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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2017 :  03:15:16  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Osiris is kind of lame as a death god. I want something more Anubisish.
Then again, its not like Kelemvor would have been any better - another 'snore fest'.

And BTW, I got the new /old (4e) continental outline done - its WAY cooler than WotC's map (because this one was based on the much bigger 1e/2e terrain layout). Got most of the river systems rerouted as well. Now I just have to find something to pour into all those huge holes (I hadn't realized Faerūn gained so many 'ass-cracks' LOL), chop some trees, and redo all my layer masks (yet again), and that should do. Push one button and the 1e/2e map turns into the 4e map. Then its on to the hybrid 5e map.

Can't wait to show a WIP - hopefully tomorrow - been VERY busy doing RW stuff. If I have the time, I might even throw some labels on this one (because unlike the other 'master map', I NEVER plan to do smaller, detailed ones of 4e).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2441 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2017 :  04:01:56  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, I hope you can show us that WIP soon.

Well, reading the info that Tom shared to me, it seems that in Planescape, Anubis evolved into something beyond a god (after Osiris stoled his portfolios and left him to die in the Astral Plane... add jerk to Osiris' lame traits). Anubis somehow got powered up by the divine essence of dead powers (or still-living but nearly dead powers) who feared "desecration"(whatever this means for a dead power) and sought out a guardian... so, Anubis evolved into something that its "beyond a god". He is now the Guardian of Dead Powers in the Astral Plane (this is canon Planescape).

Buuuuuut, Anubis is in the list of Egyptian gods in 5e, so... what if the uncaring Uber-god (or whatever) wanted to know what the heck was happening in this sphere named Abeir-Toril, seeing many powers being killed in a really short period of time (ToT-Spellplague), so he created and created an incarnation through a descendant... or, better, created the Raven Queen, and as goddess of fate and death, and sent her (or the incarnation) to Toril to learn what was happening... mmm.

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 16 Aug 2017 04:28:04
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2017 :  13:33:06  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
>>>This struck a chord in my head - shouldn't we just say that 'Incarnations' are just another variety of Chosen (Exarch) at this point?This struck a chord in my head - shouldn't we just say that 'Incarnations' are just another variety of Chosen (Exarch) at this point?>>>


The one big problem with this is that GENERALLY being a chosen gives a simple template with X,Y,Z extra powers and the character is assumed to be a relatively high level character. I honestly don't think some of the "Chosen" that were walking around during the Sundering were "Chosen". I bet several were incarnations.

Meanwhile, an incarnation is insta-leveled. You have a template per se, but you instantly have this huge power bonus. I would say that they don't stack as well (i.e. you'd have to be careful if the incarnation actually levels as a character as well.. and while I see extra hit dice as being ok, there might be some class abilities that maybe won't on a case by case basis). To be clear here, we'd be talking things like an 11 year old kid who suddenly has like 20 hit dice, and possibly a strength of 20-22 or somesuch. They also get spellcasting ability equivalent to X, Y,Z kind of casters maybe of A,B,C levels each. If anything, perhaps an incarnation might be better called the same things as a weakened avatar, BUT with free will, but it would be best if they weren't THAT powerful.


Just to give an example, here's the 2e stat block of an incarnation of Horus-Re. Bear in mind, that in the below the maximum strength a GOD could have was 25 back then, and the strength of 21 was Frost Giant Strength level (strength 23 now). A lot of this would get changed around now to have like natural armor, bonus hit dice instead of a set hit points, probably like a huge bonus to stats instead of set stats (like +8 or so to up to 4 stats). But the main thing was killing an incarnation was a BIG DEAL. It also explains why no matter what level their common citizens became, there was never an overthrow of the Pharaonic families. They didn't oppress their people per se, but they also did expect their will enacted. They did have a very caste system, though it was a lot more able to be upwardly mobile than say Unther.

Incarnation
AC: +1
MOVE: 15
HIT POINTS: 150
THAC0: 6
#AT: 2
DMG/ATT: 1d6 + 12/1d6 + 12
MR: 50%
CLASSES: Fighter 15, Priest 14, Mage 16
STR 21(+4, +9) DEX 22 CON 21 INT 21
WIS 20 CHA 21
Weapon: Staff +3
Armor: None (AC 4 is natural, plus DEX adjustment)
Other Items: Per individual incarnation
SA: The incarnation of Horus-Re has an awe effect, at will, that causes all creatures up to 4HD (or levels) to be stunned while in his presence.
SD: High Intelligence makes him immune to all illusion/phantasm spells of 3rd level or lower; high Wisdom grants
him immunity to the following spells: cause fear, charm person, command, friends, hypnotism, forget, hold person,
ray of enfeeblement, scare.

The manifestation of Horus-Re appears as a muscular man with the head of a hawk. The incarnations of Horus-Re are human in appearance but have facial features that suggest a hawk (sharp nose, glittering eyes). They may also speak with birds at will.

Incarnations
All have the following abilities:
Command (two-round duration) (1)
Comprehend Languages/Tongues
Detect Good/Evil Dispel Magic (2)
Detect Lie (3)
Know Alignment (at will)
Polymorph Self (at will)
Summon Minion (1)
Teleport (no error)
True Seeing (1)

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2017 :  13:35:22  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Osiris is kind of lame as a death god. I want something more Anubisish.
Then again, its not like Kelemvor would have been any better - another 'snore fest'.

And BTW, I got the new /old (4e) continental outline done - its WAY cooler than WotC's map (because this one was based on the much bigger 1e/2e terrain layout). Got most of the river systems rerouted as well. Now I just have to find something to pour into all those huge holes (I hadn't realized Faerūn gained so many 'ass-cracks' LOL), chop some trees, and redo all my layer masks (yet again), and that should do. Push one button and the 1e/2e map turns into the 4e map. Then its on to the hybrid 5e map.

