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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Nov 2017 : 08:27:21
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Notice the worlds/settings without gods are ALWAYS 'closed spheres' (like Athas as well) - why is that? One condition must be the direct result of the other.
And its funny how the filters here at CK don't like it when I accidentally drop the 'o' in the word 'count'.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Nov 2017 08:28:36 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2017 : 12:14:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Notice the worlds/settings without gods are ALWAYS 'closed spheres' (like Athas as well) - why is that? One condition must be the direct result of the other.
And its funny how the filters here at CK don't like it when I accidentally drop the 'o' in the word 'count'.
Technically though, Eberron has gods, just we don't know where to find them or even if they exist in any kind of physical form. For all we know, all the gods are just manifestations of dreams. That all being said, I won't claim to have a lot of Eberron knowledge and later sources may have delved this more. Still, yes, their gods are much more aloof and offhands.
But yes, you're right, theses situations do seem to exist only with worlds who may have connections to outer planes, but those outer planes have no connection to other worlds that is documented.... until of course we find out that Eberron opened a link to Toril at one point (where said portal existed on both sides... I dunno.... and I believe it had something to do with Lolth).
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2017 : 17:40:11
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Well, it could be something as simple as that when an Overpower turns 'cosmic immigration' off, the sphere is closed, so that neither SJ methods, PLanescape methods, nor Divine Interloping will work.
The big hole in all of that is that SJing is precisely how the Mulan gods 'snuck in'. But then again, I believe the Imaskari 'hacked the code', and it wasn't supposed to be set to 'off', and since their methodology was imprecise (in regards to how to turn certain 'laws of physics' on & off within a Crystal Sphere), they basically left a back-door open. I think if Ao (or some other Overpower) wanted to block Divine Immigration, they be able to block it completely.
I had it (a long time ago) where the Vedic pantheon managed to get into Realmspace via dreams - they sent Avatars to merge with dreamers, thus creating Manifestations. Rather then Spelljamming, they used the Plane of Dreams. However, my latest musings has me thinking that pantheon may have 'always been there' (in Malatra), so despite the fact I love some of the mythos I developed around that, I may just have to lose it. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Nov 2017 00:58:39 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2017 : 21:55:07
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I was reading the Powers & Pantheon book, and it seems that the method used by the Imaskari is similar to that used to create the "Scepter of the Sorcerers-Kings" (that is described in a book called Encyclopedia Magica Vol.3, that I have no access to). Making some searching here and here, it seems the Scepter is Netherese in origin. Shouldn't surprise me, seeing what Karsus did...
quote:
"The artifact had a power that could seal Toril off from the gods, thus preventing them from manifesting on the planet in any form."
For what it seems, the Netherese also "hacked the code", and their method was more OP than the Imaskari. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 03 Nov 2017 22:00:09 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2017 : 22:44:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
I was reading the Powers & Pantheon book, and it seems that the method used by the Imaskari is similar to that used to create the "Scepter of the Sorcerers-Kings" (that is described in a book called Encyclopedia Magica Vol.3, that I have no access to). Making some searching here and here, it seems the Scepter is Netherese in origin. Shouldn't surprise me, seeing what Karsus did...
quote:
"The artifact had a power that could seal Toril off from the gods, thus preventing them from manifesting on the planet in any form."
For what it seems, the Netherese also "hacked the code", and their method was more OP than the Imaskari.
Theirs was much more short term though (only 10 days) and more troubling... it was random on which deity it would affect. Given the hundreds of deities in the realms, trying to banish a specific deity for 10 days would be useless.... and likely to get you wiped from the world when a deity returns. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2017 : 23:23:01
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But theirs could be mass produced, not? That could be troublesome. Even more if they could refine the magical effect to bar the gods.
I'm starting to think that Karsus' Folly wasn't just the efforts of a mortal wizard. A few gods wanting to get rid of both Mystril and Netheril may have had their input as well... |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2017 : 00:51:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
But theirs could be mass produced, not? That could be troublesome. Even more if they could refine the magical effect to bar the gods.
I'm starting to think that Karsus' Folly wasn't just the efforts of a mortal wizard. A few gods wanting to get rid of both Mystril and Netheril may have had their input as well...
Just as much as any artifact can be mass produced... which isn't likely.
On that thought with Karsus.... now you may be onto something there. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2017 : 01:28:18
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Okay, bear with me....
