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Matrix Sorcica
Seeker
Denmark
89 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Feb 2017 : 21:41:02
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| Good idea, both of you. Think it could work. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2017 : 21:48:43
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Your welcome.
If I can ask something for this project, I like to ask Markustay to add the village of Atwater to the map. Is a homebrewed village I made up for one adventure, but have a lot of sentimental value for me (?). Here is my crappy map for the location (and if you're interested, I can translate the lore about it to english). It's the point "11" in the map.
http://i.imgur.com/vZfGkhL.png |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 19 Feb 2017 21:49:37 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2017 : 22:24:32
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Yeah, I already got an outline of what happened there in my head, based on some of my conjecture in my last post; basically, The Shadowlord (of Ebenfar) created his own 'princes' for his realm by summoning fiends and creating Tieflings (although we probably have to go with the whole 4e thing connecting them to Asmodeus). Regardless, he got himself some tieflings as lieutenants, and then tasked them to find 'regions with powerful connections to shadow' (for his plans of expanding his empire). Then he was defeated by Talek Talembar, and his tielfing lieutenants scattered - one particular group fled to the Never (Nentir) Vale, where they had previously establish a fortress, having detected much shadow-energy in the area. From that base of operations the Bael Turath (of FR) began, keeping contact with other, former Ebenfar outposts, and establishing a major beachhead within the Shadowfell itself. From their Shadowfell holdings, the Bael Turath spread their evil into other worlds and planes. One of the first they discovered was one very close to Toril itself - Abeir. The world was in the same Sphere as Toril, but 'out of sync' with it, and therefor very hard to reach by any normal means. And so began their push into Abeir, attacking and taking the lands of many other peoples and kigndoms, including the great empire of Arkhosia. Such was the ferocity of the Dragonborn that the Tiefling armies met with that they were pushed back to the Shadowfell in most places, and the Arkhosians themselves built a presence within the Realm of Shadows, just to counter the Bael Tuarth aggressions.
And so it went, for several centuries, with one side occasionally pushing the other out of the Shadows, but no victory was long-lived, as the other side countered. Eventually these 'paths through shadow' became closed off, and many of the troops became stranded in one world or the other, or in the Shadofell. Although many believe it was the war itself that had whittled-down the power of both kingdoms, it was this lost of planer pathways ("The Road of Stars & Shadows") that caused the most damage to the now fractured Tielfing empire. Bael Turath fell into obscurity in The Realms, its ruins only to be discovered much later during the NERATH initiative to settle the Never (Nentir) Vale. Still later, when the Spellplague struck, the old pathways were forced back open, violently, and the shadowfell regurgitated much of what was forced upon it from the two worlds. Parts of both worlds were swapped, and many dragonborn found themselves on Toril, the world of their ancient enemies.
quote:
Originally posted by Matrix Sorcica
Second post on page 2 of this thread.
Carnath Roadhouse is from Hoard of the Dragon Queen. There's a map of the place, but not where it's located. The travel description says that the caravan spots the Mere of Dead Men after 7 days travel from Waterdeep, and reach the Roadhouse after 10.
Ah, okay - wrong product. I actually DO have that one. Thanks.
I just wanted to know how much detail it had, because I found an adventure in an old Dungeon magazine that is just PERFECT for it. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Feb 2017 23:41:51 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2017 : 22:33:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Your welcome.
If I can ask something for this project, I like to ask Markustay to add the village of Atwater to the map. Is a homebrewed village I made up for one adventure, but have a lot of sentimental value for me (?). Here is my crappy map for the location (and if you're interested, I can translate the lore about it to english). It's the point "11" in the map.
http://i.imgur.com/vZfGkhL.png
No problem at all - I already added one of my own; actually, something taken from Dungeon Magazine, for no other reason then I needed a tiny settlement there to explain a road, so I found a town that appeared in 2 different Dungeon adventures (stupidly, I didn't pick one with a map - I'll have to remedy that).
yes, I would be interested in its lore. I see how much attention to detail you spent on other things. We can include it in the final PDF version of the conversion.
