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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Nov 2015 : 08:54:49
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Hi all,
I wanted to get some input on an ad hoc Sword Coast town I am inserting into my campaign. 5th Edition Era circa 1490s. First let me post the town's basic description. Thanks in advance for input.
Amberton (population 1500) is a small town located along the Coast Way in the Western Heartlands. The settlement lies just beyond the eastern borders of the Cloakwood Forest, roughly two days ride south of Baldur’s Gate. Once a sleepy village, the settlement has grown into a robust trading town in recent decades, thanks in part to the growth and revival of Baldur’s Gate to the north. The town’s name comes from the generous deposits of amber (and other precious stones) found in the area. The town is primarily a human settlement, but has a small but industrious halfling minority as well. The main tavern is The Drunken Satyr.
The town is enclosed by a wooden palisade which protects it from the occasional incursions of wild beasts and other dangerous creatures that inhabit the nearby Cloakwood Forest. As of DR 1490, Amberton is a recognized protectorate of Baldur’s Gate. Although the town’s governor is typically selected by the town’s council (an appointment based on experience and merit), the Baldurian government officially reserves the right to rubber-stamp (or reject) any appointee in order to ensure that the interests of Amberton continue to be aligned with those of Baldur’s Gate. The current governor of Amberton is Tarsakh “Tarsie” Evergreen (NG), a retired female Human Ranger who is originally a native of Baldur’s Gate.
As a trading town astride the Coast Way, Amberton is a regular stopover for merchants and caravans traveling between the large metropolis of Baldur’s Gate and the southernmost cities of the Sword Coast (Candlekeep, Beregost) as well as the border towns of Amn.
Exports: Precious stones, lumber, furs and hides, wool
Government type: Meritocracy (Protectorate of Baldur's Gate)
Question 1: does the wooden palisade "walled town" defense make sense here? Or is the town large enough to warrant a real granite/cement walled fortress? The town is not a target of Orc hordes or goblin armies in recent decades. No army is going to besiege Amberton anytime soon. Amberton's most regular enemies are…. wild beasts, wandering monsters, occasional lycanthropes, and mischievous satyrs that reside in the dangerous Cloakwood Forest. And occasionally, a rampaging Owlbear might come out of the forest to maul a town citizen, etc. With the current governor being an experienced Ranger, she would be against erecting stone/granite walls anyways.
Question 2: any advice on other exports or what Amberton's economy should be? All I could think of are the opals (precious stones) that are plentiful in this area of the Sword Coast (in MY Realms anyways). But lumber export makes sense since it's like a couple miles away from a large wild forest. Would all the lumberjacks get slaughtered by the forest beasts/monsters as soon as they start cutting down trees? Is there anything else in this area of Sword Coast that could contribute to the town's economy and prosperity?
Question 3: should Governor Evergreen still be angry that her parents named her Tarsakh? At least she wasn't born in the month of Marpenoth… 
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Edited by - moonbeast on 22 Jan 2016 01:47:09
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2015 : 10:16:21
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Thoughts:
1. Size doesn't have to determine whether or not a community has "real" walls. Berdusk, for instance... sure there's enough people to justify walls, but there are no walls. Other factors can always influence the local government's decision to *not* build walls. It costs money, for instance, and maybe Baldur's Gate doesn't want to front that cash because they're concerned that Amberton might think too highly of itself once it gets real walls, plus the little protectorate should earn its own money instead of leeching off of them (Baldur's Gate).
2. Timber would be my first guess, yea. Circa 1372 wool appears on the trade map for that area (3e FRCS, p 88) so I'm guessing sheep-herding is a popular pastime. Fish, and seafood in general, can also be a good option. Every city will try to focus their exports on whatever they can get the most profit out of. Baldur's Gate, Athkatla, whatever other significant cities are around there in your campaign... they'll be exporting other things, leaving the simple stuff like fish, shrimp, oysters, whatever, for the "little guy" Amberton to dabble in. Perhaps a couple of families in your town have developed their own "secret ingredients" and have thriving businesses sending ingredients or even preserved entrees up and down the Sword Coast and inland to Elturel/Iriaebor/Berdusk.