In MY homebrew musings, I have it where Thaeravel was originally an Imaskari enclave... founded by Hilather (Halaster). He set up shop there to study the 'strange energies' emanating from beneath the Tunlands. He brought with him a bunch of his followers (and perhaps some Mulan slaves), so it was very small group, but because of his (Alabaster) Tower, and the rather advanced 'methodology' those folk approached everything (farming, etc), the settlement grew and grew - mostly local Talfir tribes joined him, but there may have been others. Over time, his apprentices built towers of their own, and settlements formed around them, and Thaeravel - "The Land of Alabaster Towers" came to be. It wasn't any sort of official realm - more like a small confederation of allied wizards. After a time, the nearby Gur that settled in Seventon started to become magically powerful themselves, and expanded into a true nation... one that would eventually attack and overpower (and absorb) Thaeravel.
Now, Thaeravel was actually the realm of the 'Sorcerer Kings' - scepter technology came from there. It was magitech specifically designed by Halaster and his apprentices - 'Sorcerers' (Southern magi) all. Sorcery comes from the south; in fact, it originated in Zakhara. Thanks to their Fey bloodlines, the Imaskari were powerful Sorcerers... but other folks knew them as 'artificers', for their penchant to build complex magical wonders. When Thaeravel fell, the Netherese seized all their magic and knowledge, including the knowledge of scepters, and Shadow magic (the very thing Halaster was investigating and experimenting with). Since Netheril wound up with that stuff, and Thaeravel became part of Netheril, it became falsely associated with the 'Sorcerer Kings'. The scepter and other such devices were indeed created by the 'Sorcerer kings', but they were then stolen by the Netherese, so that explains the confusion regarding them, and the name.
Some connecting canon:
1) Halaster was known for experimenting with Shadow Magic, and there is DEFINITELY something strange going on under the Tunlands. Halaster even eventually lost his mind because of his 'shadow dabblings'. He is also mentioned in at least one context as having 'Netherese contemporaries', so he may have hid his identity and become Netherese himself for a time.
2) The Talfir were all over that region, and they themselves became later known for their use of 'Shadow magic' (see The Shadowking).
3) Netheril didn't seem to be going down a 'dark path' until after taking over Thaeravel (although one could argue attacking and killing tons of your neighbors was pretty damn dark to begin with... unless they - or the Terraseer - feared what he was experimenting with).
4) In The Ring of Winter, it is mentioned that Lord Dhalmass Rayburton (one has to wonder why his parents named him after rice wrapped in grape leaves) finds the ring in Mulhorand ruins, somewhere just north of Cormyr. Now, some folks have chalked that up to a mistake in an early realms book... but was it? I think if Mulan culture is based on Imaskari culture, and the Imaskari were in the area, then it stands to reason Lord Rayburton actually discovered Thaeravelian ruins.
Once Halaster had learned all he can from the Netherese (and that's probably when Larloch first took note of him), he left to found his own enclave in Sargauth (Undermountain). He later leaves Sargauth, and during that time Netheril falls, and the enclave explodes. He returns much later and begins anew, with a new group of students. One has to wonder if he was a chosen of Mystryl (we are not sure on that one) - was he summoned by Mystryl to have him stop Karsus from completing his fated ritual? Larloch was also 'not at home' (in HIS enclave) when it crashed, and we know he was a Chosen of Mystryl - could it be she tried to get her Chosen to intervene, because she couldn't, but they were both too late? could the last thing both of them saw was the look in each other's eyes as Netheril fell? (both feeling shame for having failed their goddess). Halaster loses his mind (he was headed that way anyway), and Larloch becomes an embittered old lich. Makes you wonder about the 5e Azuth and Savras, eh?
Its not like they were 'friends', either. History does have a tendency to repeat itself. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Nov 2017 01:38:37 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2017 : 01:39:30
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Incidentally, Azuth was mad in the three last novels of the Brimstone Angels saga. He even made his own chosen, Ilstan, to went mad because his own madness. We don't know if he was healed after he became a god again.