Can't wait to show a WIP - hopefully tomorrow - been VERY busy doing RW stuff. If I have the time, I might even throw some labels on this one (because unlike the other 'master map', I NEVER plan to do smaller, detailed ones of 4e).



Bear in mind, Anubis IS kind of in the forgotten realms. He's the guardian of dead gods in the astral.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2017 :  13:39:35  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

We can always give them the Raven Queen.




By the way, with all this talk of the Raven Queen and kenku, it decided me down a path. I'm going to include her not in Faerun, but rather in Katashaka and Anchorome where I have a lot of bird humanoid folk. I will also have the Vulture King, Heresa Hesi, who is the god of the dead, but the two fill different roles... one is of the act of death, the other of the dead. Also, while they'll be in a "pantheon" it will be more or less one culture may note one or the other or both. Also, in these cultures, she will appear differently. It gives me a good way to be able to port her into the realms without impacting Faerun heavily.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2017 :  13:46:06  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

Oh, I hope you can show us that WIP soon.

Well, reading the info that Tom shared to me, it seems that in Planescape, Anubis evolved into something beyond a god (after Osiris stoled his portfolios and left him to die in the Astral Plane... add jerk to Osiris' lame traits). Anubis somehow got powered up by the divine essence of dead powers (or still-living but nearly dead powers) who feared "desecration"(whatever this means for a dead power) and sought out a guardian... so, Anubis evolved into something that its "beyond a god". He is now the Guardian of Dead Powers in the Astral Plane (this is canon Planescape).

Buuuuuut, Anubis is in the list of Egyptian gods in 5e, so... what if the uncaring Uber-god (or whatever) wanted to know what the heck was happening in this sphere named Abeir-Toril, seeing many powers being killed in a really short period of time (ToT-Spellplague), so he created and created an incarnation through a descendant... or, better, created the Raven Queen, and as goddess of fate and death, and sent her (or the incarnation) to Toril to learn what was happening... mmm.



Just to note, from the Egyptian pantheon, there are two special gods. Anubis is guardian of dead gods. Ptah is a god of wildspace and as well, and thus Ptah can be prayed to any where (except the Phlogiston... I don't think any god can go there).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2017 :  14:36:02  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
First, no-one ever said 'Chosen' HAVE TO be powerful. A god can make anyone 'Chosen'. The problem is, gods have learned to make their Chosen from already-powerful mortals, to increase their survivability. In the Old Empires, this might not be as much of a problem, since Incarnations are worshiped as gods (so Joe Assassin from the Temple of Creepoids isn't going to try and slit their throat... at least not as much as such a thing would happen north and west of that region). It may just be a 'cultural thing'.

Good point about Anubis - I like seeing others embracing the 'D&D canon IS FR canon' philosophy.

Connecting the Raven Queen to kenku is a bit weird, but no stranger then some of my own ideas about her. Recently I've become a big anime fan (thanks to my two younger boys), and they have a character in Narutuo - Itachi Uchiha - who can turn into a flock of Ravens (pretty helpful for scouting, but also when someone is trying to hit you). I was thinking a character like that would make a good High Priest/Chosen of TRQ. And then I thought, "she'd actually be a pretty good fit in the K-T stuff regardless" - she seems very much like their concept of 'Kami'. And now that you've mentioned Kenku, the east has their own variety of those, and it all comes full circle (some in the Taan, and another 'bird type' in the Psuedo-Japan islands).

I know Ptah is in The Realms (Realmspace) - I've even used him in a piece I wrote concerning the Time of Troubles (and the 'god' Monkey). In my homebrew Over-Cosmology, I actually have him as the dwarven 'High God' (he IS a dwarf, after all).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 16 Aug 2017 14:38:16
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 17 Aug 2017 :  02:01:47  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Connecting the Raven Queen to kenku is a bit weird, but no stranger then some of my own ideas about her.



I thought so too, but its been done according to the dragon article, so as long as its done in canon, might as well use it. That being said, that means we would have to tie her to Quorlinn as his creator (and it also means the sky god mentioned below is female and not male).

From monster mythology

Quorlinn is a strange god who is featured in many obscure myths as a botched experiment in creation by a powerful nonlawful sky god too embarassed to admit his failure. However, Quorlinn proves his worth in a series of dubious escapades involving trickery, deceit, disguise, and thievery, often escaping with some tail feathers missing, to bring his creator some choice item. The greater god relents and Quorlinn has a race created in his image.

Unfortunately, Quorlinn isn't enthralled by this. He doesh't want the responsibility of his own race and whines continually about being weighed down by it; possibly, this is a defense because he isn't uncaring, but may feel himself too weak to be a good protector. Hence, he teaches kenku thievery, disguise, and magical skills and hopes they can stand up for themselves.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1621 Posts

Posted - 17 Aug 2017 :  02:17:59  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Osiris is kind of lame as a death god. I want something more Anubisish.
Then again, its not like Kelemvor would have been any better - another 'snore fest'.

And BTW, I got the new /old (4e) continental outline done - its WAY cooler than WotC's map (because this one was based on the much bigger 1e/2e terrain layout). Got most of the river systems rerouted as well. Now I just have to find something to pour into all those huge holes (I hadn't realized Faerūn gained so many 'ass-cracks' LOL), chop some trees, and redo all my layer masks (yet again), and that should do. Push one button and the 1e/2e map turns into the 4e map. Then its on to the hybrid 5e map.

