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LWhitehead1
Learned Scribe
118 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Jun 2017 : 18:34:04
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Hello what to Al-Qadim part of Forgotten Realms?, I liked the 2nd version of this setting specially the Genie Masters.
LW
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2017 : 18:47:13
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The same thing that happened to everything else the post-2E designers had no interest in: it was simply ignored.
As regrettable as that is, though, it's still preferable to the way they handled stuff they didn't like, which involved blowing it up, having it pop out of existence, or simply turned into something the exact opposite of what it was originally. |
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LWhitehead1
Learned Scribe
118 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2017 : 11:23:56
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You mean about the other world smash up in the 4th version of FR, Well is Al-Qadim still there in FR?.
The setting officially update for 5th FR setting, not like the 3.5 update I didn't like what was done to Genie Master kit
LW |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2017 : 12:10:10
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| Wizards, in the start of 5th edition, I remember claimed that they are going to publich new material for Al-Qadim ..But they have not until now. |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2017 : 15:35:59
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quote:
Originally posted by LWhitehead1
You mean about the other world smash up in the 4th version of FR, Well is Al-Qadim still there in FR?.
The setting officially update for 5th FR setting, not like the 3.5 update I didn't like what was done to Genie Master kit.
As far as I know (and I knew - from certain sources - before anyone else not working for them) that FR was returning to its original, pre-3e geographic state, and much of the political ends of things would also return to how they were (as much as possible, without bringing certain major characters back). Most of Toril is covered by the 'Forgotten Realms' umbrella, so my assumption here is everything meant EVERYTHING.
HOWEVER, Al Qadim never bore the 'FR logo', as did the other sub-settings, including even Kara-Tur. So, if I were to take what was said literally, Zakhara is not included in that, and we have no idea what they would be planning. In my opinion, though, I would expect it will follow suit with the rest of Toril.
On the one hand, I think we already have way too many psuedo-Middle-Eastern cultures, but on the other, I don't see how they could just ditch it. PLUS, Al Qadim is DAMN GOOD, so it would be a real waste to just break it off the rest. That means, too me, the ideal situation would be for them to do something with the other Arabian-esque cultures we have all over the place. Steven Schend tried to give Calimshan more of an 'Ottoman Empire' kind of twist (which is great, and fitting, geographically), but we need to get rid the Bedine altogether (or take them and turn them into something else entirely, like the Aiel of WoT). Personally, after all thats happened with the return of - and re-nuking of - Netheril, I would just say they're all gone, and the Rengarth (sp?) tribes have moved back into the area (and the horseman of the Tunlands and The Ride).
Get that flavor out of Halruaa; it never belonged there anyway, IMO - they were a Netherese survivor state! We could just say the turbans and what-not were 'just a fad' (imported from nearby Zakhara). We'd have to leave something akin to them in Turmish - perhaps make those folks look more Morroccan in dress/culture (which is also quite fitting). As for the Shining Waters... thats a tough one. With Imaskar gone again (or is it?) we don't have to worry about them, but we do need to do something with Durpar, etc. Considering Semphar's changed from what it was, maybe we could apply that flavor to the Golden Waters - perhaps as roughly unified region (under Durpar) a'la the Persian Empire. There was some weirdness going on there in one of Bruce Cordell's novels, so we can run with that (a magitech, steampunkish Persia - I don't think thats been done before).
In that way, we can keep the 'pure' Arabian-style culture all down in Zakhara, and really make it shine, and make FR gamers want to use it (because before, there was no point - we had the same type of stuff much closer). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Jun 2017 15:48:08 |
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LWhitehead1
Learned Scribe
118 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2017 : 18:31:44
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Well I hope that 5th version of FR will include Al-Qadim with an update on the setting and history of Zakhara, remember the Grand Caliph was cursed Five different ways in preventing a Male Child.
I want to create a series of Official characters in Book series,
LW |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2017 : 18:33:55
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| I'd love to see an update for Zakhara (as well as Maztica and Kara-Tur), but I doubt it will happen in the near future. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2017 : 00:06:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by LWhitehead1
You mean about the other world smash up in the 4th version of FR, Well is Al-Qadim still there in FR?.
The setting officially update for 5th FR setting, not like the 3.5 update I didn't like what was done to Genie Master kit.
As far as I know (and I knew - from certain sources - before anyone else not working for them) that FR was returning to its original, pre-3e geographic state, and much of the political ends of things would also return to how they were (as much as possible, without bringing certain major characters back). Most of Toril is covered by the 'Forgotten Realms' umbrella, so my assumption here is everything meant EVERYTHING.