EDIT:
I see 'Gray Company Headquarters' on two of the maps. What is this? A small settlement? A keep? Just a cluster of tents?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Feb 2017 00:56:50 |
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2017 : 01:09:32
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Of, the Gray Company. In NV canon, is a company of "loyalists" of old Nerath ideals and that stuff, who protect the old relics of the Empire and the good peoples, and all that rubbish. In truth, they use their "connection" to the old empire to plunder and steal people who have "old heirlooms from the Empire". They have like 30 leaders, all claiming to be the "last descendant of Emperor Elydir" (last emperor of Nerath). You can imagine the chaos when two cells meet.
They have "Mist Mages", spellcasters who control mist and undeads, and are dangerous in the Barrow (because the mists are more powerful there).
The one in the Barrows is their Nentir Vale cell. They are searching for the lost Sword of Nerath (a magic sword consecrated to Erathis (Athena)), that is believed to be near the Lake Nen; and the Triplefold Crown (a Crown that gives the owner power over the mortal realm, the Feywild and the Shadowfell. Or so the legend says).
In my FR conversion, I've made them a third faction of the Sons of Alagondars. With a "lost heir" and that stuff. Mmm maybe I can connect this to the storyline of the fake crown of my next campaign. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 20 Feb 2017 01:12:10 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2017 : 02:24:03
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The question wasn't so much a 'who', but rather, "what are they living in"? 
Their 'headquarters' is on the map, but that doesn't tell me a damn thing about what that is (a structure? a camp?)
I was just going to put a keep there (you can never have too many keeps in a D&D campaign), but I just wanted to make sure there wasn't some canon telling us what it is. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2017 : 03:18:41
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| The Monster Vault on Nentir Vale only says that they have their headquarters in the Gray Downs, and because of that they call themselves the Gray Company... :v so, I guess this time is up to you. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2017 : 03:20:27
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A keep... with a moat... with sharks in it... with freakin' lasers on their heads! 
Too much? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2017 : 23:34:28
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'Blackleaf ruins'? Between the Harken Forest and the Witchlight Fens? What kind of ruins are they?
Also, on the map you directed me (linked) to - the one from the WotC site - it says "Ghost Tower #1" right next to Kalton Manor; is this correct? I thought I recalled you saying something about the tower being on the same grounds as the Manor.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2017 : 00:37:49
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Blackleaf was village destroyed by a monster "a few weeks ago" when the Nentir Vale campaign start.
The Ghost Tower of the Witchlight Fens is a few miles north of Kalton Manor, properly in the Fens, visible from the ruins of the Manor, so is near. The map I have has the location wrong.
And there are a few standing stones from Bael Turath near the Tower (to the west, IIRC) as well. Those are the entrance to a subterranean complex of ruins. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2017 : 01:43:47
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Great, thanks.
I've already decided to do a 'blow up' version of this map when I'm done, just detailing the Nentir Vale itself (so basically, that piece of the map I've already posted for you guys to see, but 2x the size). I don't want the map to get too crowded, so I will put the 'fine' details on that one, like road names and stuff.
I've been picking through your great write-up of the entire Nerath/NV setting at the Piazza - its a pretty amazing and detailed labor of love. Some nifty stuff in there - I got some more ideas about what to do with the tielfings and dragonborn (and it all makes sense within the context of the 4e lore). I may even use some of the 'remote areas' on this or other maps (like the Frostfell - its a perfect fit in FR's Frozenfar).
You wouldn't happen to have a pdf version of that, would you? I've been meaning to copy & paste the whole thing into a document of my own, but if you have one it would save me the trouble. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2017 : 05:52:09
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| If you don't mind my really horrible english, I have made a gazetteer of sorts for the Nentir Vale. In the Nentir Vale section is an updated version of that post (I have to update that post, btw). I have not done anything like this to the regions beyond Nentir Vale, though. You can download it here. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 21 Feb 2017 06:37:39 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2017 : 06:48:11
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Oh, okay. That's the thing from the other thread? I think I already downloaded that. It seems MUCH longer than the stuff you put up at the Piazza, which DID include info outside of NV (some of which, as I've said, I intend to include).
