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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Jun 2016 : 17:20:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
Also talking about survivor states I have found strange that no settlement is mentioned in unoccupied region SW from Netheril where Talfiric people will make their kingdoms later. I have placed Anauria there as it doesn't make much sense to settle within Anauroch basin when you run from Lifedrain effects and there are already some netheries villas and tombs in that region (so I merged Talfiric stock with netheries survivors).
That's where their "Frontier" was back then - with orcs ("orc mating grounds. Warning: springtime is worst!"), and barbarians and increasingly unamused elves. Not an area where they could run to recover.
Conversely, they earned few long-term enemies on the East.
quote:
A few archwizards, however, debated whether to subjugate the eastern nations under their rule. All plans to infiltrate the eastern
cultures were laid to rest when the western lands, controlled
loosely by barbaric tribesmen who were “sired by the consum-
mation of the Earthmother (an aspect of Jannath) and a wolf,”
were deemed an easier target. The Terraseer, a mysterious oracle,
was probably the main reason Netheril didn’t expand to the east.
- Netheril: Empire of Magic
Also, there were "survivor states" to SW.
1) West: the closest was Ascalhorn. Then the fiends wiped it out - with Wulgreth's help behind the scene.
Wulgreth probably culled some other refugees, too.
2) West: someone else moved beyond the most dangerous area, to the coast - the candlestick Host Tower was built by the Netherese. But probably not much of them.
3) More South: the only Netherese survivors who ran SW and managed to stick around longer than this were those who ran all the way to... what became Halruaa. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 21 Jun 2016 17:21:25 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2016 : 20:45:59
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I can see we have a more than a few differing opinions likely caused by the Netheril sourcebook itself and those errors were then compounded by the sacred cow of canon.
When it comes to the survivor states you have to remember that an exodus from the Netheril basin began as far back as -550 DR when the desert first began to appear. Because the desert appeared first in the west (in the Rengarth Ancestral Lands) the Low Netherese fled first heading NW, W, and SW.
Now the Netheril Basin was enclosed on all sides. The only escape points were west or east into the massive elf controlled forests of Cormanthor and the High Forest. Many of those elves were none to happy with the humans of Netheril and the Low Netherese had no way of knowing the elves would take pity on them. Other escape points were NW into Delzoun and SW through the Tunlands into the Heartlands. The place known as Shadow Gap leading SE did not exist at this time it was still hill and mountain.
So the Low Netherese began fleeing through those points from -550 DR onwards as the desert spread. As it got bigger more people fled.
Those fleeing NW formed the base of the Netherese settlement of the North (which was swept away after the fall of Ascalhorn and paved the way for the Illuskan settlement of the North). Those fleeing SW mingled with the Jhaam and helped form the basis of the Chondathan people that settled the Vilhon Reach and the Dragon Coast and then spread into Cormyr and Sembia and the Dalelands (other waves of immigration into Cormyr and Sembia and the Dalelands also occurred from Impiltur which was also settled by Jhaam and Netherese survivors).
The High Netherese (pure blooded Netherese) were concentrated on the enclaves and in the region of Seventon. The enclave dwellers were almost all killed except for a few thousand on the enclaves of Anauria, Asram, and Hlondath which crashed near Azirrhat (I think), although those High Netherese that fled before the fall founded places like Illuskan and Halrua etc.
They couldn't flee west because the desert had covered all the lands west of Conch by that point. The Hidden Vale was overrun by goblinoids. The Rystall Woods were decimated thanks to the elemental forces and Maram of the Great Spear that the Netherese themselves unleashed (thus the elves would likely be very upset). So they fled south to the Crescent Lands (the gap between the Hidden Vale and the Desertsmouth Mountains).
Here was a lush valley with plenty of water. It was far enough from the desert to not worry about it. Plus as it turned out the Anaurian hive was right beneath their feet and when the phaerimm tried to travel beneath the survivor states and cast life drain spells (how they spread the desert everywhere else) the beholders fought back and started a centuries long war (ending when Ooltul fell).
The Tunlands were nominally part of Netheril because it was the Angarth Ancestral Lands. Not exactly an orc haven (since the barbarians hated orcs) but during the Shadowed Age Netheril began to fall apart so all kinds of monsters moved back into Netheril's former territory. The desert however didn't spread into the Tunlands until after -339 as the phaerimm were driving it east towards Seventon and ignored the Angarth Lands (natural desertification spread it south over hundreds of years).
Ebenfar was centred in this area so we know there was human habitation in the region after Netheril's fall. Elminster's Ecologies and the Tunlar Barbarian legends also talk of civilisations around Farsea Lake (now Farsea Marsh).
So my proposal is that many small kingdoms arose in this area and banded together into a seven throned kingdom before being destroyed by the machinations of Gorothir (who destroyed it with a lie supposedly). This kingdom was made up of talfir, angarth, Low Netherese, and horse nomads from northern Jhaamdath.
After the breakup the Angarth become the Tunlar barbarians, the talfir are gradually moved westwards until they hit the moonshae isles, the Low Netherese join with the Chondathan people. The land then becomes home to the goblins (the goblin marches) and forms a large part of the empire of Hlundadim.
But that's all my theories. There are a ton of quotes spread throughout almost every sourcebook for 2nd and 3rd edition. I just collected them all and joined the dots as best they could.
Oh and thanks for the inspiration Wrigley. That Kurtulmak quote gave me plenty of thoughts on a number of conundrums (like the Labyrinth and the cave of whispers) and solved where those kobolds came from that slew the Angardt. |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2016 : 01:59:02
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| Nice detailed explanation. It is obvious you have done much better research than me. I am trying to simplify it somewhat so it is easier to remember. You have solved SW migration by saying they mixed with Jhaam people. For me they made stock of Talfiric subrace and their shadow magic king makes a little more sense this way (your version is more detailed and comes to the same conclusion - netheries influence in area). For NE migration I have only problem with oficial informations regarding Northkeep as it is obvious that there were much older settlements in Moonsea area. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2016 : 21:29:49
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My hopes are that you will make full view of Netheril through Ages but it should be noted that to connect the dots you need to write some creative musing so it will not be a clean reference point for canon lore. I think it is actualy better because simple reference book would be unusable for many and as you seem to uphold Ed's rule of three it should be fine.
Do you have a clear idea about usage of Shadow Magic in netheril. It is mentioned somewhere that Lord Shadow invented it but I believe that Shar have longer fingers than that. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2016 : 23:04:19
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| Is excavation of Tunland mentioned somewhere in books? |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Netheril: The First Age