Can't wait to show a WIP - hopefully tomorrow - been VERY busy doing RW stuff. If I have the time, I might even throw some labels on this one (because unlike the other 'master map', I NEVER plan to do smaller, detailed ones of 4e).



Bear in mind, Anubis IS kind of in the forgotten realms. He's the guardian of dead gods in the astral.



Not the same as being in Realm space.

But he did send Jackle Headed Hound Archons with the Gods who did go.

You have to be careful with stuff from Planescape, not everything that happens i. Planescape impacts FR, it can get complicated.

But the Gods who didn't go are still acknowledged, like Nut, Anubis, ect..., its just that they aren't the focus in Mulhorand religion. They have no churches.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 17 Aug 2017 :  03:40:50  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Whelp, I did it...

4th edition Forgotten Realms Map.

The map I swore I would never do.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 17 Aug 2017 03:41:13
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2017 :  03:02:59  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay, now that thats out of the way, honestly, I thought there'd be some responses in this thread, considering I made it because of the discussion going on here.

How much should I 'repair'? For the Old Empires I was thinking 'about halfway' (but not precisely - some places will keep their entire 4e coast/layout, while others will be put-back mostly how they were, and the rest, something in the middle. I think that sounds about right, considering what we do know (which isn't a lot).

But I had planned to put the rest - stuff outside the OE - back the way it was, fully. But maybe not? Should I get creative? Like, other then Ao snapped his fingers, why would rivers go back to their old courses? Did we loose hills in some places, and gain them in others? The Underchasm seems to have swallowed-up some, but the Maw of the Godswallower (why do I think of Sharess every time I see that?) did more, actually. If Ao (with Grumbar's help) put the physical mass of the earth back, did he put the terrain back precisely the way it was? Is the 'Maw' still there? What happened there is a bit different than what happened in the other locations...


And should I completely 'close' those as well? I kind of like the Landsmouth (but I'd make it MUCH smaller - narrower, at the very least). What about the Deep Maw (In Anauroch, next to the Fallen Lands)? Neither of those are on Mike Schley's 5e map, so should I just assume all that just up and disappeared? Strategically placed, both of those could prove useful (especially if I tweak their sizes).

Southern coast? Go halfway with that? 3/4 fixed? I kind of like Luiren with the islands, but I'd lose that big honkin' sea (The Dead Hin Sea - I created it, so I can loose it). I'm pretty sure I know how t go with most of that, but what about the Golden Waters? I always loved that region, and it got trashed. Even if it got fixed, the old settlements would have gotten ruined (I turned the area where the sea receded into a giant swamp - it makes up for the one we lost by Halruaa).

And how quickly did everything get 'repaired'? From what I understand, the Underchasm isn't finished being filled? Or am I remembering that wrong? I am picturing ships getting stranded miles inland , but that would only happen if the seas receded extremely (magically) rapidly. Did it happen that quickly? Does it even say how fast it happened? Can we tell just by going by the years in the editions? (the close of 4e vs the first stuff set in 5e).

I really do appreciate that they 'reset' the maps of the Heartlands for 5e, but by the same token, I'd like to take this opportunity to do something more interesting 'further afield'. I'm thinking about leaving most of that 'squiggly-ness' with the coast of Mulhorand - it looks pretty cool like that.

Warforged are from 'Returned Lantan', right?
I want something interesting for Sultim... Changelings? Shifters might work better with the lore, though (Lythari in the Taan & UE region). Still, shifters aren't right for a city environment. Hmmmm...

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 18 Aug 2017 03:06:58
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2441 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2017 :  04:33:05  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Okay, now that thats out of the way, honestly, I thought there'd be some responses in this thread, considering I made it because of the discussion going on here.


Oh, I was waiting for the 5e one to comment

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

How much should I 'repair'? For the Old Empires I was thinking 'about halfway' (but not precisely - some places will keep their entire 4e coast/layout, while others will be put-back mostly how they were, and the rest, something in the middle. I think that sounds about right, considering what we do know (which isn't a lot).


Yeah, I'm for this approach as well.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

If Ao (with Grumbar's help) put the physical mass of the earth back, did he put the terrain back precisely the way it was? Is the 'Maw' still there? What happened there is a bit different than what happened in the other locations...


That is an interesting question.

According to this topic, Grumbar actually didn't filled up all the Underschasm. Just almost all of it.

quote:
Originally posted by Lirdolin

The Underchasm is filled with earth in the process. [...]
(*Note: The East Rift is probably not filled up, as the earth does not rise higher then Sadrak's Splinter, which lay on lower ground than the Rift before the Spellplague.)


So, I guess the land is not as it was before the Spellplague.

As for the Maw, I guess it depends if someone here wants it or not. It wasn't as big as the Underchasm, so, I can see Grumbar not having the necessity of filling it up.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

And should I completely 'close' those as well? I kind of like the Landsmouth (but I'd make it MUCH smaller - narrower, at the very least). What about the Deep Maw (In Anauroch, next to the Fallen Lands)? Neither of those are on Mike Schley's 5e map, so should I just assume all that just up and disappeared?


I guess in canon they disappeared. So, if you want them to remain, go ahead.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Southern coast? Go halfway with that? 3/4 fixed? I kind of like Luiren with the islands, but I'd lose that big honkin' sea (The Dead Hin Sea - I created it, so I can loose it). I'm pretty sure I know how t go with most of that, but what about the Golden Waters? I always loved that region, and it got trashed. Even if it got fixed, the old settlements would have gotten ruined (I turned the area where the sea receded into a giant swamp - it makes up for the one we lost by Halruaa).


I'm ok with 3/4.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

And how quickly did everything get 'repaired'? From what I understand, the Underchasm isn't finished being filled?