HOWEVER, Al Qadim never bore the 'FR logo', as did the other sub-settings, including even Kara-Tur. So, if I were to take what was said literally, Zakhara is not included in that, and we have no idea what they would be planning. In my opinion, though, I would expect it will follow suit with the rest of Toril.
On the one hand, I think we already have way too many psuedo-Middle-Eastern cultures, but on the other, I don't see how they could just ditch it. PLUS, Al Qadim is DAMN GOOD, so it would be a real waste to just break it off the rest. That means, too me, the ideal situation would be for them to do something with the other Arabian-esque cultures we have all over the place. Steven Schend tried to give Calimshan more of an 'Ottoman Empire' kind of twist (which is great, and fitting, geographically), but we need to get rid the Bedine altogether (or take them and turn them into something else entirely, like the Aiel of WoT). Personally, after all thats happened with the return of - and re-nuking of - Netheril, I would just say they're all gone, and the Rengarth (sp?) tribes have moved back into the area (and the horseman of the Tunlands and The Ride).
Get that flavor out of Halruaa; it never belonged there anyway, IMO - they were a Netherese survivor state! We could just say the turbans and what-not were 'just a fad' (imported from nearby Zakhara). We'd have to leave something akin to them in Turmish - perhaps make those folks look more Morroccan in dress/culture (which is also quite fitting). As for the Shining Waters... thats a tough one. With Imaskar gone again (or is it?) we don't have to worry about them, but we do need to do something with Durpar, etc. Considering Semphar's changed from what it was, maybe we could apply that flavor to the Golden Waters - perhaps as roughly unified region (under Durpar) a'la the Persian Empire. There was some weirdness going on there in one of Bruce Cordell's novels, so we can run with that (a magitech, steampunkish Persia - I don't think thats been done before).
In that way, we can keep the 'pure' Arabian-style culture all down in Zakhara, and really make it shine, and make FR gamers want to use it (because before, there was no point - we had the same type of stuff much closer).
Not sure why you're saying it never bore the same level as other regions... as far as I know, its as much accepted as FR as Kara-Tur. Heck, I believe some of the maps even overlap. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2017 : 05:17:52
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Al Qadim was considered its own setting - it never bore the FR logo... NEVER.
Even Kara-Tur bore the FR logo at the top in 2e, thus, as big as it was, it was still a sub-setting.
Its a matter of semantics; Zakhara is FR canon, but Al Qadim/Arabian Adventures is not necessarily canon (at one time, the rule was that "anything that bore the FR logo was canon", but thats been tweaked over the years, since some things that had the logo are no longer considered canon).
I've had arguments pertaining to this with people (around here) before - no logo means NOT canon, which means Realmspace is NOT FR canon either (it has the SJ logo).
Al Qadim history would need to be tweaked a bit, since it only goes back about a thousand years, which only makes it's 'ancient history' at the time of Athalantar (so Elminster is older than Zakharan history). My theory is that there have been a number of historic periods, and for whatever reason, they have no record of the previous eras (this helps explain the one Zakharan entry in the GHotR, which mentions a female Grand Caliph, which isn't possibly under the Al Qadim box set). It would be interesting to make that coincide with the arrival of the Dgen in Calimshan, but the timing is off, and folks don't seem to care for time-travel explanations (even though that possibly is even hinted at in the original Calimshan sourcebooks).
Some of their legends seem to take place in 'prehistory' (for Zakhara, which would be fairly recent on an FR timeline). Some of those may stem from the time before the great exodus (The scattering of Fate), when genies ruled Zakhara, so they could possibly be from as far back as before the Great arrival (in Calimshan). Its kind of odd, with 4e's stronger focus on genasi, that Zakhara was never even mentioned - it would have been interesting to see what was going on down there when the wailing years were going on... 
 
I just had a weird thought - what if the history of Zakhara from the Al Qadim box starts at 5e? Nothings says it couldn't.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 30 Jun 2017 14:09:23 |
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LWhitehead1
Learned Scribe
118 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2017 : 06:20:13
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Well I still want to create an Official FR Character, that would mean some of the History of Zakhara would have to match up with Calimshan,
LW |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2017 : 14:16:55
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There is Torilian lore in The Complete Book of Necromancers - the Isle of Sahu is within the Zakhara region, and yet it is tied closer to FR, and even includes a character from Waterdeep. Unfortunately, that source is core, and not canon to either setting.
In the Al Qadim material, there is a pirate in the Corsair Domains who is actually a Northman.
