| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
 Posted - 02 May 2017 : 01:35:36
|
I know that Common is supposed to be a pidgin form of Chondathan, descended from Thorassian. What about Undercommon, though? From which language or languages is it derived? The most likely choices seem to be Elven and Dwarven, as spoken by the Drow and Duergar with words borrowed from a few other Underdark races. Is there any official lore on this?
|
--
Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
|
|
TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
954 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2017 : 02:22:35
|
| Pretty sure it's primarily elven, but that could only be because it uses the Espruar alphabet and drow were listed in various sources as the most common speakers. Saw something online that said it is a mix of elven (drow dialects), dwarven, and surface common, but not sure where they got that. |
 |
|
|
ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2017 : 03:05:56
|
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Pretty sure it's primarily elven, but that could only be because it uses the Espruar alphabet and drow were listed in various sources as the most common speakers. Saw something online that said it is a mix of elven (drow dialects), dwarven, and surface common, but not sure where they got that.
Thanks, Tom!
I was trying to estimate how easy it would be for someone who already speaks Elven and Dwarven to pick up Undercommon. I'm not even sure how different the Elven spoken by the Drow is from that spoken by surface elves. Common sense suggests they would have diverged, but the rules don't treat them as different, at least not since 2e.
|
--
Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
|
|
|
Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2017 : 06:35:36
|
I've always seen drow as basically a dialect of elven. The drow spoke regular elven when they were banished from the surface, and it's since diverged. It is recognizably still an elven language, but it's either entirely or mostly incomprehensible to surface elves.
As a modern example, the people of the southern Dutch province of Limburg speak a local dialect of standard Dutch. When they are speaking in dialect, Dutch from the north who only speak standard Dutch can't understand them. It's recognizably related to the standard language, but incomprehensible.
To me, that's the best way to run the drow language. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
|
|
|
TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2017 : 06:43:34
|
quote:
Originally posted by ErskineF
I was trying to estimate how easy it would be for someone who already speaks Elven and Dwarven to pick up Undercommon. I'm not even sure how different the Elven spoken by the Drow is from that spoken by surface elves. Common sense suggests they would have diverged, but the rules don't treat them as different, at least not since 2e.
Well… the common drow don't understand High Drow, and it's an archaic dialect, i.e. somewhere between Low Drow and their pre-Descent language:
Elven Dialects (Modern) <- Elven Dialects (IV Crown War era) -> High Drow -> Low Drow
Common sense says it's not very accessible like this. (Ed says much the same, but with details)
Perhaps the Duergar and Orcish components will be more recognisable.
|
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
|
|
|
ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2017 : 23:52:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Well… the common drow don't understand High Drow, and it's an archaic dialect, i.e. somewhere between Low Drow and their pre-Descent language:
Elven Dialects (Modern) <- Elven Dialects (IV Crown War era) -> High Drow -> Low Drow
Common sense says it's not very accessible like this. (Ed says much the same, but with details)
Perhaps the Duergar and Orcish components will be more recognisable.
Yes, that's what I got from DOTU. It seemed to conflate Low Drow with Undercommon, though, if I read it correctly. |
--
Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
|
|
|
Starshade
Learned Scribe
Norway
279 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2017 : 10:57:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I've always seen drow as basically a dialect of elven. The drow spoke regular elven when they were banished from the surface, and it's since diverged. It is recognizably still an elven language, but it's either entirely or mostly incomprehensible to surface elves.
As a modern example, the people of the southern Dutch province of Limburg speak a local dialect of standard Dutch. When they are speaking in dialect, Dutch from the north who only speak standard Dutch can't understand them. It's recognizably related to the standard language, but incomprehensible.
To me, that's the best way to run the drow language.
Limburgish also was considered part of low german dialects, in other words, a dialect of German, once. I think there could have been an old "spachbund" going from limburg in Netherlands, into Germany and Belgium, connecting the Limburgish as an independent language to low German.
Also a good analogy, might be late Roman Empire, and Vulgar Latin, wich were the real language of the masses, with shifts towards modern forms who leads to Spanish and French. But still being able to understand the classic Latin.
An realistic option, is to rule Drow a different language as spoken, but rule they learn High Drow in school, and learn to understand Elvish from there. As far I understand, the Drow got no fascination in classic 2E or 3.5 for Gold/Moon elf literature, don't go on holidays to surface elven lands, or trade with Evereska.
Limburgish, and Vulgar latin, is examples where an dialect remains so, since the bonds to the main language is still maintained. Not sure if the Drow "maintain" any connections who would connect Elven and Drow?
Anyway, it's a good comparison! :) |
Edited by - Starshade on 10 May 2017 11:13:00 |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Undercommon