We now there was a one year "Great Rain" (yeah, a year-full deluge... yet, there were no casualties in canon).

Then, in TDYK, we learn that the transposing was nearly instantaneous.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Warforged are from 'Returned Lantan', right?.



I guess. They say in the SCAG that current lantanese technology seems "more advanced". That means that Aibeiran technology is pretty advanced (Erin even said that the healers of Tymanther are more proficient in healing without magic that the rest of healers in Faerūn).

Mmm... this gives me some ideas for Returned Halruaa...

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2017 :  05:58:59  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
TDYK?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2441 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2017 :  06:11:28  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Devil You Know. xDD Sorry, I tend to abbreviate everything since I wrote my compilation document about the Nentir Vale history.

Tho, I was wrong. The book were we saw the "change" is in Ashes of the Tyrant. And goes on like:

quote:


A storm is coming, Dumuzi thought. “The Blue Fire is coming.”

“That can’t happen!” one of the patriarchs shouted.

But the pressure in Dumuzi’s head became exultant and fearful all at once, as if now, finally, Dumuzi understood him. As if now, finally, the warning was clear: The world is about to end. Tymanther is in grave danger. He cannot let it happen again.

I have no children. He needed believers. He needed someone to anchor him to this world. You have to take the yoke, Dumuzi thought.

“Help us,” Dumuzi implored. “What one cannot do, many can manage. Be one of ours, please, one of our many.” He reached beyond himself, for the growing presence of the god.

And the god reached back as Abeir returned once more.

THE LAND REMEMBERS what the people forget: where the mountains were, where the shoreline lay, where the grasslands stretched flat and where caverns crawled beneath the surface. Where magic pulsed within it. It remembers what was, what is, what shall be again. When the planes unite, it knows what will come and what will go.

From the vantage of overgods, the planes kiss as they pass, but the land remembers this violence: earthquake, flood, unnatural fire. For the people, some will survive while some will take the brunt of Abeir’s return—it doesn’t matter to the land. It was, it is, it shall be.

But from the vantage of overgods, one thing is changed: an island in the storm, a city born of both worlds. The force of the planes passing through one another is enough to level it, the way it leveled the tower that once stood in its place. Magic, birthed by union and disunion, rolls toward the stone city like a tidal wave … only to break upon a wall of lightning that curves around the city like the wings of a mother vulture.



The Wall is Enlil's protective wall.

Notice, this is before he re-enters the Realms... it seems that beyond the spheres, the gods have their powers, even without followers.

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2017 :  06:21:04  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Enlil is multispheric - the Pharonics are worshiped on many worlds.

Thanks for both the definition and the correction (and the information). Now I have a starting point.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 18 Aug 2017 19:03:48
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2017 :  19:15:24  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have several ideas, now that I'm redrawing stuff, and one that came to me last night even had some lore attached:

"In the final years before the Conjuncture of Worlds, Kauth - acclaimed to be 'the greatest cartographer in Faerūn who ever lived - claimed to be having visions of people and places no-one had seen before. Of dramatic, landscape-changing events and arrivals that would alter the face of Toril forevermore. Most chalked it up to his age, and a lifetime of drawing 'fantastical places' he would never actually get to see. He began work on a new set of maps - odd, bizarre, twisted versions of our world. And although it was one of his most beautiful sets of work, it was neither the Toril we knew, nor did they even have internal consistency - features changed and twisted even within the same set. Rivers and realms would disappear or appear whole-cloth. Mountain ranges would change their orientation, and in one case, completely disappear. The townsfolk tried to take care of him the best they could, feeling he was becoming more and more 'addle-coved' with his advancing years.

In the end, he passed. It happened to be the morning of the day the Great Cerulean Wave washed across our world. In hindsight, looking back at those strange maps he drew in his final years, we can now see some of the features therein had become fact during the Wailing Years. Over the course of the next century, rivers changed course, and terrain features - and realms - came and went. And with each significant change, we could find some semblance of what happened on one of Kauth's maps. Even after the Great Rain, we are still seeing some features becoming reality, and the frightening part is, there are still many things we have not... yet. Who's to say if 'the Gods' are done with us; are done torturing the land? But Kauth will go down in the annals of history now as not only one of the greatest cartographers The Realms have ever seen, but also as a seer with an amazing gift. A gift to see the world that is, was, and will be."

--- Parrai Reese, Keeper of Maps at Candlekeep



And here is my idea - I am actually going to use a little bit of the 3e maps to do the 5e map. Before people start screaming and pulling their hair out - I am only going to do this where it doesn't really affect anything at all. ATM, I am just talking about Aglarond, which was MUCH better detailed in 3e. In fact, the whole of the Unapproachable East was (although I am yet-undecided how far I want to take this plan).

EDIT:
Okay, I just did yet-another layout of the Unapproachable East, and unlike my main (Continental) map where I 'backwards-engineered' 3e features into it, this time I pasted all the maps from the UE book directly in, and will follow them precisely. I did have to do some sleight rotations (I think Thesk caught the brunt of that), but otherwise I got them to fit fairly well.

The point of this exercise being: I am retroactively making the 3e maps in that book NOT canon to that era! Some 'foolish scribe' used some of Kauth's later, inaccurate maps to give to Elminster to pass on to Ed Greenwood, and no-one seemed to have caught the mistake... until now.

