| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jul 2017 : 13:47:15
|
So, I was looking at the stuff being put out for Chult, and I'm like, well, I need to change some of my stuff to make it just a little different. For instance, I was planning to use the grung, even though I hate that they're short and squat. Also, it sounds like they plan to use them kind of like the tasloi were used way back when, which is not how I want them portrayed. So, I decided there will be a grippli / grung crossbreed known as gripplung.
Anyway, that also got me thinking about frog folk. Which made me think of tadpoles. Which made me think of illithids. Which made me picture and illithid like frog, but instead of face tentacles... he has a powerful tentacle tongue meant for grabbing folks heads from a distance. Then when they pull them close, they have retractable teeth (picture like Toothless from How to Train Your Dragon for the teeth, but sharper). Yeah... weird right? I'm picturing them as purple skinned frogs, so poisonous as well. I'm also picturing them not liking living underground, but rather liking the open and sunlight. What might be some other interesting features?
Oh, and of course, I'm thinking this would be a race of psionic frog folk. Not sure what psionics, but some kind. If anything, thinking some discipline that involves body augmentation or shapechanging. Like illithids they will also reproduce via tadpoles, with some kind of frog queen in place of an elder brain. Also, these "batrachi illithids" may not like regular illithids.... in fact, yeah, lets go with that idea and that they are yet another illithid experiment that broke away from them.
|
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 18 Jul 2017 13:56:03
|
|
|
TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2017 : 21:27:03
|
| Not everything goes, but there are lesser ceremorphs including roper- and lizardman- based, so not out of the question either. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
 |
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2017 : 23:48:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Not everything goes, but there are lesser ceremorphs including roper- and lizardman- based, so not out of the question either.
Yeah, I've also seen someone doing half-illithid doppelgangers (which is very interesting). This would be a first where they keep the illithid hivemind, but actually break away from the illithids and breed true. In fact, it might be interesting if they produce new tadpoles, but they must do like illithids do with humans and insert them into bullywugs, grippli, sivs, grung, etc... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2017 : 07:21:29
|
The 2E Illithiad describes illithids in great detail. This sourcebook is a wonderful and engaging delight for illithid-lovers everywhere, rich in insightful fluff about the life cycle and society of mind flayers, easily adapted to non-2E rulesets, and a very interesting read if nothing else.
Illithids are formed through "ceremorphosis": the process of a larval illithid "tadpole" burrowing into the skull of a host/victim and consuming the brain while it grows the mental and physical features of an adult illithid. Ceremorphosis usually occurs when an adult illithid inserts a tadpole into an ear canal, or through immersing the head within a swarming illithid "brain pool", or even through tadpoles burrowing into the skull through open wounds, eyes, mouth, or nose. The tadpole basically replaces or reconfigures brain matter with its own tissue and melds with the uneaten lower brain stem. The process only takes a few minutes but the new illithid needs a few more days or weeks to develop adult illithid features. The mind and soul/spirit of the host/victim are entirely replaced by a newly-awakened illithid intellect, although in many cases some traces of old personality, thoughts, memories, and mannerisms can persist - illithids can suffer from a condition called "partialism" (the incomplete sublimation of the original form-donor's brain during ceremorphosis), they view it as an illness, and they ruthlessly excise these subconscious personality fragments ("impurities") from themselves and each other through psychic surgery (or cruder methods, if necessary).
Adult illithids are extremely careful and selective about host bodies for their larva, choosing only the strongest and very healthiest of their slaves (or captured prisoners) which meet the physical requirements for implantation and ceremorphosis, most tadpoles do not survive ten to twenty years to maturity (in a pool filled with other competing and aggressively predatory half-sentient half-psionic tadpoles) so the adults do not waste them on hosts which are deemed unacceptable (incompatible) or unworthy.