And I haven't discerned anything wrong with your English.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Feb 2017 06:49:03 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2017 : 07:07:17
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Grammar stuff. That stings, because I'm a perfectionist, lol.
And nope. The other document is a "history compilation" (it had all historic lore I know of the setting), while this is document is like a campaign setting of sorts. It has detailed info about the Nentir Vale, like info about how classes and races are developed in this setting, specific monsters of the Vale, info about towns and a few adventure sites. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2017 : 18:52:08
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Still working on this - mostly doing research the past few days (I don't want to place anything in such a way that it conflicts with other stuff, or its own canon info).
I was trying to find the current NV date (so I know when other things happened in DR reckoning, in the blended timeline), and I noticed you had an entry for Brindol. Is the Elisr Vale stuff supposed to be on the Nerath World as well? 
I placed it down in the Shaar (where it belonged - 'Brindol' is the FR town of Rethmar) in a map I did as an 'official' placement, but IMG I have it to the north, around Mirabar, which makes me now think it wouldn't be a bad idea to do that here as well. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Feb 2017 18:52:26 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2017 : 19:54:00
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| Elsir Vale can be placed in the Nentir Vale world (there is no official placement, but Elsir Vale is related to Nerath in the Scales of War adventure path), but AFAIK, Elsir Vale can be placed in nearly every official world (Red Hand of Doom takes place in Greyhawk, and has official locations for Elsir Vale in FR and Eberron). |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2017 : 20:20:25
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RHoD is officially in GH? Even though the map was directly lifted right out of FR's Shaar?
Okaaaaaaaay...
I've noticed a couple of other 'generic' things that are actually in FR, although the way they wrote the 4e lore they just fudged stuff so it it appeared generic (like lore in Open Grave).
Regardless, there's a nice open area around and below Mirabar that will fit the Elsir Vale material nicely (although I can't do a blended version, as I did with NV, because we already have that EXACT geography to the south... so it would just be weird). Instead, I am going to make the AP sites work within the existing FR terrain in that area.
The beauty of this, as I move forward, is that I've come to appreciate the... versatility.. of 4e lore. You can 'layer' it like you were never able to in 1e/2e/3e FR. What I mean is, I am shunting most of the Arkhosian stuff into Abeir, and I am shifting much of the Bael Turath stuff into the Shadowfel (so the war shifted back-and-forth across worlds). Lastly, I am putting the Minotaur empire stuff in the Feywild, since some of it was already there anyway. I can fit entire empires into FR without actually having to physically fit them into The Realms. It also means that most of the 'history' is self-contained. Thats pretty damn neat, IMO.
EDIT:
Okay, so here I am resizing the RHoD map to the scale of the NV/FR conversion map, and trying to find a fairly decent placement (even though I am adapting it to the existing terrain, i still want things to fall-out around where they would have in the original - because if the APs are used, distances matter). I found a spot that was actually ideal (the dwarven holds couldn't have worked out better). The one thing that doesn't work is the big lake (which is Lake Lhespen in FR), but that's fine because I didn't want to copy the terrain anyway. I have this nice, 'swampy' area around the Ice Lakes just to the west there that are perfect. So I decide that I want to fit the Blackfens in there, right along the eastern edge of those lakes, between an existing road and an existing river...
The road is called The Blackford Road, and the river is the Black Raven River. 