BTW, as I see it, the Imaskari Godswall was a focused effect (only blocked gods from entering in the Astral plane of Toril and only if they came from the world of the ancestors of the mulani), while the Scepter was a more general thing (it blocked a god from Toril at all in any form). I believe that the perfected form of that spell (one that could block all gods from Toril at all) was underway when Netheril fell. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2017 : 13:40:42
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Lol, so throwing this together with my list of what I've been calling the "new" gods of magic:
Azuth: Spent the last century sharing a mind with the lord of the nine hells
Velsharoon: I've always felt he and Mellifleur were "sharing" Mellifleur's phylactery, and therefore "his duplicitous nature" was more a case of split personality
Leira: She lies, tells the truth, lies about lies, tells the truth about lying, constantly etc....
Savras: imprisoned away for centuries by the one god who ostensibly should have been his best friend, such that he has trust issues. Yet his closest ally in the past century has been the goddess of lies.
Karsus: nutbars as a mortal who saw all kinds of mortals ascending to godhood (Bane, Bhaal, Myrkul, Mellifleur), and decides he can do the same thing. Only to pick the most disastrous target, die, and have his stone body actually stay on Toril instead of the Astral... some sources indicating this creating the shadow weave.
Deneir: tried to write himself into the Metatext during the spellplague and disappeared (repercussions?)
The remaining "gods of magic" .... not sure of them, because either they just have a bare toehold and are more focused elsewhere (the Red Knight as a goddess of spell strategy, but more a goddess of tactics and warfare) or we don't know much about them (Auppenser, Kereska the Wonderbringer).
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2017 : 15:01:14
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The Scepter of the Sorcerer Kings is the fifth Imaskarcana, I think we can be sure it was made by an Imaskari Artificer.
Aye, I like that all the gods of magic are back but not necessarily the same. I really like a bonkers Azuth drifting towards LE...
Regarding the "multiple" astral planes of Toril, I actually have used it in most of my 3.5 campaigns, but more as a border made by the meddling of the worlds pantheons (i.e. the regional astral controlled by the Mulan pantheon, the Celestial Bureaucracy, the Faerunian Pantheon or the Zakhara enlightened faith) than as a impenetrable barrier that divides the cosmologies of other worlds. There is enough evidence for inter and intraplanar portals, planar rivers and astral projection into the vastness that is the Astral Skies that the astral plane goes well beyond the control of the deities. One can see this in planar rivers such as the Styx that crosses the borders of fiendish realms or the Celestial Shores lapping mount Celestia: you travel first the shores, then sea, then astral oceans and eventually reach domains that are considered locally tied to Oerth or Krynn, with shores lapping mount Celestia from a different angle. Astral Skies or Depths I have used as ways to eventually reach the positive (plane of radiance/soulforge) or negative planes (plane of void/annihilation). |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2017 : 05:59:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
The Scepter of the Sorcerer Kings is the fifth Imaskarcana, I think we can be sure it was made by an Imaskari Artificer.
So I was pretty-much 'on the money'.
That particular Scepter was taken from imaskar and later 'recovered' in the region of Netheril, so my scenario about Thaeravel and Halaster is somewhat more likely.
In fact, we can really go to town - what if the scepter was placed in some sort of 'arcanometric enhancer' (Imaskari magcal thingummie device), and its powered was increased and made 'perpetual' (so an artifact, placed inside another artifact, like how artifurnace work). Then Halaster steals it and brings it to Thaeravel.
The Mulan gods - having spent a century or three walking around the outside of the Crustal Sphere tapping it with a 10' pole, looking for 'secret doors', suddenly had one open up in front of Re/Ra; "Hey guys! I found a way in!"
Halaster's Highharvestide ain't got nuthin' on what happened next. 
He may have even done it at the orders of Mystryl. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Nov 2017 06:25:19 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2017 : 12:16:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
The Scepter of the Sorcerer Kings is the fifth Imaskarcana, I think we can be sure it was made by an Imaskari Artificer.
Just to make sure... from what resource?
This is what I see in the Book of Artifacts, which admittedly is very old (copyright 1993, where the Netheril boxed set is 1995).
In reading the history below, it doesn't exactly scream Netheril, as they weren't commonly known as running around "fighting gods. It also speaks of creating Anauroch by the Netherese involved, which would fit more with the concept that the Plains of Purple Dust had some formation with the godly battle (though we've also discussed Martek's involvement as well). In fact, it would sound more like something crafted AFTER the big godswar with the Imaskari (so after the Imaskarcana were created), but by remnants left from the Imaskari Empire (similar to how Thayd and his Theurgist Adepts stood up MUCH later). Makes me wonder if the Imaskari and godly manifestations didn't actually continue their war for say another couple centuries with remnants of the Imaskari from more far flung regions possibly picking off manifestations and destroying Mulan settlements.