3. Tarsy is not exactly awe-inspiring. It does have a friendly familial feel to it though, and that can be useful for a governor... both to relax the locals (who might be more wary if her name were Grimhilde Harpytalons or "Greataxe" Spleensucker) and also to better take measure of outlanders like PCs (who might be lulled by her cute nickname and matronly appearance into thinking that she's easily-manipulated into giving them the keys to the town coffers).
Afterthought: Tarsakh is a much nicer name than Tarrasque. 
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2015 : 15:27:29
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| Was the decision to name the governor after the month of April deliberate? |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2015 : 22:47:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Was the decision to name the governor after the month of April deliberate?
Deliberate. She is a ranger with a surname of Evergreen. So her parents were probably woodland hippy types with a love for nature and the outdoors. And as providence would have it…. she was born in the mid-spring month of Tarsakh. She probably is not fond of her birth name, since it is a guttural harsh-sounding name. So she adopted the variant nickname of Tarsie instead.
In our real world, people name their children after the months and seasons all the time. In my (under development) 5e FR campaign, I think it also makes a lot of sense that some children are named after the seasons, months, etc. Some children are named after ancient Faerunian lands. In fact, I have some home-brew NPCs that are also named after the Gods… especially the native Faerunian deities:
Lathandria (a girl named after Lathander)
Luruanne (yep, after the unicorn deity Lurue)
Chonda (female name taken from Chondath, one of the ancient ancestral human lands)
Alturian (boy name after the month of Alturiak, sounds like a very princely or knightly name as well)
Moonshae (feminine name after the Isles)
Eleasi (feminine name after the month Eleasis)
Cheston (boy named after the month of Ches)
I also understand that there may be Faerunian cultures where naming a child directly after a deity (with the exact spelling) would be taboo. I'm mindful of that possibility. |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2015 : 13:08:27
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quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Was the decision to name the governor after the month of April deliberate?
Deliberate. She is a ranger with a surname of Evergreen. So her parents were probably woodland hippy types with a love for nature and the outdoors. And as providence would have it…. she was born in the mid-spring month of Tarsakh. She probably is not fond of her birth name, since it is a guttural harsh-sounding name. So she adopted the variant nickname of Tarsie instead.
In our real world, people name their children after the months and seasons all the time. In my (under development) 5e FR campaign, I think it also makes a lot of sense that some children are named after the seasons, months, etc. Some children are named after ancient Faerunian lands. In fact, I have some home-brew NPCs that are also named after the Gods… especially the native Faerunian deities:
Lathandria (a girl named after Lathander)
Luruanne (yep, after the unicorn deity Lurue)
Chonda (female name taken from Chondath, one of the ancient ancestral human lands)
Alturian (boy name after the month of Alturiak, sounds like a very princely or knightly name as well)
Moonshae (feminine name after the Isles)
Eleasi (feminine name after the month Eleasis)
Cheston (boy named after the month of Ches)
I also understand that there may be Faerunian cultures where naming a child directly after a deity (with the exact spelling) would be taboo. I'm mindful of that possibility.
That is awesome. I was just toying with this idea the other day. I was making an NPC whose personality I'd unashamedly based off of one of my players, so I tried to make a Realmsian name based off his name meaning. Hadn't quite thought it through that far, though. Good work.  |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2015 : 04:52:58
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Edited the original town description. Decreased town population to 1500.
The inspiration for the town layout and "look and feel" (as it will be presented in my home campaign) is based on Russian Fort Ross (in California, yes the Russians colonized early California as well as Alaska etc) as well as the general style of the medieval Russian wooden fortification. I wanted a town that felt somewhat civilized, and yet it felt like it was located in the hinterlands, and the wooden palisade wall was the only thing that protected them from beasts and wild animals, bandits or native barbarians, etc. In this case, Amberton was a stone's throw from the wild untamed Cloakwood Forest.
Fort Ross pic:
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/85/60/21/8560212a15a35cd45ff4148033860426.jpg
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Edited by - moonbeast on 22 Jan 2016 01:47:34 |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2015 : 17:03:56
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If it is a meritocracy, how does the civil service exam system function?