- Acceptable races = humans, elves, drow, githyanki, githzerai, grimlocks, gnolls, goblins, orcs
- Unacceptable races = halflings, dwarves, derro, duergar, gnomes, centauroids, giants, kuo-toa
- Other races are potentially acceptable, assuming they possess humanoid characteristics and they fall within certain physical criteria (weight 130lbs~270lbs, height 5'4"~6'2", implanted tadpoles develop too quickly in small humanoids and too slowly in giant ones, killing both the victim and the tadpole). Generally speaking, non-humanoid and non-mammalian races are always unacceptable. Lizardmen are "unacceptable" by the criteria described in this sourcebook, blame it on WotC being inconsistent.
Although illithids are adapted to utilize humanoid forms, they have been known to implant tadpoles in all sorts of "unacceptable" and monstrous hosts. The overwhelming majority of these experiments fail to survive ceremorphosis or destroyed because they are too dangerous or too insane (and too alien, too disruptive, too uncontrollable). Those which remain are called "flayer-kin", they are hybrids with enhanced and novel abilities which synergize the inherent abilities of illithid tadpoles implanted in monstrous forms. The "urophion" is one example, a powerful illithid-roper hybrid which stuns victims with a violent psychic barrage then lashes out tentacles to entangle them and drag them closer to feed (on their brain matter). |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Starshade
Learned Scribe
Norway
279 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2017 : 10:24:49
|
a few stray thoughts:
- Mindflayers might discover something if they uses a "human" for host who is an doppelganger, and if they know of some theoretical work detailing a presumed batriachi origin of the doppelgangers. And if the result is interesting.
- frog like mind flayers? You could have the flayers be descendants from batrachi (instead of humans), time travelling back in time. If so, implanting doppelgangers of batrachi varieties would be implanting a primitive progenitor of illithids. You could confuse players by having them both have native illithid traits, and serve as slaves/hosts. |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2017 : 12:48:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by Starshade
a few stray thoughts:
- Mindflayers might discover something if they uses a "human" for host who is an doppelganger, and if they know of some theoretical work detailing a presumed batriachi origin of the doppelgangers. And if the result is interesting.
- frog like mind flayers? You could have the flayers be descendants from batrachi (instead of humans), time travelling back in time. If so, implanting doppelgangers of batrachi varieties would be implanting a primitive progenitor of illithids. You could confuse players by having them both have native illithid traits, and serve as slaves/hosts.
Hmmmm, actually, that's kind of not a bad idea.... slightly different twist... these are actual frog folk who were implanted with mind flayer tadpoles millennia ago when the batrachi were strong (there being maybe a mindflayer colony that arrived by nautiloid from Glyth when the batrachi were strong maybe... these frog folk were found to be uncontrollable). The mind flayers tried to flee their colony and set up some sort of "stasis bomb". Maybe when Katashaka was transferred to Abeir, said stasis finally neutralized. They have since returned to the surface and have been gathering the descendants of the batrachi that remain in Katashaka and converting them.
You know, this could really be interesting if I do as you say and have other batrachi "flayer-kin" that maybe also got converted and were just freed. I'm thinking the octopus like Tako, the blue ring octopi, doppelgangers, and maybe even some cloakers, ixitxachitl/Ixzan, or Anguilians (an eel-like sea humanoid). In so doing, they become a surface threat through the frog humanoids an underdark threat through the Ixzan, blue ring octopi, cloakers, and anguilians, and a sea threat as well through others and some mentioned in the underdark.
Note: in this, I am kind of making an assumption that a lot of these races have links to the batrachi.
Could be made more interesting if their "emerged from stasis" status just set off some kind of alarm bells for the illithids that are actually still on Toril whenever Katashaka and the surrounding waters returned to Toril. Maybe there's a whole hidden war going on, in which these flayer-kin are say fighting against aboleths and mind flayers, and they're "turning" frog folk of Katashaka (and maybe in Faerun) in order to make their army grow.
This could be a threat that was dormant on Abeir over the last hundred years (or maybe slowly building themselves and released from stasis when they came to Abeir.... maybe whatever was keeping them in stasis stayed on Toril).