It is said that in long-ago Netheril there lived sorcerer-kings of such might that they arrogantly considered themselves the equals of gods, and as if to prove their claim, they crafted items of truly reckless power. Their wanton destruction worried the other inhabitants of Faerun, and some even called on their gods to humble the mighty sorcerer-kings. The world shook with these battles, or so it is said. In their arrogance, the sorcerer-kings decided to rid themselves of these "meddling deities."
Instrumental in this evil plan was Glaeros Lhaerimm, a man many sages blame for causing the spread of Anauroch, the Great Desert. Glaeros crafted the Scepter in a grim process that drained the lives of a dozen apprentices. Noting his ambition, the deities sent minions to stop him, but each one was destroyed by the other sorcerer-kings. Finally, as Glaeros began the final stages, the divine minions broke through his defenses and destroyed him. The unfinished Scepter was then snatched up by another of the Netherese sorcerer-kings, who used it to escape the fray.
In the centuries since, the Scepter has turned up in the hands of many wizards and warlords, the most notable being the lich known as "the Harper King." Stolen from that undead ruler before his destruction, the Scepter disappeared from view for many years. A dozen years ago, a mysterious merchant-mage may have used it in Sembia, to fight free of an attack by the Red Wizards of Thay (who presumably knew what he bore). The whereabouts of this mage and the
Scepter are presently unknown. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 05 Nov 2017 12:23:01 |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2017 : 13:55:04
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Aye, the source is Lost Empires of Faerun and the piece was written by Ed Bonny. Its still possible that the scepter you speak of is a replica of the fifth Imaskarcana of some sort though.
Lord Artificer Omanond is credited with the command of the construction of all Imaskarcana and Lord-General Dimarond is said to have wield it during his battles on the stairs of the palace in Inupras. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2017 : 18:28:56
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To be honest, I would just take that 2e lore and adapt it to Imaskar, instead. At the time that was written Imaskar was barely even heard of (I think it may have first been named in The Horde boxed set). Netheril was THE 'big bad fallen empire' back then, that was dominating all our lore concerning Faerūn. It even got its own boxed set, even though it no longer existed. Then we have 3e with its new 'Sorcerer' class, which isn't anything at all how arcanists (wizards) worked.
I'd even spin it as an 'in setting' misconception. The scpeter was created in Imaskar, stolen, and then re-used by some Netherese (who, by the way, worshiped gods and NEVER tried to block any, thus making that lore suspect to begin with). Someone probably found it in Netherese ruins, assumed it was Netherese in origin*, and the brought it to same great sage or sold it to some wizard with a penchant for divination magic, they probably did some investigating (a spell) to see what it was, its history, and what it was used for, and it went something like this...
"In times long past, the ancient empire that now lies forgotten beneath the sands created the Scepter as a means to..."
And the Sage/Wizard copied that info in his notes, simply saying 'Netheril' for the first part, not even knowing about far-off Imaskar and its similar history. In later years, it probably baffled other Scholars who know that many Netherese were devout god-worshipers, and followers of Mytryl.
*EDIT:
And once again, if you use/adapt some of my homebrew lore regarding Thaeravel, it technically was 'Netherese', since it was Thaeravelian, and that Realm got folded into Netheril. Then everything works out, lore-wise.
EDIT2:
And I am loathe to even suggest this, but if you simply replace Hilathar with Glaeros Lhaerimm in my HB musings, it may all work out even better. I'm not fond of that, because of the other ways I've interconnected all the lore, but we can always say Halaster was just one more Sorcerer living in Thaeravel, along with Glaeros. They would have each had their own agenda (there may have been a whole group that left together, each building his own alabaster tower), and Halaster would have still been investigating alternative sources of power, including the Shadoweave... which he may have even inadvertently 'created', with his experimentation (unknowingly steered by Shar, of course).
Then Glaeros becomes the one who who pledges fealty to the Netherese and joins them. Then all the lore makes perfect sense (mostly). Halster can even still be the 'main man' who got Thaeravel started (an enclave for Imaskari sorcerers who were dabbling in things that their peers might not find to their liking).