Why would I take such a bizarre approach? Because NOW that book - at least the maps in it (and the general information, like the history) can be used as a 5e sourcebook. Of course, Thay's a bit of problem, but the only folks really knowing whats going on in Thay are the folks who 'live' there... and they're not talking. Unless they do something completely unexpected - like give us an actual 5e Unapproachable East sourcebook - I think this might be the perfect approach to that area (and yeah, I know this is a thread about the Old Empires, but it all pertains to the changes to the terrain in 5e, and both regions are ones not yet covered by any maps).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Zeromaru X
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Colombia
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Posted - 18 Aug 2017 :  19:22:10  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We will see a book about Cormyr before they would make one about the Unapproachable East.

I guess that, now that you have the map, is time to see how we will advance the timeline of the area...well, the ones interested about it. Like sleyvas and aldrick.

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...
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Markustay
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Posted - 18 Aug 2017 :  19:51:15  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yup, and you can save whatever you want, anyway you want. It went to abeir, it didn't go to abeir but was somehow 'hidden', was turned into a ruin, even though an 'echo' of it went somewhere else (the shadowfell/RL is perfect for that), or even that 'people were simply mistaken' and it was fine. Hell, if things can get shifted to other worlds*, why couldn't some things have been shifted around more locally? We've already said that to account for some of the map-weirdness between editions, but what if some things somehow went even further? What if one settlement from the Old Empires went someplace right on Toril? Like Kara-Tur, Maztica, or Zakhara? What if, instead, a particular settlement 'came back', but the people there were different - changed by wherever they went (even if it was someplace else on Toril). It would be a great way to bring in anything you want, like a 'Cult of Kali' from Malatra. Or just have new settlements - the more the merrier. I can see a group of Kalashtar or Inspired from Sarlona (Eberron) being VERY confused. Or what if one FR settlement had gone to Dal Quor (a place in the Plane of dreams), and has now come back? New FR Kalashtar (or Inspired)?


*Just leave Sultim alone. I have plans for Sultim. For some reason that 'wayward' city always held a special place in my heart (A city - and MAJOR trade hub - that is technically part of Thay, and sits right beneath Thay's nose, is left completely alone by Thay... ignored, even. Granted 'semi-autonomous' status, even! Something VERY interesting is going on there, me thinks).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
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Posted - 18 Aug 2017 :  22:13:48  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Yup, and you can save whatever you want, anyway you want. It went to abeir, it didn't go to abeir but was somehow 'hidden', was turned into a ruin, even though an 'echo' of it went somewhere else (the shadowfell/RL is perfect for that), or even that 'people were simply mistaken' and it was fine. Hell, if things can get shifted to other worlds*, why couldn't some things have been shifted around more locally? We've already said that to account for some of the map-weirdness between editions, but what if some things somehow went even further? What if one settlement from the Old Empires went someplace right on Toril? Like Kara-Tur, Maztica, or Zakhara? What if, instead, a particular settlement 'came back', but the people there were different - changed by wherever they went (even if it was someplace else on Toril). It would be a great way to bring in anything you want, like a 'Cult of Kali' from Malatra. Or just have new settlements - the more the merrier. I can see a group of Kalashtar or Inspired from Sarlona (Eberron) being VERY confused. Or what if one FR settlement had gone to Dal Quor (a place in the Plane of dreams), and has now come back? New FR Kalashtar (or Inspired)?


*Just leave Sultim alone. I have plans for Sultim. For some reason that 'wayward' city always held a special place in my heart (A city - and MAJOR trade hub - that is technically part of Thay, and sits right beneath Thay's nose, is left completely alone by Thay... ignored, even. Granted 'semi-autonomous' status, even! Something VERY interesting is going on there, me thinks).



Technically Sultim is a part of Mulhorand. That being said, I don't have big plans for it.

Without doing some major responding to individual emails, I'll detail some of what I think. Some of this you already know as well.

I'm of the vote to bring back the area of the Underchasm and Great Rift pretty much the same, but with more cities, making the soil richer and basically adding to and changing to the culture of the area (but hopefully in a believable way). Basically, the Tharch of Peleveran, which I'm currently writing up, and I hope to make my first United Tharchs entry on the DMs Guild. Also, it will be less Savannah and more like Peleveran was, with a bit more tree-cloaked land and less dryness like the dragons left it.

That being said, I do want to make one kind of major change to the terrain.

As far as gods, I intend to mainly have a lot of nature / elemental deities OR deities of magic involved with the culture. This will include the Untheric goddess Ki, the barbarian god Khass (a rain god specific to the Shaar and mentioned in the 2e Complete Barbarian's handbook), Kiga the Predator (a female version of Malar favored by the Crintri refugees while they didn't have Loviatar). I also intend to have this Tharch having a focus on elementalism (meanwhile there will be another side which favors "trickery" and mental control, etc..). I intend to include small factions of refugees from High Imaskar and "renegade red wizards" from Halruaa (and by that, I mean Halruaan rebels) that fled Halruaa during the spellplague years to go to this new Tharch.

I also want to include a new "rift" or crevasse in the earth which goes from the great rift up to where Hardcastle is on the tip of the Chondalwood. I'm calling this Ki's Cleft. Here's my writeup so far

[b[ Ki's Cleft - [/b] It is said that Ki's avatar form appeared from the nearby forest of Chondalwood during the Sundering and that her presence sent great swells of green glowing energy throughout the Tharch. Still, even as she anchored the lands surrounding her, a cleft grew in the land beneath her two feet, until finally, her legs spread wide across across the great gash in the earth, she seemingly passed out and fell in and seemingly disappeared. Since then, it has become a common ritual for the people of this monastery and the cities of Hardcastle and Valastia to make a pilgrimage to the edge of “Ki's Cleft” to mate in the dirt if a pair of lovers seek to become pregnant. There are even many who have begun working the earthen walls on each side of Ki's Cleft to form another cliffside city similar to Peleveria, as well as small temples dedicted to not only Ki but also Grumbar and Istishia.