Any other twists that we could add? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 19 Jul 2017 13:37:34 |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2017 : 02:05:42
|
Are you describing bullywugs?
The Illithiad rules out kuo-toa (which seems somewhat random, especially since sahuagin and locathah aren't mentioned).
But surely there must be undersea illithids? Seros alone has merfolk, tritons, sirines, aventi, shalarin, and Alu'Tel'Quessir (aquatic/sea elves) - all fitting the specified physical compatibility requirements and indeed in some cases being simply the aquatic equivalents of "acceptable" races. Imagine "moving" brain pools or schools of illithid tadpoles swimming around the depths ... |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2017 : 18:03:40
|
Yeah, I've been piecing together an 'early' connection between the Batrachi and the Illithids. like maybe it was the Batrachi who first made it possible for the Illithids to enter the normal D&Dverse (from the Far Realms), which would make the Batrachi involved in the fall of the 'First humans' (who I pegged as the people of Blackmoor), which would have become the various branches of the Gith we know today.
It makes sense, in that the Batrachi seem to have some 'chaos' connections, and not just because of their tentacles (although being natural shapechagers, maybe they are just 'mimicking' the 'Elder Gods'. In my most recent musings, I'm thinking that although we 'know' (from an FR PoV, at any rate) that the Godswar began with Shar and Selūne (and then escalated to include everyone else who existed at that time), I think the initial 'corruption' that found its way into the universe - that may have tainted Shar herself (or perhaps a single being that then split into Shar & Selūne) must have come from somewhere. I've mused that maybe it was the Demiurge that did it, for want of more 'creativity' (and was allowed to do so by the barrier's guardian - Erebus), but maybe it was the Batrachi, messing with things they shouldn't have (Shadow-magic allowing them to final 'penetrate the veil' between the normal universe and the Far Realms).
Or some combination of the two - the Batrachi wanted to embrace "creativity without constraints" (ever-changing, ever-evolving forms), which would have caused the Demiurge (the sentient essence of the 'creative spark') to seek more than what was available in the normal universe. That makes the Batrachi the catalyst for what eventually happened (if they didn't do it all on purpose, maybe to get a leg-up {tentacle-up?} on the competition - the other 'Creators', or just destroy those others out-right). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2017 : 18:10:17
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Are you describing bullywugs?
The Illithiad rules out kuo-toa (which seems somewhat random, especially since sahuagin and locathah aren't mentioned).
But surely there must be undersea illithids? Seros alone has merfolk, tritons, sirines, aventi, shalarin, and Alu'Tel'Quessir (aquatic/sea elves) - all fitting the specified physical compatibility requirements and indeed in some cases being simply the aquatic equivalents of "acceptable" races. Imagine "moving" brain pools or schools of illithid tadpoles swimming around the depths ...
Kuo-Toa are specifically an Underdark race, so that's probably why they are mentioned.
As for the rest, it does have interesting possibilities. In one of the Dragon Magazine API's, they involved Kopru, which look very much like they could be some sort of sea-illithid. I think it was a side-adventure to the Savage Tide AP, but don't quote me on that.
I think the main problem with the illithids 'doing their thing' underwater would be predators (eating the tadpoles), and contaminants - their 'brine pools' are very specific 'cocktail' of stuff. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 20 Jul 2017 18:12:01 |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2017 : 22:43:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Are you describing bullywugs?
The Illithiad rules out kuo-toa (which seems somewhat random, especially since sahuagin and locathah aren't mentioned).
But surely there must be undersea illithids? Seros alone has merfolk, tritons, sirines, aventi, shalarin, and Alu'Tel'Quessir (aquatic/sea elves) - all fitting the specified physical compatibility requirements and indeed in some cases being simply the aquatic equivalents of "acceptable" races. Imagine "moving" brain pools or schools of illithid tadpoles swimming around the depths ...