EDIT3:
Although, it wouldn't really make sense for a guy like Glaeros to have left Imaskar voluntarily; not if he was the one responsible for the Godwall in the first place. More likely he knew about Hilathar's enclave, ad when the poop hit the fan (in Imaskar), he grabbed the scepter and fled... to Netheril. Because by the time, Thaeravel would have been long-fallen.
He may have even started his own enclave, as I've suggested Halaster did (although neither of them would have been 'Netherese enough' to create a flying enclave). That gives us the fun opportunity to imagine a 'godless' hidden enclave somewhere 9considering where i think Halaster built his - Sargauth - I'm thinking the Imaskari always had this thing about 'hiding underground'. Perhaps we can blame that on their (hypothetical) fey bloodlines, as well.
Related Theory: Perhaps something subterranean - most likely Faerzress radiation - interferes with scrying, which is why the Imaskari (and the fey before them) like to hide stuff (and themselves) underground. IIRC, Faerzress does do that.
Hmmmm... could The Tumulus actually be Gaelros' secret, 'god-proof' enclave?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Nov 2017 19:09:07 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2017 : 19:07:47
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Oh, and after reading through some doctor Strange (Marvel Comics) lore yesterday, I've decided to borrow even more from their 'magic history stuff'. I've always loved the way marvel did their cosmos (much more 'mystical' than DC ever did), and weirdly, Doc Strange was one of my least-favorite Marvel characters back when I still read comics. Seems I missed out on quite a bit of great story-telling.
I really like the whole Vishanti thing, and Hoggoth makes a great Marvel-aspect of Aslanobanion. The whole story-line involving Set and Chthon (I use 'Cthon') is just perfect for some of my Over-cosmology. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2017 : 23:25:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Aye, the source is Lost Empires of Faerun and the piece was written by Ed Bonny. Its still possible that the scepter you speak of is a replica of the fifth Imaskarcana of some sort though.
Lord Artificer Omanond is credited with the command of the construction of all Imaskarcana and Lord-General Dimarond is said to have wield it during his battles on the stairs of the palace in Inupras.
If anything, this proves that the two are NOT the same. The fifth Imaskarcana is something else entirely in LEoF than the item described in the book of artifacts.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2017 : 23:58:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
To be honest, I would just take that 2e lore and adapt it to Imaskar, instead. At the time that was written Imaskar was barely even heard of (I think it may have first been named in The Horde boxed set). Netheril was THE 'big bad fallen empire' back then, that was dominating all our lore concerning Faerūn. It even got its own boxed set, even though it no longer existed. Then we have 3e with its new 'Sorcerer' class, which isn't anything at all how arcanists (wizards) worked.
I'd even spin it as an 'in setting' misconception. The scpeter was created in Imaskar, stolen, and then re-used by some Netherese (who, by the way, worshiped gods and NEVER tried to block any, thus making that lore suspect to begin with). Someone probably found it in Netherese ruins, assumed it was Netherese in origin*, and the brought it to same great sage or sold it to some wizard with a penchant for divination magic, they probably did some investigating (a spell) to see what it was, its history, and what it was used for, and it went something like this...
"In times long past, the ancient empire that now lies forgotten beneath the sands created the Scepter as a means to..."
And the Sage/Wizard copied that info in his notes, simply saying 'Netheril' for the first part, not even knowing about far-off Imaskar and its similar history. In later years, it probably baffled other Scholars who know that many Netherese were devout god-worshipers, and followers of Mytryl.
*EDIT:
And once again, if you use/adapt some of my homebrew lore regarding Thaeravel, it technically was 'Netherese', since it was Thaeravelian, and that Realm got folded into Netheril. Then everything works out, lore-wise.
EDIT2:
And I am loathe to even suggest this, but if you simply replace Hilathar with Glaeros Lhaerimm in my HB musings, it may all work out even better. I'm not fond of that, because of the other ways I've interconnected all the lore, but we can always say Halaster was just one more Sorcerer living in Thaeravel, along with Glaeros. They would have each had their own agenda (there may have been a whole group that left together, each building his own alabaster tower), and Halaster would have still been investigating alternative sources of power, including the Shadoweave... which he may have even inadvertently 'created', with his experimentation (unknowingly steered by Shar, of course).