Pretty much the definition of the word 'serendipitous' right there. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Feb 2017 20:43:17 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2017 : 21:28:23
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| The good thing about 4e core lore its that it was modular. You can use it in whatever form you like, if you wanted to use it. If they have done the same with 4e FR, I can bet there would not have been edition wars and lore problems... too bad they learned that by the end of 4e (as shown in the Neverwinter Campaign Setting). |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 22 Feb 2017 21:29:18 |
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Matrix Sorcica
Seeker
Denmark
89 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2017 : 08:11:43
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Red Hand of Doom is not officially in GH at all, Zeromaru must be misremebering. In 3e, it was 'worldless', but used a map identical to the FR one, allowing GMs to place it effortlessly in the Realms. The Elsir Vale is part of 4e canon - the Red Hand itself is mentioned in the DMG, there's a reference to Nerath in trhe Scales of War AP, and the Fane of Tiamat features in a delve in Dungeon Delve. So there's that.
MArkus, It would be so cool if you Elsir gets included as well :) |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2017 : 08:58:38
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RHoD mentions specific gods of Greyhwak, such as St. Cuthbert and Flag...something, the god of travels (IIRC). But yeah, it was generic enough to be put in any setting. And has guidelines to be located in Faerun and in Khorvaire. Later, Scales of War adopted it as part of Nerath, but those gods I mentioned before do not exist in NV world, so maybe the Elsir Vale of the Scales of War maybe is a "parallel" version of the original one from 3.5 that existed in NV world (not the first time that something like this happens in NV world: we have Inverness Castle, Erelhei-Cinlu and many others examples of parallel versions of regions from other worlds in NV world). |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 23 Feb 2017 09:03:00 |
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Matrix Sorcica
Seeker
Denmark
89 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2017 : 13:17:34
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Maybe. I think the mentioning of the GH gods is because those were the default 3E gods, and the module itself is setting neutral (except for using a piece of renamed FR map). No biggie, though.
As for 4E, I think it's safe to say it's part of the canon (the AP, the dungeon delve). |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2017 : 13:24:30
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| Yeah, its ingrained in NV canon. Instead of optional, as it happens with their guidelines for FR or Eberron. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2017 : 17:31:47
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Yeah, they took an FR map (methinks some designers 'home campaign'), and attached 'Core' rules/lore to it (which makes you think its GH), and then made offhand mentions of the Nentir Vale... which leaves it really in weird 'game limbo' (Abeir? )
Not really a joke - I am starting to think placing the 'non-setting' 4e setting in Abeir is ideal - I used to jokingly think of Abeir as 'gods attic' where he stores all the crap he isn't currently using (like extra legos), but now I'm starting to take that theory seriously. What if its not just for FR? What if its something closer to The Domains of Dread? Stuff gets moved in and out of it all the time, and the people there are none the wiser. IT gives Abeir a certain... creepier... vibe. We know that FR has become the 'center of the Prime Material' (a theory I threw around TEN years ago or more *ahem*) in 5e lore - that somehow everything that happens to it affects everything else (in the multiverse). So what if thats it? Ao gets this boatload of 'pieces' that he is constantly rearranging, and everything he doesn't currently want or need goes into Abeir... which means stuff from ALL OVER the multiverse could wind up there (and eventually in FR... or GH).
From a RW PoV, this is EXACTLY what happened with FR. "Desert of Desolation? Rewrite it and shoe-horn it into the Realms. Bloodstone Lands? Lets get rid of some of that ice and stick it in there. What?! Our 'British initiative' got cancelled?! Oh crap... lets just stick the Moonshaes in FR. Lots of 'kewl' pantheons? We can stick those down in the old Empires. RW Mesoamerican and Asian history? Oh boy... we're gonna need more room..."
Ao is VERY real, and he has MANY names - Io, TSR, WotC, Hasbro... 
quote:
Originally posted by Matrix Sorcica
MArkus, It would be so cool if you Elsir gets included as well :)
DONE
But honestly, I had decided to do this last night anyway. I *may* move the current NV/FR map slightlty down coast (giving us some stuff right up to Waterdeep, which is pretty neat), just so that I can do another full map (some overlap) above it. I wuld probably even be able to cover Icewind Dale that way. I haven't played with any of that - just made that decision last night as I was going to bed, and today I am busy AF doing RW stuff, so I won't know for sure which way I want to proceed until later.
