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CylverSaber
Seeker
95 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Aug 2016 : 04:15:59
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I overall enjoyed the book, but have some complaints. The younger characters get pretty badly treated. Vajra was portrayed as an incompetent who needed to be swatted away whenever she popped up. Jalester and Dunblade got their butts kicked at every turn, so why bother hiring them?
I think the internal story logic of the book starts to fall apart somewhere around Laeral's battle with Cazondur and Glenmaur. I like that the Chosen have been majorly depowered and need to rely on their wits, and it's good for a book like this, which is focused on the earthly concerns of a major city, to not have the gods play a big role. But after making a point of showing that resurrections aren't easy anymore, they basically made an end run around that with the body destruction/body switching elements, which really undermines the stakes for the major characters.
I love Mirt as always, but I agree it's baffling he got off without consequences for the murder of the priest, and that goes double for Tasheene who was one of the most murderous characters in the book! Really, after all the carnage and destruction, with members of the ruling government being murdered daily and it being revealed publicly that this was masterminded by a leader of the city, we never get any sense that this has actually destabilized Waterdeep, and in the end everything seems alright.
I did enjoy the inclusion of all the different elements of Waterdeep, especially the Xanathar being involved. The giants' subplot went nowhere, but it seems it's the new thing in the novels to include an obligatory game product tie-in that doesn't relate at all to the story. I liked Mordenkainen's role and would like to see more crossovers to other settings. Elminster on Athas, perhaps? |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2016 : 04:20:37
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As I said, I really enjoyed the book, but I too had problems with Tasheene getting away like that, which left me very perplexed. Same for the usefulness (or lack thereof) of the characters that you mentioned.
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Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2016 : 14:51:22
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quote:
Originally posted by _Midnight_
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by _Midnight_
No one else was the least bit concerned that Mirt straight up murdered the first high priest that said they could not revive one of his whorespies 
I thought it was perfectly within Mirt's character. He's never reall quite been a "good guy"
Yeah, Mirt has always been shady, but he seemed to reserve the killing for people who were up to no good. He certainly wasn't reticent to hurt people in other ways to benefit himself, but it just seemed a bit jarring I guess that he would murder this guy out in the middle of the street.
Or that absolutely no one cared. Lord of not, he straight up murdered a guy without any reason in front of multiple witnesses and no one seems to care.
Also Tasheene admited to have murdered several innocent hidden lords and all seems to be forgiven with no reason at all. Just because she at first believed her employers lie that those were corrupt is no excuse. And even during that time she didn't take care to only slay her "corrupt" targets, she gleefully murders guards and house servants and just about anybody in the vicinity of her original target (she even burned down an entire brothel full of people just to hide the murder of one lord). And her punishment? Nothing at all.
Not the worst FR novel of all time, but the worst I have read for quite some time. I finished only today because I had to lay it down for extended periods of time because I couldn't stand all this stupidity going on anymore |
Edited by - Mirtek on 11 Sep 2016 14:55:21 |
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BrianDavion
Seeker
71 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2016 : 22:29:58
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| Tasheene's fate Isn't explictly spelled out, but my understanding is she basicly struck a plea deal. arranging to testify against her employer in return for concessions. likely she's now basicly serving as an agent of Mirts. |
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MaskedOne
Acolyte
42 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2016 : 02:41:51
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It's the only Greenwood novel (of those I've read) to date that I actively dislike. I get it, Mirt, Laeral and El are operating under some restrictions they really don't like...
but they've just spent a century operating under exceptionally harsh limitations, it's not like this is 1386 and the world has just been pulled from under their feet. Past that though, let some of the youngsters shine and if you are going to keep the idiot ball nailed to the hands of older characters then make sure that they pay in some lasting way. Possibly start by forcing Laeral to take action against Mirt for murdering a high priest in the middle of the street. |
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Clegane
Seeker
65 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2016 : 17:12:13
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I gave the book a try and was disappointed. Try as I might, I just cant get into FR fiction post v.3.5. The setting, lore, and game supplements up to that point had the feeling of depth that was probably borne out of Ed's realms that he created in the 60's and nurtured through the years. 4th ed, spell plague, fast forward feels empty, commercialized, and manufactured and trying using Elminster, Laeral, Mirt, etc. feels like shoehorning for the sake of trying to say "it's still the realms really."