And I just realized something (after checking the map): Zakhara is on/in the Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas, which DID bear the FR logo, which validates what I said above; the landmass itself - and all the locales on it - are indeed FR canon. Its the lore that becomes 'questionable'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 30 Jun 2017 14:17:29 |
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LWhitehead1
Learned Scribe
118 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2017 : 19:53:27
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Well I still want to Official Write a Book series, also is there Coffee in Heartlands of Toril?.
LW |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2017 : 20:11:51
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From Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms, which has a write-up on coffee:
Page 92:
quote:
Known as kaeth or kaethae in the Realms, coffee is rare north of Calimshan and the southern Vilhon shores, except in the most cosmopolitan ports such as Waterdeep, Athkatla, and Westgate.
Page 94:
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Coffee is prepared and consumed in a variety of ways in Faerűn, from a thick black near-syrup stirred into sweet liqueur in Sembia and Chessenta, to roasted beans eaten whole, to the more familiar brew drunk black, sometimes with medicines or mint leaves sprinkled over the surface. This black coffee is made by stewing the beans in a pot over a fire or a hearth, and is hence much stronger than what most of us in the real world are accustomed to. Brewed coffee is the most popular form of consumption in Calimshan, the Tashalar, the Heartlands, and the North, but peddlers, explorers, and adventurers often chew the beans as they travel.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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LWhitehead1
Learned Scribe
118 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2017 : 22:24:10
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Ok Waterdeep has Coffee, but in Al-Qadim it's part of the culture there specially after the guest leave Frankensense is used.
What about the other foodstuffs in Al-Qadim any of it up North?.
LW |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2017 : 07:38:22
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| If you are looking for more connections, father of Holly Harrowslough (paladin of Lathander from The Lost Gods) was a faris (of Hajama) from Zakhara. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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see
Learned Scribe
235 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2017 : 17:42:59
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| What happened was simple enough. It was a deliberately time-limited line back in 2nd edition, and after it was discontinued as scheduled, has never been picked up since. |
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LWhitehead1
Learned Scribe
118 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2017 : 18:29:47
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Well as stated before I would like it seen picked up again.
LW |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2017 : 13:55:06
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quote:
Originally posted by LWhitehead1
Ok Waterdeep has Coffee, but in Al-Qadim it's part of the culture there specially after the guest leave Frankensense is used.
What about the other foodstuffs in Al-Qadim any of it up North?.
LW
Aurora should be able to get her hands on just about any kind of exotic food. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2017 : 16:49:22
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Not precisely on-topic, but I've been catching bits and pieces of GoT (they are doing one of those 'marathon' things on TV) here and there over the last few days, and I think the Free Cities of GoT make an EXCELLENT inspiration for the Free Cities of Zakhara (those cities along the northern coast). In fact, they use slave-troops (Mamluks) very similar to the Unsullied of Essos.
Not that I haven't been watching the show all along, but I hadn't really been thinking about Zakhara my first time through, but this thread had me thinking about it, and it all makes a nice fit.
In my Realms, I've turned the Tuigan into Hobgoblins, so it would be an easy thing for me to place the Dothraki in all the 'Wastes' of Zakhara - they make a nice buffer between the civilized regions and the Yakfolk (So I am talking about my Misbegotten Realms here, whereas my initial thoughts above were directed at the canon Realms). In fact, it might even be interesting to dump most of the Utter East stuff (it was a bit smelly anyway), and just stick the Dothraki there - maybe call them the Doegani, just to keep some connection to the original (quasi-canonical) lore. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2017 : 16:52:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri
quote:
Originally posted by LWhitehead1
Ok Waterdeep has Coffee, but in Al-Qadim it's part of the culture there specially after the guest leave Frankensense is used.
What about the other foodstuffs in Al-Qadim any of it up North?.
LW
Aurora should be able to get her hands on just about any kind of exotic food.
You guys have me picturing Aurora's Shops now having cafés on the side... like a Starbucks.
Maybe call them 'Moonbucks'.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2017 : 17:00:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by LWhitehead1
You mean about the other world smash up in the 4th version of FR, Well is Al-Qadim still there in FR?.
The setting officially update for 5th FR setting, not like the 3.5 update I didn't like what was done to Genie Master kit.
As far as I know (and I knew - from certain sources - before anyone else not working for them) that FR was returning to its original, pre-3e geographic state, and much of the political ends of things would also return to how they were (as much as possible, without bringing certain major characters back). Most of Toril is covered by the 'Forgotten Realms' umbrella, so my assumption here is everything meant EVERYTHING.
