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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Jul 2016 : 15:30:43
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The ideas, they keep coming. I've been thinking about a small product focusing on alternate classes for drow: courtesan, gladiator, and alchemist come immediately to mind. This would be accompanied by short fiction to give an idea how the classes could be used in an adventure, along with more typical fighters, clerics, and wizards.
As it happens, I have a wonderful piece of art that I could use for this project. Years ago, I commissioned a piece by Kay Allen for the short story "Gorlist's Dragon," which is set in a drow gladiatorial arena.
Hmmm.... Wonder if WotC would give permission to reprint that particular story. It was published in DRAGON Magazine shortly before the collection Best of the Realms III: The Stories of Elaine Cunningham was published, and the editor decided not to include that story because it had been published so recently. Not sure who I'd ask these days, but it's something to consider.
Justing thinking with my fingers here (aka "brainstorming.") Comments and suggestions welcomed.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2016 : 17:35:05
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| Yummy. |
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Adhriva
Learned Scribe
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2016 : 17:58:49
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| Why classes and not archetypes in exsisting classes? |
Professional illustrator and comic book artist.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2016 : 21:31:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Adhriva
Why classes and not archetypes in exsisting classes?
That's a good question. Archetypes would work better for certain skill sets; a gladiator, for example, is simply a specialized type of fighter. I'm not sure what an alchemist would be. Not quite a wizard, even though there's a considerable amount of magic in potions. As for a courtesan, I suppose rogue would work, though I'm leaning more toward bard in that courtesans would be very similar to male geisha--highly educated and skilled in several types of entertainment arts. |
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Adhriva
Learned Scribe
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2016 : 00:30:29
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I would also lean towards Bard for a courtesan.
As for the alchemist....
If I was acting as the designer, I would go with Warlock for Alchemist. When most people think of an Alchemist class, they think of the Pathfinder one. I do not believe that would be the best fit for 5e. There are a number of mechanics that could be used to simulate an Alchemist quite well, but the closest and most balanced with the existing is that of the Warlock and their pact magic system. With the Pathfinder Alchemist, and the 'conversions' (stated or not as such) that are out there, the class is presented as a grenade thrower or potion dispenser and was usually regulated through items available, gold, carrying capacity, and the like. In 5e, it has been my experience that form of balance tends to break down over the course of a campaign, as such, my thoughts are the class should center around a Spell-like Ability rather then items themselves. Less bookkeeping, easier to balance, and far more streamlined to play.
At third level, you pick up the archetype which grants the spell-like ability to use whatever concoctions you have. Using the ability does cost a spell slots, and is generally treated as casting a spell for the purposes of combat (the vial the mixture is in acts as the arcane focus, mechanically speaking). You can replace one of the spells you know with a mixture of some kind (effects varying from healing to magical blast damage to intoxication/debuff to being a stimulant). The more potent the spellslot, the more potent the effect of the concoction. This basic idea offers a very flexible archetype that is relying on existing mechanics, streamlines the bookkeeping behind such a class, and I imagine would be fairly easy to balance. You can even introduce new invocations that can increase the effect - from range, or allows 2 additional uses of the spell-like ability (not extra spell slots, just free uses of the ability), or much more. You can even have some fun with the patrons for more specialized brews (mad scientist trope anyone?).
The only place it fails is the fact that not every alchemist would have a supernatural patron to strike deals with in order to brew - so perhaps an option for a Noble House could act as 'patron' that could be added for a less supernatural backer.
Just my 2 cents. |
Professional illustrator and comic book artist.
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1265 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2016 : 01:21:00
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| My knowledge of editions really ended with 2nd in terms of mechanics; but anything you do has me interested, Elaine! (Also Drow Courtesan sounds so intriguing to role play) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2016 : 03:59:25
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| Pathfinder alchemists are also rather capable of buffing themselves up with their potions. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2016 : 08:12:13
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Hmmm, initially, I thought the idea of alchemist combined with warlock would be interesting as I read it.... its the patron that becomes the issue. Perhaps though they get a lesser sort of spellcasting, such that a variation on the rogue (arcane trickster) path would work. Maybe all their spellcasting is potions, bombs, etc... and they also learn some skill in physical combat. Their sneak attack damage might all have to do with poisons and not hitting someone where it hurts. Just a thought..