This cleft actually reaches all the way down to the Great Rift, where it has a small opening high up on the north wall of the Great Rift. This has created a beautiful waterfall in the side of the Great Rift that has allowed the dwarves of the Great Rift to proceed northward. The cleft has been found to be rich in both minerals and metals, and thus many dwarves have offered their services to the humans who wish to build cliffside settlements in return for the rights to any metals they find in addition to the fees they charge for the work.



As to what to do with the Maw of the Godswallower, I can't see leaving it as blank space, UNLESS you want to make it some kind of portal to the far realms or someplace else that is nasty that threatens the area. Personally, you've heard my idea of having a copy of a portion of Abeir coming over. I called it the "Red Mineral Forest of Shyr", and I was going to include that it held the Citadel of Burning Ice that belonged to Karshimis (but Karshimis didn't come over). In said citadel, after some discussion here, I decided to have Karshimis' dragon mount captured and his blood is "burning" the constantly growing ice. It is his blood and the resulting melting ice water which has turned the surrounding land red, and I was going to do something with the forest just making it alien. Ironically, I also extended this crystalline forest to butt up directly with the Maerchwood, which has become a totally petrified forest in Toril. Not sure how the dragon blood might affect it, but it could be a story. Anyway, I would fill the forest with SOMETHING not human (my latest thoughts are some weird stone giant race, but I'm not happy with that... but I kind of figured the Ash Giants to the south could maybe join in with them to make some kind of kingdom. The giants don't necessarily need to look like giant humans either).

That being said, I'd love to hear other ideas for what to do with the area. In 2e and 3e, said area pretty much was doing nothing, so it would hopefully be an improvement.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
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Posted - 18 Aug 2017 :  23:54:39  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not sure about putting the 'Red Forest' there. Don't get me wrong, i like it, but I think it should be something reflective of what happened there. I can put the 'Red Forest' somewhere else. I tried googling 'Red Giant', and aside from many pics of large red suns (Superman would have peed himself), the only humanoid thing I found was some pics of the Red Hulk... which lead me something called 'Salangor, the Red Giant', but I can't figure out where its from (other than Salingor being a town in Malayasia... Hey! maybe the people on that missing plane ended-up in the Realms!) Anyhow, from the couple of pics I could find of whatever that is, it looks sort of like a red stone giant.

A good piece of Abeir, for sure, and I can place it in that region (and want to), but probably no where the MotGS is/was. I was actually thinking something along Eberron's Mournland (so, like Wild magic regions on steroids).

"Ki's Cleft" - can we say some folks call it "Mielikki's Minge".
Funny thing is, I was thinking of putting a few crevasses here and there where the Underchasm was, so we were on the same page here.

I tried googling 'red monster', and got pics of Kane (WWF), Elmo, Monster energy drink, and This Guy. That dude can give you nightmares. You wanted something 'different', and that's pretty damn different.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 18 Aug 2017 23:56:35
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2441 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2017 :  01:18:38  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

[b[ Ki's Cleft - [/b] It is said that Ki's avatar form appeared from the nearby forest of Chondalwood during the Sundering and that her presence sent great swells of green glowing energy throughout the Tharch. This cleft actually reaches all the way down to the Great Rift, where it has a small opening high up on the north wall of the Great Rift.


I can heat Grumbar saying "I didn't filled that **** Underscham" for you to come and create this shit!"

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Personally, you've heard my idea of having a copy of a portion of Abeir coming over. I called it the "Red Mineral Forest of Shyr", and I was going to include that it held the Citadel of Burning Ice that belonged to Karshimis (but Karshimis didn't come over).


The problem with this is that Ao wanted to restore both worlds, not just Toril. My point here is that he didn't repaired Toril at expense of Abeir. I'm pretty sure he repaired Abeir as well (because Mystra wants to protect Abeir as well in Ed's article about the Sundering*).

Another point is that we have to take into account is that he wanted to separate Abeir and Toril again (because status quo...**), so during the Second Sundering he didn't exchanged terrain unless it was absolutely necesary (like, there was something Torilian in that terrain during the "transposing"), and even so, when this happened the exchange was kept to the minimum (just land, not features). We also know that Ao didn't cared for individuals (because many people was just sent to Abeir or Toril during the SS indiscriminately, regardless of their original world), so he not transposed land just for bringing people back.

If there was no necessity for transposing, he just repaired (see, Grumbar filling up the Underchasm, or the Great Rain).

So, if you like to have this forest, you have to make it something that was transposed to Toril before the Second Sundering, and prepare a good reason for why it remained after it (like Enlil protecting Tymanther).

The issue here is that, there is no reason for a forest of Shyr to be there. Before the SS, there was a black hole there, not a forest. My suggestion is that you should move the forest from there. But I don't see a reason for Ao to have brought the whole Citadel of Karshimis to Toril. It will go against his whole "separation of worlds" philosophy. You need a really, really good explanation for this, beyond "is cool, we should use it".

For instance, I want to "bring back" Nentir Vale to the Realms (yeah, bringing back... it was supposed to be part of the Realms). But my idea is that the Nentir Vale was there (wherever this there will be... since there is a canon map that uses that spot , so perhaps we need a new one for the Ckanon) there since the Spellplague. So, I just need a reason to allow it to stay (and I'm going to plagiarize Erin's one... if a god with barely power can protect Tymanther, a full god with established religion in the Realms can protect Nentir Vale effortlessly)



*That, btw, I guess we should use for the Candlekanon. Is in Dragon 427, for those interested.