That is all handled back in Baldur's Gate?
EDIT:
How do men obtain seats on the town council? By wealth? Hereditary privilege? Election by the citizens of the town? If the town is really a meritocracy, I would expect that the councilors gained their positions by scoring high marks on a civil service exam. This suggests a lot of bureaucracy in Amberton.
And opportunities for corruption if the exams are rigged, natch.
Do people have to travel to Baldur's Gate in order to take the tests?
What factor ensures that the council will choose someone based on "experience and merit" and not just pick someone who will serve the economic interests of the council members? What factor ensures that the rulers of Baldur's Gate don't prefer someone who serves their interests over other considerations?
Does the would be governor also have to pass a series of tests?
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
Edited by - combatmedic on 08 Dec 2015 17:30:43 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2015 : 17:57:43
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In my opinion, a meritocracy would result from an older and much more well-established city-state, and not just a small frontier town -- unless it was settled by folks fleeing corruption or persecution, and they explicitly set that up from the start.
Otherwise, I'd expect one of the oldest and wealthiest families to have assumed a leadership position -- perhaps a self-styled lord or a mayoral position that was originally hereditary, and now remains hereditary but with the approval of Baldur's Gate.
At least, that's my opinion. I just don't see a town of 1400 seeing a need for and creating a meritocracy. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2015 : 19:56:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
In my opinion, a meritocracy would result from an older and much more well-established city-state, and not just a small frontier town -- unless it was settled by folks fleeing corruption or persecution, and they explicitly set that up from the start.
Otherwise, I'd expect one of the oldest and wealthiest families to have assumed a leadership position -- perhaps a self-styled lord or a mayoral position that was originally hereditary, and now remains hereditary but with the approval of Baldur's Gate.
At least, that's my opinion. I just don't see a town of 1400 seeing a need for and creating a meritocracy.
Right, I tend to agree.
But he notes that this town is subject to Baldur's Gate, yes?
So maybe the meritocratic polity was imposed by the rulers of said city-state?
Juts to be clear: when you guys write 'meritocracy' I am reading that as something akin to the Mandarin system in historical China. Officials are appointed on the basis of performance in civil service exams.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2015 : 20:17:39
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I think of a meritocracy as not necessarily based on exams, but more on judgement of capability. Waterdeep, for example, is partially a meritocracy -- new Lords are nominated by existing Lords, based on their suitability and what they bring to the table.
As for this town, it depends largely on how the town came to be. Most towns start as one or two homes, then others grow up in the same area, and eventually you've got a town. Something like that, some sort of at least somewhat hereditary ruling position is the most likely government.
Even then, with 1400 people, you'd have a person with roughly mayoral capabilities, perhaps commanding a small militia/watch, as well. When the town becomes a protectorate of a largely city-state or nation, they would most like add some additional military capability (for protection, maintaining order, and keeping anyone from getting ideas about independence), and an adviser for the existing ruler. They might replace the existing government entirely, but that's not likely unless it's a hostile takeover.
Even if the town is wholly founded by the protecting nation, it's still more likely that they'd instill a chosen ruler and a bit of hierarchy under him or her. 1400 is just too small to need much more, and the local government would most likely be a smaller version of the parent government, instead of something different.
Again, that's my opinion. It's obviously trumped by the needs of the campaign and the DM's wants. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 08 Dec 2015 20:17:56 |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2015 : 21:31:41
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Waterdeep is an oligarchy.
That's what you just described. The small ruling class appoints its own replacement membership. |
YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2015 : 22:40:00
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quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
Waterdeep is an oligarchy.
That's what you just described. The small ruling class appoints its own replacement membership.
True, but selecting based on merit also makes it a meritocracy. It's also a cryptocracy, since the rulers are hidden. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2015 : 23:18:53
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Him, I think we have very different ideas about what meritocracy means. I don't see any merit being measured by any objective measure in the Waterdeep system, but persons being appointed to to high office based entirely on the will and opinions of the Lords. That is the opposite of a meritocratic system.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2015 : 23:39:58
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Meritocracy in no way guarantees good government. Mandarins can be corrupt and incompetent, after all.
