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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Honestly, I'm weak on any lore pertaining to Abeir as a separate entity... The whole idea of Abeir as a separate world was a retcon, and it was very poorly managed, in my opinion. Almost every aspect of it creates a lot of issues -- like the moon thing discussed earlier, in this thread -- and either breaks existing lore, doesn't make any sense, or both.

The whole thing would have worked orders of magnitude better if it had been some sort of extraplanar invasion or something, instead of the Sundered worlds thing. Plus, that approach wouldn't have been a retcon, and the rest of the prior lore wouldn't have been broken.

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Originally posted by LordofBones

I see the rest of the draconic pantheon must be hanging around at the spelljammer station dressed in hobo rags, musing wistfully on better days.

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Originally posted by sleyvas

So, for those (like me) who didn't follow the reference of Erek-hus, the King of Terror, and Io/Asgorath… its under the dragonborn in the SCAG

Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, page 112
Another legend asserts that Io created the dragons at the birth of the world, but dragonborn did not yet exist. Then, during the Dawn War, Io was killed by the primordial known as Erek-Hus, the King of Terror. With a rough-hewn axe of adamantine, the behemoth split Io from head to tail, cleaving the dragon-god into two equal halves, which rose up as new gods- Bahamut and Tiamat. Droplets of Io's blood, spattered across the world,
became the first dragonborn. For some who believe it, this origin story supports the view that dragonborn are clearly inferior to the dragons that were made by Io's loving hand, while others emphasize that the dragonborn arose from Io's own blood- just as two draconic deities
arose from the god's severed body. So are the dragonborn not, therefore, like the gods themselves?

This is apparently lore from the 4th edition "Player's Handbook Races - Dragonborn" as I did deeper. Its here that we find more lore on Erek-Hus
From PHR-Dragonborn
IO'S SUNDERED HEART When Erek-Hus, the King ofTerror, sundered Io's body, he cut the dragon-god's heart cleanly in half. The sundered halves of Io's heart give life to Bahamut and Tiamat-but ifthey were reunited, Io himself could live again. Of course, claiming the two halves of the heart probably means killing both Tiamat and Bahamut-or at least killing one deity and convincing the other to ingest or absorb that half of the heart.
What do you hope to gain by reuniting the heart? Are you a devotee of Io's Children who simply wishes to see your god restored? Or are you on the path of the Avatar of Io (see below), seeking to complete this quest in order to achieve your immortality?
This would be appropriate as a major quest that your entire party pursues. However, if it's part ofcompleting your epic destiny, it might be a minor quest-despite its far-reaching consequences.
THE KING OF TERROR After the primordial Erek-Hus slew Io, Bahamut and Tiamat, rising up from their dead progenitor's corpse, destroyed the King of Terror. Among those elemental beings and mortals who revere the primordials, however, there are some who seek to revive the King of Terror. Collecting fragments of his shattered body, they plan a ritual to reunite the fragments and restore him to life. You make it your mission to stop them.
Foiling the ritual might be a major quest you share with your party, but there might be steps along the way that are more personal for you and appropriate for minor quests. You might seek to disrupt local cults, take out key cult leaders, or find fragments ofthe primordial's body before the cultists do and destroy them.

Which SOME might read this theory, along with the increased interest of Bahamut and Tiamat just following the ToT and before the spellplague which hurled Abeir and Toril back together. Makes me also wonder about the "Heart of Ubtao" earthmote floating above Chult.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

It's too similar to Tymora and Beshaba's story, for my liking.

I realize that the good and evil counterparts arising from a common origin story is hardly unique to the deities of Luck, but still, I think they could have tried harder to make something unique. (Though I'm inclined to think this was specifically against the 4E design guidelines)

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

It was very frustrating to be actively following the setting at the time, too.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Honestly, I'm weak on any lore pertaining to Abeir as a separate entity... The whole idea of Abeir as a separate world was a retcon, and it was very poorly managed, in my opinion. Almost every aspect of it creates a lot of issues -- like the moon thing discussed earlier, in this thread -- and either breaks existing lore, doesn't make any sense, or both.

The whole thing would have worked orders of magnitude better if it had been some sort of extraplanar invasion or something, instead of the Sundered worlds thing. Plus, that approach wouldn't have been a retcon, and the rest of the prior lore wouldn't have been broken.

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Originally posted by Lord Karsus

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Honestly, I'm weak on any lore pertaining to Abeir as a separate entity... The whole idea of Abeir as a separate world was a retcon, and it was very poorly managed, in my opinion. Almost every aspect of it creates a lot of issues -- like the moon thing discussed earlier, in this thread -- and either breaks existing lore, doesn't make any sense, or both.

The whole thing would have worked orders of magnitude better if it had been some sort of extraplanar invasion or something, instead of the Sundered worlds thing. Plus, that approach wouldn't have been a retcon, and the rest of the prior lore wouldn't have been broken.

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-For months, in the 4e lead up, it wasn't even clear exactly what the hell "Abeir" was. The 4e book cleared it up more or less, but when you can't make sense of exactly what they're talking about in preview articles...that's bad.

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Originally posted by The Masked Mage

I never liked any of the Abeir / Toril were separate things. Abeir-Toril - one world. Done

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Originally posted by The Masked Mage

Don't see why having two worlds gives more possibilities for future writing. I've been reading FR for almost 30 years and in that time they've published a couple hundred books. Meanwhile here on earth the same number of books are published set on this planet every week or so. Abeir-Toril is a whole planet with billions of characters to explore on the page. No need for a dimensional twin.

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Originally posted by The Masked Mage

Don't see why having two worlds gives more possibilities for future writing. I've been reading FR for almost 30 years and in that time they've published a couple hundred books. Meanwhile here on earth the same number of books are published set on this planet every week or so. Abeir-Toril is a whole planet with billions of characters to explore on the page. No need for a dimensional twin.

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Originally posted by cpthero2

I feel that the 4e production of material was driven towards getting younger readers, who did not want to have the barriers to enter regarding lore, involved in the game and so anything they could potentially use in the future as a means to get that done would be a positive. This would only be a business decision, as we can see from the (as I feel) bizarre approach they took to a severe dismantling of the Realms at the onset of 4e.

Thoughts?

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Originally posted by Lord Karsus

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Originally posted by cpthero2

I feel that the 4e production of material was driven towards getting younger readers, who did not want to have the barriers to enter regarding lore, involved in the game and so anything they could potentially use in the future as a means to get that done would be a positive. This would only be a business decision, as we can see from the (as I feel) bizarre approach they took to a severe dismantling of the Realms at the onset of 4e.

Thoughts?

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-They've said as much that that was the case.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

It's too similar to Tymora and Beshaba's story, for my liking.
I realize that the good and evil counterparts arising from a common origin story is hardly unique to the deities of Luck, but still, I think they could have tried harder to make something unique.

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Originally posted by Misereor

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

It's too similar to Tymora and Beshaba's story, for my liking.
I realize that the good and evil counterparts arising from a common origin story is hardly unique to the deities of Luck, but still, I think they could have tried harder to make something unique.

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All the splitting apart of deities was actually the one thing about 4th ed. I liked.

In my campaigns, I treat them as metaphors for aspects of divinity changing, as the world and the rules of the universe (and thus Portfolios) change.

For example, The original Io as one of the oldest gods was said to have been of all alignments. That would makes sense, if he existed before alignments existed as we know them today. When Good and Evil began emerge as separate concepts (as described in the history of the Blood War), why wouldn't a god that previously encompassed both split along those lines too?

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