Then Glaeros becomes the one who who pledges fealty to the Netherese and joins them. Then all the lore makes perfect sense (mostly). Halster can even still be the 'main man' who got Thaeravel started (an enclave for Imaskari sorcerers who were dabbling in things that their peers might not find to their liking).
EDIT3:
Although, it wouldn't really make sense for a guy like Glaeros to have left Imaskar voluntarily; not if he was the one responsible for the Godwall in the first place. More likely he knew about Hilathar's enclave, ad when the poop hit the fan (in Imaskar), he grabbed the scepter and fled... to Netheril. Because by the time, Thaeravel would have been long-fallen.
He may have even started his own enclave, as I've suggested Halaster did (although neither of them would have been 'Netherese enough' to create a flying enclave). That gives us the fun opportunity to imagine a 'godless' hidden enclave somewhere 9considering where i think Halaster built his - Sargauth - I'm thinking the Imaskari always had this thing about 'hiding underground'. Perhaps we can blame that on their (hypothetical) fey bloodlines, as well.
Related Theory: Perhaps something subterranean - most likely Faerzress radiation - interferes with scrying, which is why the Imaskari (and the fey before them) like to hide stuff (and themselves) underground. IIRC, Faerzress does do that.
Hmmmm... could The Tumulus actually be Gaelros' secret, 'god-proof' enclave?
Let's go a simpler path. Glaeros was an Imaskari. It fits the story of sorcerers against gods. It fits a magical desert getting created. Maybe Glaeros is a very powerful Imaskari, and when the emperor dies.... he jets along with dozens of other powerful Imaskari to another major city of Imaskar. When he leaves, he takes the item which is a key somehow to the Imaskari Godswall (what this item is, I'm not defining). He then hides this key away, but not before studying it to get a base understanding of what the original Imaskari who built the Godswall had achieved. It leads him down the path to create the Scepter of the Sorcerer Kings, in hopes of creating an item that can eject specific deities manifestations physically out of the crystal sphere when used against them. It will theoretically also prevent said body from being able to cross the shell of the crystal sphere ever again (thus the need to make a NEW manifestation and transport it in). It should be noted that this would work against any Toril bound deity, including many demi-gods.
The manifestations of the Mulan deities get wind of this creation, from none other than Assuran, Lord of the Three Thunders.... who had seen the powerful lust for revenge in Glaeros' heart despite the man not being a follower of the gods. They send divine minions to assault Glaeros and interrupt the ritual sealing the magic of the artifact, and as a result, the magic goes awry (though one wonders if it ever would have worked exactly as he had hoped). Specifically, Assuran has twisted the magic, so that it instead randomly affects other deities, such that this Glaeros or anyone who uses it will become the enemy of ALL gods (a fitting bit of poetic justice).
The assault on Glaeros is deadly, and it devastates a portion of the Raurin, forcing the spread of the plains of purple dust. Several other Sorcerer Kings die. One escapes with the scepter, and eventually it ends up in a Netherese enclave. Someone later loots said enclave and performs a "reading" of the psychic imprint of the artifact and gets imagery of "sorcerers fighting gods" and a "land being turned into desert during the fight". Being that the exact nature of Anauroch's creation is little known, the people confuse this and believe that they've seen Anauroch's creation when some Netherese wizards fought against deities.
Oh, and later, during the time of troubles... some god finds that key that had been hidden away which was forcing the Mulan gods to stay in manifestation form. They assume that somehow THIS is how Ao is keeping them bound to Toril. Said god decides he's going to destroy this key and use its energy to return to the outer planes. Who was this god? What happened to him? It would probably make a darn good story, no? Tell me who YOU think would make for a good god to have done this. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 06 Nov 2017 00:05:49 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2017 : 00:32:40
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Aye, the source is Lost Empires of Faerun and the piece was written by Ed Bonny. Its still possible that the scepter you speak of is a replica of the fifth Imaskarcana of some sort though.
Lord Artificer Omanond is credited with the command of the construction of all Imaskarcana and Lord-General Dimarond is said to have wield it during his battles on the stairs of the palace in Inupras.
If anything, this proves that the two are NOT the same. The fifth Imaskarcana is something else entirely in LEoF than the item described in the book of artifacts.
There are (canonically) two sets of Imaskarna - a 'lesser' set, and a set of 'Greater Imaskarcana'. They had to do that because they were written up in Dragon Magazine, and then someone didn't realize that and wrote up a different set somewhere.