Bullywugs are one type of frog folk believed to be descended from the batrachi. I've got this section of Katashaka on the western side where I actually have a cliff face and you go down into a sunken series of swamp/jungle/lakes that also borders the coastline. So, I'd been wondering what to put there, and I finally settled on a series of different "batrachi descendants" all of whom are various frog folk.... so the common bullywugs, the more tree frog like grippli, the more toad like sivs, and I was going to use the grung simply because I wanted a poison frog, but I think I'll use a more grung/grippli mix for something bigger.
These frog folk basically live in their land and work to keep out the other nearby cultures (many of which feed on them). So, then I'm picturing throw in this small elite culture (let's call them Batrathids for now) that's slowly taking members of this frog folk society and turning them into flayer-kin. They don't steal individuals from other cultures, because this renegade type of flayerkin can only turn batrachi descendants... however, maybe they can also "breed true" as well, such that tadpoles that aren't implanted don't turn into neothelids, but rather some kind of batrachi (maybe frog folk, maybe some kind of octopus... maybe depends on what kind of "queen" they are). Maybe they can even implant a tadpole into a mind flayer and turn them into a Batrathid. I'm not picturing a major world spanning threat, but a small one that the party finds, and eventually maybe it leads into the underdark or the ocean.
|
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2017 : 22:53:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Are you describing bullywugs?
The Illithiad rules out kuo-toa (which seems somewhat random, especially since sahuagin and locathah aren't mentioned).
But surely there must be undersea illithids? Seros alone has merfolk, tritons, sirines, aventi, shalarin, and Alu'Tel'Quessir (aquatic/sea elves) - all fitting the specified physical compatibility requirements and indeed in some cases being simply the aquatic equivalents of "acceptable" races. Imagine "moving" brain pools or schools of illithid tadpoles swimming around the depths ...
Kuo-Toa are specifically an Underdark race, so that's probably why they are mentioned.
As for the rest, it does have interesting possibilities. In one of the Dragon Magazine API's, they involved Kopru, which look very much like they could be some sort of sea-illithid. I think it was a side-adventure to the Savage Tide AP, but don't quote me on that.
I think the main problem with the illithids 'doing their thing' underwater would be predators (eating the tadpoles), and contaminants - their 'brine pools' are very specific 'cocktail' of stuff.
thank you.... Kopru... psionic... and it even links them to mind flayers.
Still don't have a clear idea of how I'd have this society working, but I'm liking the idea of the leaders of it being amphibians who spend more time in the water than out. I do like the idea though of the leaders being a mind flayer experiment that turned on them, and I do like the idea of them actually converting illithids. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2017 : 05:52:34
|
| Slaadi are also froggy, lol. Sometimes also psionic. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2017 : 06:32:30
|
One of my very first theories was concerning the hypothetical '3rd set' of the Nether Scrolls, which went with the Batrachi. Part of that theory included the last of the True Batrachi fleeing into Limbo and becoming the Slaad.
Sometimes I think, "Humans are the only Creatori (Creator-Race) that is still around in its original form in large numbers." And then I think, "Maybe not. Maybe the form humanity is in now (and its quite diverse, especially if we take in all the thousands of sub-races on other worlds) isn't quite right". So just like there are few real Aeree left, or Batrachi, or Fey, or Sarrukh, but we still have dozens of Avians, Sea and amphibious races, 'fairies' (Feykin), and reptiloids, so, too, are there many, many varieties of 'human' (and who knows? maybe halflings are one), then the True Form of Mankind might be something else. Perhaps something closer to the Gith, or rather, what the Gith looked like originally, whatever that was (Qard?)
And while looking for the name of that last one, I came across something relevant that had slipped my mind - the froghemoth! A giant ornery frog with tentacles... sounds like a (hybrid) mistake that got loose to me (or another 'evolutionary dead-end'). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 21 Jul 2017 06:36:45 |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Batrachi Illithids