**This is why I see Laerakond lost in canon, and that is sad. Laerakond was way better than Mesoameri... I mean, Maztica.

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 19 Aug 2017 01:51:05
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Markustay
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Posted - 19 Aug 2017 :  03:49:47  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That makes sense. Although you're saying NO land was actually swapped back-N-forth between Toril and Abeir during the 2nd (3rd? 100th?) Sundering? He just replaced physical mass and that was it? Then why restore anything at all to its original world (like sending Tymanther back to Abeir)?

We can't just have 'cool new stuff'?

Also, are you saying Nentir Vale isn't going to work where we put it? Because putting it anywhere else would be counter-intuitive (since we know no-ones really going to play anywhere outside the Heartlands, and thats all been mapped for 5e). I plan to modify some of what Mike Schley did anyway (as i said, i am going to keep small parts of the two 4e 'canyons' that are absent from his maps. Personally, I think once stuff in the Nentir Vale conversion hits the DM's Guild, WotC will probably want to make it canon (since they're not planning to revisit Nerath, and it would be such a waste not to use that material).

In this particular case, I would think the CandleKanon can overwrite 'canon', because its not a lore-problem, and maps can just be inaccurate (or 'incomplete', if you prefer). The addition of NV doesn't disturb anything, really. I was going to blame it on the Greyhawk Wars, and just say the valley had begun being settled by (GH) refugees around 1370 DR or so (I had a precise date, based on the dates in GH). The REAL Kehlben Arunson IS in Greyhawk, after all (and is probably Mordenkainen), and it makes sense (to me) that the Circle of Eight would ask for help from Mystra's Chosen (Khelben would ask his uncle 'Khelben'). Thats how I was going to fix having core stuff in FR, rather than say the place 'teleported in', whole-cloth. However, now that i know Nerath is a real world that coexists with FR and others, that becomes a little harder. Originally it was just 4e's 'non-setting', with no solid canon of its own. I guess the novels screwed that up.


@Sleyvas -
As much as I hate Goliaths, how about a group of red-tinged ones (makes it easy form them to hide amongst the trees). They could be red & black mottled, instead of the usual B&W.

"The Goliaths of Abeir are somewhat different than those of Toril and beyond. They've always lived in hiding, fearing the dragons would take them for true giants and slaughter them on sight. This not only causes them to be reclusive, and isolationist, but it also leads them to find any means to keep themselves from being seen at all. Take for example the Goliaths of the Red Mineral Forest: they managed to find and extricate Cinnabryl from the mineral trees, and by ingesting it, they take on the color of the forest, and are able to blend-in quite well. Of course, the exotic substance causes other... effects. But one can't be too choosey when hiding from one's enemies."


"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 19 Aug 2017 06:22:31
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2441 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2017 :  05:07:32  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

That makes sense. Although you're saying NO land was actually swapped back-N-forth between Toril and Abeir during the 2nd (3rd? 100th?) Sundering? He just replaced physical mass and that was it? Then why restore anything at all to its original world (like sending Tymanther back to Abeir)?

We can't just have 'cool new stuff'?


AFAIK, yes. He just relocated stuff to their proper worlds.

"Oh, there is Lantan here... was sent to Abeir during Cyric's folly... returned to Toril. Ohh... see that new cool and original continent on Toril, that is not a total, uninspired, stereotypical rip-off of an Earth culture? Returned to Abeir." And so forth.

Take notice, not all parts of Abeir were returned. A few ones remained in Toril (so we can imagine that parts of Toril also remained in Abeir), as per Chris Perkins and Matt Sernett in a Dragon Talk podcast. Tymanther is a canon example.

They left open which areas of Abeir remained on Toril, so DMs can choose their own Abeiran lands for their campaigns, but is canon that some Abeiran zones remained. Ao just isn't as all powerful as he wants us to believe he is.

That's why my solution to stuff like the Red Mineral Forest is that those places existed before the SS, and weren't returned by the event.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Also, are you saying Nentir Vale isn't going to work where we put it?


I like your solution to this.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

The REAL Kehlben Arunson IS in Greyhawk, afterall (and is probably Mordenkainen), and it makes sense (to me) that the Circle of Eight would ask for help from Mystra's Chosen (Khelben would ask his uncle 'Khelben').


So, he went nuts and challenged Sthrad to be defeated, and now has returned back to Waterdeep after more than 100 years to be cared of by Old El? (yeah, this is canon)

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

However, now that i know Nerath is a real world that coexists with FR and others, that becomes a little harder. Originally it was just 4e's 'non-setting', with no solid canon of its own. I guess the novels screwed that up.


Yeah... even the guys at WotC didn't knew how NV world was evolving. We can use the Spellplague to fix this (we just have to say that NV was transposed from the world of Nerath, not from Abeir—the Spellplague was a multiversity catastrophe. Moreso, the way how the Abyssal Plague novels ended can be used for this, as well---). Your idea of the Greyhawk refugees can be used as such. They just survived the transposing of NV. Now there are Oerthians, Nerathans and potentially Abeirans living in that area... mmm, they can be the new generation of a new culture.

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 19 Aug 2017 05:17:32
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Markustay
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Posted - 19 Aug 2017 :  06:57:33  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Except I wasn't planning on saying it 'came over whole-cloth', I had planned a 'it grew there in FR naturally, on its own' type f treatment. A century is a long time, and IIRC, I had the settling (from a massive, heavily guarded - on the GH side - portal) in that region sometime around 1370 or so (I just checked the dates with the Chronology of the Primes, and the GH Wars were from 1379-1381 DR... thats a bit of a SNAFU!)