I think this was last book I'll buy new unless they go back to writing in FR 1300's. |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2016 : 17:22:22
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quote:
Originally posted by MaskedOne
It's the only Greenwood novel (of those I've read) to date that I actively dislike. I get it, Mirt, Laeral and El are operating under some restrictions they really don't like...
but they've just spent a century operating under exceptionally harsh limitations, it's not like this is 1386 and the world has just been pulled from under their feet. Past that though, let some of the youngsters shine and if you are going to keep the idiot ball nailed to the hands of older characters then make sure that they pay in some lasting way. Possibly start by forcing Laeral to take action against Mirt for murdering a high priest in the middle of the street.
Mirt has been over the top for a while. He's a fun character, but him beating Manshoon unconscious 2 books ago was ridiculous. Granted, they were in a magic suppressing mansion, but Manshoon is still a vampire lord. His strength, agility, speed, and reflexes are all going to be superhuman. Then again, Manshoon is the comic relief villain at this point (who's been depowered now too). |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2017 : 00:51:10
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So, this is why resurrection is harder to cast. It's not about gods being so distant to no longer grant it, it's about them holding on that magic 'cause of Acererak's plan. From ENWorld
"Tomb of Annihilation is in the Forgotten Realms set in the Lost Continent of Chult - Away from the Sword Coast (the hosts of the live stream are very interested with undead dinosaurs). Acererak is, as many predicted, the source of this plotline as the Archlich is more or less "eating" resurrection magic from the rest of the Forgotten Realms and causing a zombie apocalypse. Pendleton Ward from Adventure Time is a creative consultant on this adventure." |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 04 Jun 2017 00:52:22 |
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KraziJoe
Acolyte
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2017 : 22:00:46
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I liked the book overall but it did seem disjointed at times. One of the last scenes with Mordenkainen made it appear he was writing the story. At least it did to me and that's the way I interpreted it.
waiting for the last Drizzt book to come down in price then I am done with FR, unless they release new books. |
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maddwaffles
Acolyte
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2017 : 08:57:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Barbarossa rotbart
I think that the scenes with the giants are tie-ins with "Storm King's Thunder".
The gods being silent to their priests seems to be an explanation for the loss of power of all divine spellcasters in 5e.
There is one thing that puzzles me: Why is Mordenkainen out of his mind and in the casre of Elminster? He is from Oerth and the magic of Oerth was never in the care of Mystra.
As mentioned before, Curse of Strahd, but why he was inserted, it could have been nuance. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2017 : 12:48:26
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Ed was asked to showcase all of these things by WotC as oblique nods to the gaming products.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Baptor
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2017 : 02:36:54
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Since this is a spoilers page, I have a question.
Does Elminster die? |
Jesus said, "I am the Ressurection and the Life. Anyone who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and those who live and believe in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" |
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Madpig
Learned Scribe
Finland
148 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2017 : 07:12:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptor
Since this is a spoilers page, I have a question.
Does Elminster die?
Does James Bond die in movies?  |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1265 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2017 : 23:22:26
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| Death is now meaningless in the Realms and has been since the time skip. For Elminster, it's completely meaningless. Poor Sylune for dying before everyone came back from the dead. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2017 : 23:32:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Death is now meaningless in the Realms and has been since the time skip. For Elminster, it's completely meaningless. Poor Sylune for dying before everyone came back from the dead.
Syluné is back, in a form. She's still a ghost, but she's also still there. Poor Simbul, and poor Qilué. I mean, the former is essentially part of Mystra now, but it'd be cool to see her as a sort of avatar of Mystra with her own identity; it'd also be cool if Eilistraee and Mystra gave Qilué a second chance after their return. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 15 Dec 2017 23:32:18 |
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Baptor
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2017 : 02:52:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Death is now meaningless in the Realms and has been since the time skip. For Elminster, it's completely meaningless. Poor Sylune for dying before everyone came back from the dead.
When death is meaningless - does life have meaning? :(
They said a reboot wasn't possible. Kind of silly when comic book worlds get rebooted all the time - and this seems to have become essentially a comic book setting if "death is meaningless." |
Jesus said, "I am the Ressurection and the Life. Anyone who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and those who live and believe in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2017 : 02:56:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptor
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Death is now meaningless in the Realms and has been since the time skip. For Elminster, it's completely meaningless. Poor Sylune for dying before everyone came back from the dead.
When death is meaningless - does life have meaning? :(
Yes, it can very well have. WotC killed off so many characters without any (in-world) reason, or for reasons that defeat their purpose. In such cases, yes, life does have a meaning (and, generally speaking, death isn't what gives life a meaning. A meaningful life could end with a meaningless death, and vice-versa).
Death became meaningless in the Realms when WotC decided to blast the setting apart towards the end of 3e and then fastforward 100 years. Undoing that isn't going to make things worse. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 16 Dec 2017 02:58:07 |
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Death Masks *spoilers*