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2016 : 00:16:30
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hmmm, initially, I thought the idea of alchemist combined with warlock would be interesting as I read it.... its the patron that becomes the issue. Perhaps though they get a lesser sort of spellcasting, such that a variation on the rogue (arcane trickster) path would work. Maybe all their spellcasting is potions, bombs, etc... and they also learn some skill in physical combat. Their sneak attack damage might all have to do with poisons and not hitting someone where it hurts. Just a thought..
I have not played 5ed much but I really like the warlock alchemist idea. Could the patron be a god like Gond? Mundane patrons are also good idea but they will probably give you another kind of bonuses than spells.
For me idea of alchemist is about magic used indirectly through potions, "granades" and such. Mage cannot cast spell on whole party but they can all use a potion at the same time also sometimes it is more beneficial if somebody else have that potion to use on you... |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2016 : 09:12:38
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IMO the best mechanics for alchemists would be something like what was used for various Al-Qadim artificier "wizards" (in AD&D2-based mechanics) or Eberron artificiers (in d20-based).
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KismetRose
Acolyte
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2016 : 16:17:17
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I based the hetaera class for Pathfinder loosely on the courtesan traditions of ancient Greece because I'd never seen anything so specific done like that before. I would love to see another gameified take on the concept, whether it's done up as a class or some other mechanic.
It would be great to see it done with drow in mind from the start, perhaps based on their unique tradition of courtesanship. I've woven courtesan drow into my games for a long time but have yet to see the combination elsewhere very much (though this piece of art stood out when I found it). Some of the tribes of drow I created for another setting have plenty of courtesans, and since I can easily envision scattered across Faerun, I'm sure the blend will stand out.
One thing I'm wondering is how such a tradition will square with the outlook of Lolth, Eilistraee, and Vhaeraun (if you're planning on writing it for Faerun's drow in 5e in particular). In short, I'm eager to see this happen! |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2016 : 21:10:45
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I'd go with a Rogue for Alchemists, use the Arcane Trickers as a template, except granting potions instead of skills and grant Alchemist kits profiency with automatic expertise, instead of stealing a spell, allow the Alchemist to distill a dead spell caster into a potion.
Gladitor is obviously a fighter, I'd go with Champion, and focus on Gladitor weapons, while taking the feat to grant a couple of manvuevers that focus on messing with the target.
Coustesan I'd break into subgroups, most elite Courtesans would be bards, but more religious minded ones could be Paladins, perhaps an Oath of Passion, that combines religious service with a duty to spread sexual healing to those in need "Sacred Whore" archetype, with an emphasis on lust, but also faith, universal love, and self sacrifice. Part of the Oath might be that their married to either God/dess, and so they can't enter into monogomous relationships, heck I might do this one.
And Coin Companions (Gender Nuetral Coin Lass/Lad), a Rogue subclass for none magic users who focus on skill, dexertity, and hard work, more likely from more working class backgrounds, unlike the Courtesan. |
Edited by - Gyor on 19 Aug 2016 21:14:02 |
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Adhriva
Learned Scribe
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2016 : 21:31:29
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This is Drow architypes though.... I mean, while I love the notion of a sacred whore archetype (Oh blessed Elua, we're in dire need of a servant of Naamah this night!) and their uncanny ability to bring down scheming matriarchs....actually, that's exactly what the Drow need.
I think I'm starting to see where Eilistraee and Vhaeraun are going with their alliance......
:P |
Professional illustrator and comic book artist.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2016 : 22:18:22
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Given that much of Drow society is female dominated, it might make sense for most Courtesans to actually be male, Males using seduction as a tool for influencing the Matron Mothers, although in Drow communities not dominated by Lloth it would more likely to be equal.
Actual while thinking about it, the Noble Houses Male Weapon Master, would likely be a Male Fighter, but also something of a Courtesan. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2016 : 22:42:21
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| Still full classes for Courtesan, Gladitor, and Alchemists could awesome too, if they come with their own subclasses too. |
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Drow Classes
