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 Neverwinter Chasm, Post-Sundering
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 17 May 2017 :  22:09:34  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Combine all of those ideas... The gnomes come in, and craft illusions of filling it all in -- in actuality, they've been layering wall of stone spells, starting from the surface and working downwards maybe 20 feet.

So far as anyone knows, the chasm is entirely filled in. Actually, though, it's just covered, and there are some areas they didn't close off, because those areas simply weren't as high a priority. They've just not gotten to them, yet.

They're nearing completion, when something happens. Maybe Lord Neverember pisses off the ranking gnome on the project. Maybe someone has started picking off the gnomes, and now there aren't enough left to complete the project. Maybe one of the factions that opposes Lord N has found out there are still gnomes in the area, doing something rather secretive. Whatever the problem, Lord Neverember needs it handled quickly and discreetly, before anyone finds out that he's been lying about having the chasm filled in.

Or maybe it was roofed over but not filled in, and something has crawled out and become problematic...



One thing to bear in mind, wall of stone isn't permanent anymore. It's concentration or 10 minutes. Same with wall of ice and force. No longer can you do construction with wall spells.

In fact, that could be a good feat... something that makes various types of walls and stuff permanent without concentration (or even if you just made them last a year or so, which would allow a community to throw up temporary walls and build permanent walls behind them.... making a wall of ice that lasts a day would give you enough time to chip it down to cool off drinks, etc.). It would have to have a LOT of those types of benefits to be worth it though.



Actually wall of stone can be made permanent if the caster keeps the concentration going for the full duration.

But not the others...bah humbug.



Ah, I stand corrected. You're correct, there is a sentence in just this one wall spell for 5e that states that the wall stays if concentration is maintained. So, I guess construction of basic walls is back in the hands of mages.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 17 May 2017 :  22:18:05  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

The way I look at it, the older maps (and now newer maps) were done with a 'projection', which means on the extremes (top and bottom) of the map everything gets stretched (like RW maps with a Mercator Projection). That would mean the 3e (and probably 4e) maps were actually more size-accurate, because they were 'local' and didn't have any the distortion you get on the larger maps.

Of course, that doesn't really hold water once you start measuring stuff and looking at distances in written products, but it was the best i could come up with (in 3e - the fact that they've gone back to the 'bigger, better' format kind of screws all that up).

If we go with what they are trying to pull-off, then maybe we lost a lot of terrain during the ToT (which also had 'magical chaos'), and by the time Torillians remapped everything it was 3e. The 'Wild magic Zones' could have been like giant drains, drawing matter into other planes/worlds (like how if you depressurize a plane or spaceship, things get sucked-out). Then comes 5e and they have to remap everything all over again (must suck living in an ever-changing, magical world).



This is kind of one of the things I'm going with when I make my maps. I'm stipulating something along the lines that "the world is so much in flux that maps on a global scale should be taken with a grain of salt". It allows for all of us to start roughly mapping out the world until we come to a consensus of what we want OR WotC gets a more "permanent" one in place (if that will even happen).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 17 May 2017 :  22:25:09  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
By the way, regarding this conversation of cartographers in a changing magical world.... anyone see the magicians episode on Syfy with the cartographer that got all upset when the castle "moved".... only to realize it was an illusion.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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RDS
Acolyte

USA
25 Posts

Posted - 18 May 2017 :  12:15:02  Show Profile Send RDS a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

By the way, regarding this conversation of cartographers in a changing magical world.... anyone see the magicians episode on Syfy with the cartographer that got all upset when the castle "moved".... only to realize it was an illusion.



Yes. His reaction was quite hilarious since it wasn't revealed till he had finally redrawn everything. Though our mapmaker on here might not find it so.

RDS
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 18 May 2017 :  13:54:37  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't think anyone on Toril would try to change the terrain (to the extent it has) on purpose. As Wooly stated, that would be a LOT of effort that would not be worth it. I think its just something that happens on a fairly constant basis (spread over centuries, mind you). And it not just a 'Realms' thing - its endemic to the D&Dverse itself. Ravenloft is, of course, the best example, but if we extrapolate outward, all those places that were in all those other worlds that made it into the Domains of Dread means that all those other worlds had changing terrain as well (although quite a few Domains were just 'copies'). Faerie (Now The Feywild) is another example of a place in constant flux (with tendrils reaching into all other worlds).

And in Planescape/The Great Wheel we see those border-towns are always slipping into the bordering Outer Planes (and then replaced, in a never-ending, always-changing pattern).

Thats why I (constantly) go all the way back to that very first issue of Dragon Magazine and that article that Gary Gygax wrote (under a Pen Name) about a first 'Shattered World'. Its more than just the stuff happening in The Realms with the two Sunderings - the very nature of the D&Dverse seems to be constantly in-flux, with bits of this or that coalescing into new things, and then breaking back apart again (including 'The Gods'). Hell, probably the supreme example of that would be the (4e) World of Nerath setting - its literally made out of pieces of a bunch of other settings (except for Nentir Vale, but that borrows from old published adventures as well). This is why I am always harping on the idea that D&D is the setting. NOT FR. The Forgotten Realms is just one giant chunk of the greater puzzle.

In fact, thats probably a great analogy - the universe is a shattered thing - a Puzzle - and certain beings (some of those Over-overgods I like to talk about) are trying to put it all back together. You ever build a puzzle, by yourself, or especially with others? How each person will have little 'finished clumps' that will eventually become part of the whole? And everyone has a little side-pile of 'maybes' (and sometimes you look at each other's piles and grab stuff you need). That kind of what it like, on a Cosmic scale. Some worlds are more 'stable' than others, but they are all part of this puzzle that's trying to get back together. That's how I picture the D&Dverse.

The big difference between Realmspace and other spheres is that Ao took his side-pile and actually fit it all together in a messy, not-quite-right lump (Abeir), which I assume he did to try and save the Creator races. Using the puzzle analogy again, Ao seems to have taken a major focal point of the original and is working on that (so its like you saying "I'm going to take all the 'wall' pieces and work on that", ect.). He seems to have gathered so may of a particular piece-type (ones containing primordials?) that he was able to build a secondary world (you ever build a puzzle with water? And parts of the main picture are reflected in the water? I have - its like that - you think the pieces go to one but it really goes to the other, but you still have to gather ALL those similar pieces for yourself). Thus, FR winds up with quite a bit more of this 'geography in flux' than most other Prime Worlds.


So basically, I use bits of lore - old and new - to try and explain all the out-of-game oddness we've had over the years, including the 3e maps. "Use the lore to explain the lore".

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 18 May 2017 13:56:05
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