Mannu-ki-Enlil
Mannu-ki-Ishtar
Mannu-ki-Nergal
Sa-Girru-damqa
Inanna-kasir-sumi
Utu-kudurri-usur
Gilgeam-nadin-sumi
Girru-nadin-ahhe
Inanna-nadin-ahi
Ishtar-nadin-apli
Nergal-nadin-zeri
Marduk-nadin-beli
Ramman-tukulti-ensi
Tiamat-tukulti
Nanna-Sin-nadin
Enbilulu-kudurri
Dumuzi-kasir
Ninazu-danqu
Ereshkigal-ki
Ramman-eres
Nanna-Sin-eres
Marduk-ibni
Ishtar-sar
Ishtar-sar-ali
Marduk-sar-usur
Marduk-magir
Ki-magir
Inanna-bel-usur
Arad-Gilgeam
Arad-Nergal
Arad-Ishtar
Kalbi-Nanna-Sin
Kalbi-Marduk
Kalbi-Enlil
Girru-nadin-ahi
Ninazu-ki
Utu-zer-ibni
Ereshkigal-sum-iskun
Enbilulu-zer-ibni
Ramman-kasir
Nanna-Sin-kudurri
bar-Anti'iikusu
bar-Bashaa
bar-Deemuukratee
bar-Enshunu
bar-Ikuppi-Adad
bar-Kinaa
bar-Mannuiqapi
bar-Nikiiarqusu
bar-Rabi-Sillashu
bar-Shamash-Nasir
bar-Zuuthusu
bet-Enlil
bet-Gilgeam
bet-Ishtar
bet-Marduk
bet-Nergal
bet-Inanna
bet-Utu
bet-Ki
bet-Girru |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2017 : 23:40:48
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Telepathy - Any of you ever watch any of those 'ghost hunter' shows? there is one - The Dead Files where they have a psychic, and she 'talks' to dead people, but part of what she has to do is interpret what they are saying, because all she gets is 'pictures'. I think it would be something like that (unless both people have telepathy, and both speak the same language).
Interestingly (getting back to Star Trek), there was an episode of ST: Voyager where they landed on another planet, and the whole race were telepaths, and they were able to communicate freely with Tuvoc that way, but had to speak 'out loud' for everyone else (supposedly they didn't have to, but it was considered 'rude' otherwise). But my whole point here is, in order for ST's universal translators to work, there has to be some form of laguage to work with. It CAN'T work with telepathy. thus, when they 'spoke aloud', they were having their own language translated. They still had to HAVE a language to communicate properly, even via mentally.
Which, of course, somewhat disproves my own opinion... but its a scify show, so whatever. Its probably more a matter of how well you can understand the other person, because if you didn't have a language in common, you have to do it with pictures, like Amy in The Dead Files does it (I'm sure the dead have a language they spoke when they were alive, but they still aren't telepathic themselves, hence the communication problems). It doesn't always work like that, though. She does seem to have direct communication with some. Its not very consistent. Plus some of them are older spirits, like Native Americans, or immigrants, where English is only a second language.
I recall one episode of Ghost Hunters International, and I was able to understand the spirits better then the New Zealanders! (seriously, the show actually had subtitles we had to read - how the hell is that still English?)  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Oct 2017 23:45:34 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2017 : 04:01:15
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I note that some psionic creatures use telepathic attacks which communicate concepts (like "you are safe", "you are happy", "you are dead", etc) to their victims without proper language. Some enchantments and illusions work in a similar way - the wyrd spell places the victim's mind in an explicitly detailed (and very lethal) battle to the death vs whatever it is he/she fears the most, without the caster even being aware (or needing to care) about the specific details. Some beings (especially deities and outer planar contacts and the dead) are notorious for communicating with visions and images and omens with cryptic meanings the recipient cannot readily understand or decipher. Some illithids have language, some do not, and their form of intelligence is utterly alien, but they can still all communicate certain concepts, messages, and compulsions to their targets telepathically.
So I interpret this as telepathy requires a proper language (even a shared language) to convey proper messages. But it can still be used to communicate "non-language" or "pre-language" messages when the language itself is absent. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 21 Oct 2017 04:06:14 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2017 : 18:10:59
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Borrow an idea from Mulhorand and for last name use a Sa or Za in front of a, Untherite name.
Example Zaianna, Sagilmesh, ZaNanna-Sin. |
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Unther last name/surname question