HOWEVER, Al Qadim never bore the 'FR logo', as did the other sub-settings, including even Kara-Tur. So, if I were to take what was said literally, Zakhara is not included in that, and we have no idea what they would be planning. In my opinion, though, I would expect it will follow suit with the rest of Toril.
On the one hand, I think we already have way too many psuedo-Middle-Eastern cultures, but on the other, I don't see how they could just ditch it. PLUS, Al Qadim is DAMN GOOD, so it would be a real waste to just break it off the rest. That means, too me, the ideal situation would be for them to do something with the other Arabian-esque cultures we have all over the place. Steven Schend tried to give Calimshan more of an 'Ottoman Empire' kind of twist (which is great, and fitting, geographically), but we need to get rid the Bedine altogether (or take them and turn them into something else entirely, like the Aiel of WoT). Personally, after all thats happened with the return of - and re-nuking of - Netheril, I would just say they're all gone, and the Rengarth (sp?) tribes have moved back into the area (and the horseman of the Tunlands and The Ride).
Get that flavor out of Halruaa; it never belonged there anyway, IMO - they were a Netherese survivor state! We could just say the turbans and what-not were 'just a fad' (imported from nearby Zakhara). We'd have to leave something akin to them in Turmish - perhaps make those folks look more Morroccan in dress/culture (which is also quite fitting). As for the Shining Waters... thats a tough one. With Imaskar gone again (or is it?) we don't have to worry about them, but we do need to do something with Durpar, etc. Considering Semphar's changed from what it was, maybe we could apply that flavor to the Golden Waters - perhaps as roughly unified region (under Durpar) a'la the Persian Empire. There was some weirdness going on there in one of Bruce Cordell's novels, so we can run with that (a magitech, steampunkish Persia - I don't think thats been done before).
In that way, we can keep the 'pure' Arabian-style culture all down in Zakhara, and really make it shine, and make FR gamers want to use it (because before, there was no point - we had the same type of stuff much closer).
Zakhara has been refered to in the SCAG and other FR products, so it officially apart of FR. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2017 : 17:30:03
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No-one ever said Zakhara wasn't part of FR - the part that's debatable is if everything in the Al-Qadim stuff is considered canon (since it never bore the FR logo). Its the same argument people give for Realmspace, since it had the SJ logo. Sure, 'Realmspace' exists in FR canon (called 'The Sea of Night'), buuuuuut.. is the lore in that book all canon?
Its a tricky point of contention. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2017 : 00:54:12
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To be fair, I've not seen too many people other than myself questioning whether Realmspace should be canon for the Realms.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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LWhitehead1
Learned Scribe
118 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2017 : 17:40:28
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Well I would like to see Zakhara official part of FR, What differnece between Zakhara and Heartlands of FR is that the Land of Fate is Magic Rich and down there they don't fear Magic like they normal do in Waterdeep, Given what Nertheril Empire did I'm not suprised?.
LW |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2017 : 18:05:52
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quote:
Originally posted by LWhitehead1
Well I would like to see Zakhara official part of FR, What differnece between Zakhara and Heartlands of FR is that the Land of Fate is Magic Rich and down there they don't fear Magic like they normal do in Waterdeep, Given what Nertheril Empire did I'm not suprised?.
LW
Given that magic is relatively common in Waterdeep, to the point there is a licensed mages' guild, I'm not sure where the idea that Waterdhavians fear magic comes from. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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see
Learned Scribe
235 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2017 : 12:24:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
To be fair, I've not seen too many people other than myself questioning whether Realmspace should be canon for the Realms.
Yes, well, you have my axe. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2017 : 13:19:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
To be fair, I've not seen too many people other than myself questioning whether Realmspace should be canon for the Realms.
I'm trying to embrace but change the lore in Realmspace. I like the whole illusion face. I like the idea of these weird residents of the moon, but I'm turning them MUCH more nefarious whenever people start delving. They aren't elves and humans, though they appear to be. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2017 : 13:20:57
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quote:
Originally posted by see
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
To be fair, I've not seen too many people other than myself questioning whether Realmspace should be canon for the Realms.
Yes, well, you have my axe.
... and my bow. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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LWhitehead1
Learned Scribe
118 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2019 : 21:30:37
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This is why I want to create an official FR novel series who's main character is a Genie Master, but he is an anjami as a small boy he was stolen by Slavers and ended up in Zakhara.
LW |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2019 : 08:31:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri
quote:
Originally posted by see
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
To be fair, I've not seen too many people other than myself questioning whether Realmspace should be canon for the Realms.
Yes, well, you have my axe.
... and my bow.
...and my accordion. (sorry) |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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What happened to Al-Qadim