And an oligarchy can do a good job at ruling.
So can an autocrat.
What's remarkable is that Waterdeep seems to have a whole set of honest and competent rulers. That is a bit boring, but I will buy it if the paladin Open Lord has been screening them. Maybe.
It's wildly improbable that the city has enjoyed rulership like this for a long time. The secrecy and unaccountability of the oligarchs really calls out for faction wars, secret tribunals condemning citizens to death or confiscating their estates, etc.
But I am drifting far off the thread topic. I may make a separate Lords of Waterdeep thread.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
Edited by - combatmedic on 09 Dec 2015 01:00:17 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2015 : 04:40:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
True, but selecting based on merit also makes it a meritocracy. It's also a cryptocracy, since the rulers are hidden.
Yes but so is Thay just not in the same way :-p |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2015 : 19:32:44
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quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
If it is a meritocracy, how does the civil service exam system function?
That is all handled back in Baldur's Gate?
EDIT:
How do men obtain seats on the town council? By wealth? Hereditary privilege? Election by the citizens of the town? If the town is really a meritocracy, I would expect that the councilors gained their positions by scoring high marks on a civil service exam. This suggests a lot of bureaucracy in Amberton.
Right, I admit that I didn't give the Meritocratic rule too much thought. My initial thought was that the Council selected the appointed town governor based on his/her experience and skill. Like any town, Amberton has unique needs and geographic situation. The current governor, for example, is deemed qualified to lead because she is an experienced Ranger (hunter/forester) …. and Amberton is within a stone's throw from an untamed woodland forest. That same forest provides Amberton with some of its lucrative resources (lumber, hides, furs, etc) but also is the source of its pain (rampaging Owlbears, packs of wolves, lycanthropes, mischievous fey and satyrs, etc).
The selection of the governor is meritocratic as it is based on (perceived) skill/experience and ability to lead. However, how the Council is selected…. that's the problem I have to resolve. It becomes much harder to explain the entire Town Council being chosen based on meritocratic system … as that would imply some form of objective and fair bureaucratic selection. I now realize that in a town with less than 1500 residents… that's quite hard to do. Bureaucracy might make sense in the great city of Baldur's Gate. It makes little sense in a small town with a woodland frontier-feeling location.
Perhaps Oligarchy might make more sense if the town Council ruled alongside with their selected governor?
Baldur's Gate is Amberton's protector, and hence Amberton is a recognized protectorate of the great city-state. That doesn't mean Baldur's Gate directly selects the governor or anyone in the town council. But in typical power-hungry fashion, the moment that Baldur's Gate made a written "pact" to serve as the protector of the small town, the Baldurian rulers also forced the town to accept a clause: that Baldur's Gate will be given the right to veto/examine/accept any individual selected as Amberton's "governor". At that instant, Amberton lost some of its autonomy. It traded some of its freedoms in exchange for being assured the protection of a very rich and powerful Sword Coast city-state.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2015 : 21:27:22
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Here's a possible way to spin it:
The town was originally settled by a handful of families, who assumed a kind of leadership position over newer families as more settlers arrived. Eventually, the original families formed a leadership council, electing one of their own as the mayor, likely with some sort of regular rotation of the position.
The council makes most of the decisions for the town, with the mayor being the face of the council, the leader of the militia/watch, and the person that makes decisions when something needs to happen NOW.
The council members are mostly family patriarchs, but they do select their mayor based on who they think will provide the most effective leadership.
When Baldur's Gate "took ownership" of the town, they demanded a couple of slots in the council, so they could influence selection of the mayor (perhaps even keeping folks they don't like from being elected) and have some say in the day-to-day running of the town.
This would allow the locals enough self-rule to keep them happy, but still make sure the interests of Baldur's Gate are a factor. It gives a kind of meritocratic rule, but one that retains plausibility given the size of the town. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2015 : 22:26:13
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RE the palisade
I like it. It makes sense given the nature of the threats to the settlement and the resources available locally. |
YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2016 : 01:46:07
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| Appreciate the input everyone, thanks. |
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Small town, wooden palisade defense?