Anyhow, real Khelben contacts the Khelben we know, and they form two 'Circles of Eight' (The CoE of GH, and six of the Seven Sisters + Elminster & Khelben on the FR side), and they open the huge Gate, allowing 'innocent victims of the war' to settle the valley. Despite their best efforts, some 'bad types' also manage to get through. A lot of land was cleared, and lakes previously hidden by deep forest revealed - the Nentir Vale (in FR) was born. Then the Spellplague hits and the Gate explodes, causing a massive rupture in the fabric of reality - parts of the Dragonborn & Tiefling Empires are shifted into the Vale (via the Shadowfell and Feywild). All that remains of the gate itself is vast hole - The Chaos Scar. Some say that it wasn't the Spellplague that disrupted the portal, but rather, something fell from the sky. Whatever it was, it left a mark.

And a hundred years later, we have a Nenter Vale that's eerily similar to the Nentir Vale in Nerath (I had planned to just ignore Nerath, but now I know we kind of can't). I suppose we could blame the duplication on some sort of 'magical chaos' residual effect (the Gate itself was blasted into dust, and spread all over the vale, which has caused the 'veil between the worlds' to be very thin in that region, and their is 'timeline leakage' occurring (which is what causes things like parallel/convergent evolution - its what the Mandela Effect supposedly works on). So even though the two Vales may have started out with VERY different beginnings, in the past hundred years the two histories have become extremely similar (Oh, and there was a short-lived 'Kingdom of Nerath' in that same area, about a thousand years ago - it was a Netherese survivor-state). Having the same name for a realm in more than one D&D world s nothing new (Blackmoor, Thar, etc). And it didn't appear on any maps until 5e because The Harpers and chosen worked very hard to keep the region semi-secret (people knew the region was being settled, but most folks wouldn't have known it was extra-planer; some of those refugees would have enemies chasing them even to other worlds... and some did). The story being spread is that folk of Nevrwinter (and Waterdeep) were being granted lands and settling in the nearby region of rolling hills called 'Neverwinter Vale, which was eventually shortend to just Nenter (Nentir) Vale.

At least, that was the way I was going to spin it until I decided to let you handle all the 'fluffy bits'. LOL
Something like that would work for the DM's Guild, but maybe not for the CandleKanon. Not sure.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 19 Aug 2017 07:03:38
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Zeromaru X
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Colombia
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Posted - 19 Aug 2017 :  08:26:29  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You know... That's a really cool idea. The only problematic stuff are the draconian ruins (there are a lot of those in canon NV), but we can use Abeir as a solution (we know there are settled lands in the equivalent lands in Abeir, because of Conyberry). It's a good way to make our own version of NV.

The tiefling stuff is more tricky, but we can blame the Netherese.

The real headcracker will be the temple of Tharizdun.

I see this idea working better with the Ckanon than with Dms Guild (because copyright)

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 19 Aug 2017 08:29:50
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Markustay
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Posted - 19 Aug 2017 :  14:20:10  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I figured it was the easiest way to get 'Core pantheon worshipers' into the Realms, slightly in the past (although I hadn't yet realized when I thought that up that 'core' no longer means what it did in 3e, which was GH).

Also, there is the problem of the dead Khelben. LOL (I have to check-out your link above and see if I can figure-out a solution, other than, "Hey Elminster, you were my uncle's best friend, can you do me a huge, world-spanning favor?") On the other hand, Mystra and Wee Jas were 'bestest buds' back in the day (that's from On Hallowed Ground), and it could be she asked her for a favor, which would make sense for the whole of the Chosen to be involved (opening a large, semi-permanent, two-way Gate between worlds is always a risky endeavor, and I would imagine Gods should be involved). Since mortals were all that was involved, and not the actual 'swapping of lands', Ao would have been out-of-the-loop (they are not part of his concerns... as we saw when the Imaskari thought kidnapping whole cultures was okay... and built a 'Godwall').

Ya know, come to think of it, the Imaskari Godwall is the #1 reason I think that Ao was NOT the Overgod of Realms for most of its existence There were tons of times he really should have gotten involved, and didn't. Too bad 4e/5e lore had to screw-up and mention him in the past tense, otherwise it would be easy to say he didn't come around until after Mystryl's Fall (I suppose we could still say that, if we bend the canon just a bit and say he wasn't 'the Overpower of Realmspace' when he did that other stuff - he was just the guy in charge of keeping the primordials and Estelar from killing each other at that point in time).

Then, millennia later, when 'there was an opening' (Mystryl died), his past experience with Realmspace made him the likely candidate to step-in and take care of things.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 19 Aug 2017 14:23:54
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Markustay
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Posted - 19 Aug 2017 :  17:59:33  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Stupid question (I'm working on something): What happened to the Imaskari?

I'm only asking because I just found an extremely powerful, very-much-alive and active (as of 3e) Imaskari Archmage (an NO, it isn't Halaster).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 19 Aug 2017 :  18:30:11  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Is it the one whose master sent him away to safety at the last minute.

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
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Markustay
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Posted - 19 Aug 2017 :  20:13:50  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Are you talking about that guy who likes hanging around the Lake of Salt? Because MY GUY helped that dude take his first training wheels off his bike.
{I just made that up}

And yes, I just double-checked - his master did indeed 'send him off to safety', and he's been hanging around the Taan region ever since.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Zeromaru X
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Colombia
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Posted - 19 Aug 2017 :  22:16:00  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The ones from High Imaskar? The survivors of the rebellion fled to the Desert of Purple Dust or to other planes, according to the SCAG. There is nothing more about them.

The ones from Deep Imaskar are sound and safe in the Underdark, saying to their High cousins "told ya".

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 19 Aug 2017 22:19:12
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