And for those folks waiting on my Cormyr > Impiltur maps, this won't really cost me a whole lot more time (most of it was already laid-out - my maps are always WAAAAY bigger than the ones I finally release). Sad as it sounds, I think something like this will see 10x or more usage than something like those, if only because all the focus seems to be over to the west right now - its where 5e is located. 'Usability' has become my primary criteria these days; my time is limited, and I don't like to waste it. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Feb 2017 17:42:36 |
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Matrix Sorcica
Seeker
Denmark
89 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2017 : 18:41:21
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So excited!
This ends up being the end all be all for setting maps. So many cool sites and adventure seeds in those areas, combined with my favorite FR part. Nice! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2017 : 17:33:41
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Should have something later today. Its been slow-going.
The forest just west of the Old Hills has no name? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2017 : 18:18:44
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Canon? None.
In my homebrew campaign I named it the Howling Forest, a canon forest where the fey city of Shinaelestra appears in the mortal world every night. Canonically it makes sense, because Mithrendain is also close to the Nentir Vale. Specifically, close to Winterhaven (according to Madness at Garmore Abbey), and eladrin from Mithrendain are common in the Vale. If we look the official map of the Feywild (from Heroes of the Feywild), Mithrendain is close to Shinaelestra, making the place a perfect site to cross between the two worlds.
http://imgur.com/B1jQkXb
The forest in the Chaos Scar (that is an off-shot of the forest west to the Old Hills) is also a place infested with fey creatures, so placing the Howling Forest there makes sense.
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Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 17 Mar 2017 18:27:24 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2017 : 18:55:56
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Weird day today and the internet is being real slow for me, so I have no update as of yet (although I'm REAL close to one - I just need to drop all the text down to one layer to put the glow around it). I'm only about 1/3 of the way through that (got too busy yesterday adding more, rather then just polishing and posting what I already had.
Plus, I got side-tracked on the Jakandor/Abeir near Chult map (which became somewhat more involved than it was supposed to, when I decided to color it in). ADHD is at it again. {sigh}
Trust me, the wait is gonna be worth it. The only thing I wasn't 100% happy with was a 'moor' kind of terrain. Right now I am using the old FR standard, AND using Mike Schley's art in the Nentir Vale region. Unfortunately, over the years, many designers (and authors) seem to have a problem with the 'moor' terrain type, and pictured it more like a 'badlands', or a swamp/marsh - I've seen the high Moor represented as all three. So now I am playing with things - maybe a 'wetter' version of the rolling hills (which I am also working on perfecting - not as spiffy as Mike's, but I'm getting there).
So Mike's terrain is still on MY version of the Nentir Vale because I haven't perfected the 'badlands' thing yet. I rather have it look nice than have that part ruin the rest (and it falls under the category of 'derivative work'). I'll have it replaced before the project is finalized, though. As I said, its more of a 'placeholder' for now because I want to post another update without bogging down in 'style development'. This map is going much slower than usual because of that (but I consider it practice for my real project - the new maps of Faerūn I am dying to get back to). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Mar 2017 18:58:13 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2017 : 19:22:14
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| As I said before, take your time. Seeing your other maps, I know the wait will be worth it. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2017 : 13:52:20
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Worked on this the better part of yesterday. I even have the full Princes of the Apocalypse book now (from Amazon - amazing how once you get used to using PDF's for research, physical books seem weird now). I wanted to get enough done to post a WIP, but still haven't gotten all the names grouped together in single layers (its more time-consuming than I anticipated; since I can't edit names after I do that, I have to double-check everything and make sure they're positioned perfectly/not in the way of other text, correctly spelled, spaced right, etc). I also wanted to add-in a bunch of Underdark sites, which I had to research to get perfect, and that ate up a lot of the day as well. I should have waited on that until the next update. 
I don't want you guys to think I've given up on this one. Its just that I have less time now, but I do try and put in at least a couple of hours each day. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Apr 2017 13:55:39 |
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Where to put Nentir Vale on the Sword Coast?