Which is why there now has to be three sets of Nether scrolls - the Netherese don't like the Imaskari catching up to them. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2017 : 01:24:11
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I'm surprised you didn't jump all over The Tumulus - I know how much you love a good mystery.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Let's go a simpler path. Glaeros was an Imaskari. It fits the story of sorcerers against gods. It fits a magical desert getting created. Maybe Glaeros is a very powerful Imaskari, and when the emperor dies.... he jets along with dozens of other powerful Imaskari to another major city of Imaskar. When he leaves, he takes the item which is a key somehow to the Imaskari Godswall (what this item is, I'm not defining). He then hides this key away, but not before studying it to get a base understanding of what the original Imaskari who built the Godswall had achieved. It leads him down the path to create the Scepter of the Sorcerer Kings, in hopes of creating an item that can eject specific deities manifestations physically out of the crystal sphere when used against them. It will theoretically also prevent said body from being able to cross the shell of the crystal sphere ever again (thus the need to make a NEW manifestation and transport it in). It should be noted that this would work against any Toril bound deity, including many demi-gods.
The manifestations of the Mulan deities get wind of this creation, from none other than Assuran, Lord of the Three Thunders.... who had seen the powerful lust for revenge in Glaeros' heart despite the man not being a follower of the gods. They send divine minions to assault Glaeros and interrupt the ritual sealing the magic of the artifact, and as a result, the magic goes awry (though one wonders if it ever would have worked exactly as he had hoped). Specifically, Assuran has twisted the magic, so that it instead randomly affects other deities, such that this Glaeros or anyone who uses it will become the enemy of ALL gods (a fitting bit of poetic justice).
The assault on Glaeros is deadly, and it devastates a portion of the Raurin, forcing the spread of the plains of purple dust. Several other Sorcerer Kings die. One escapes with the scepter, and eventually it ends up in a Netherese enclave. Someone later loots said enclave and performs a "reading" of the psychic imprint of the artifact and gets imagery of "sorcerers fighting gods" and a "land being turned into desert during the fight". Being that the exact nature of Anauroch's creation is little known, the people confuse this and believe that they've seen Anauroch's creation when some Netherese wizards fought against deities.
I almost feel like you started simplifing it, and then re-complicated it. Its not all that different from mine (we just both spun it to our own HB lore).
Artifact gets created in Imaskar, artifact gets transported/stolen out of Imaskar and wind up in Netheril. Artifact is later found after Netheril falls, and people 'misinterpret' their divinations about it (two mighty magical empires both turned into desert due to the hubris of their Mages).
I think, perhaps, I like what you did there with the 'key' - that was nice. Then we don't have to get into the whole 'was it or wasn't it an Imaskarna (and greater or lesser)?
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Oh, and later, during the time of troubles... some god finds that key that had been hidden away which was forcing the Mulan gods to stay in manifestation form. They assume that somehow THIS is how Ao is keeping them bound to Toril. Said god decides he's going to destroy this key and use its energy to return to the outer planes. Who was this god? What happened to him? It would probably make a darn good story, no? Tell me who YOU think would make for a good god to have done this.
An unknown (in Toril) God, because what the Godwall magic actually does is make people forget about gods; if no-one within a sphere is a follower, the God is automatically blocked as per Ao's rules. A God simply cannot enter a sphere in which not a single mortal being is thinking about them (unless granted access by the Sphere's guardian Overpower).
So you can basically use any god you want (to bring itno the Realms, in your game - its a great 'all-purpose McGuffin'), including ones from real pantheons, ones from other settings, ones from non-FR novels, or one you make-up whole cloth.
We have several gods in Faer0n who are 'forgotten' (their name, unlike 'lost gods', who just couldn't find their way home LOL). Finder was one, Kiaransalee another. There is that power 'trapped' somewhere off the coast of Aglarond that no-one remembers (and while I am in the vicinity, several Yuir Totems as well).
And then there is the 'human creator god', but I think people forgot his name MUCH further back in the past. Like 1st Sundering old.
Maybe the scepter went to Golarion for a time, about a century back (like when the Spellplague hit)? Maybe that's what happened to Aroden? Someone locked him out?
Hey Paizo, I just used The Forgotten Realms to explain your entire setting.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 06 Nov 2017 01:30:56 |
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