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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2015 :  23:28:12  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul

quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus

Hasbro would can the entire D&D line if all it did was lose money year after year. That's not a bluff, that's business.



D&D has never lost money except around 2nd edition.

3rd edition and up was never a loss.



No, but if everyone stopped buying everything, they would lose money.

And if you think that they'd not stop publishing FR stuff, ask yourself when the last time you saw new Mystara products. Or Ravenloft. Or Amazing Engine stuff.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  06:40:59  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
WotC is giving away portions of its Adventurer's League materials for free.

You can even play Lost Mine of Phandelver, Hoard of the Dragon Queen, Rise of Tiamat and Princes of the Apocalypse online--all adventures set in the Realms, mind.

See these links to AL play:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/104095669932028051654

https://www.facebook.com/groups/onlineadventureleague/

(tip of the hat to MerricB for providing these links)


Now I don't know how strong AL actually is--what the player numbers are, how many new-to-D&D-players it draws, etc.--but it appears to be doing fine.

All of this with just the 5E adventures and the 5E core rulebooks published; the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide came late to the party.

If there were a concerted effort to boycott the SCAG and it was successful, or if sales were low, then I think WotC would not publish a second book for the Realms.

Instead they'd continue releasing adventure paths and D&D Expeditions adventures--some of these can be obtained for free, too--and focus on continued sales of the one set of books that everyone needs: the core rulebooks.

I think WotC would take another stab at publishing a sourcebook, but it'd probably be for another campaign world.

Not buying the SCAG won't help the Realms' chances of seeing a detailed, lore-rich campaign guide.

If you want to see a product with more pages and more information, then do one or both of the following: buy the SCAG, and take to social media to tell WotC what you want (and try not to be a jerk when you make your voice heard).

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).

Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 01 Dec 2015 07:15:38
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  06:43:27  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus

I would love to see an appendix added to future releases that detail NPCs in the old 2E stat-block type (class, level, high stats etc.) then a paragraph or two about the person in question.

This would be a great addition to a Realms sourcebook.

It'd be **really** great if WotC hired me write some of those NPCs, too!

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  08:48:48  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message
Well I don't think any company is forever. If 5e fails then the ip might languish in limbo for a decade or even two. Eventually however Dnd will become retro once more and be revived under a new owner.

I don't buy what I don't like. I also don't buy things from companies that are not nice to their consumers (the PDF robbery of WoTC was when I stopped buying things from them).

I stopped buying in the hopes that something new and exciting will be reborn out of the ashes of the old. Rather than paying for a tired old mutated rehash of a product I didn't like (4e) that has been given a new coat of paint.

To each their own though. It is your money to spend and if you want to see more of the current product line up then continue to buy it. I don't think long established companies are renowned for taking risks and when they do (4e) they are just as likely to crash and burn as succeed. If WoTC sees this product line up as successful then that is the only kind of product they are ever likely to produce.

I'd much rather let it fail now and be reborn than watch it slowly fade into obscurity as the fan base is ignored and fractured over and over again.

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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1853 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  09:17:19  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

It'd be **really** great if WotC hired me write some of those NPCs, too!


I'll raise a mug to this!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  11:05:51  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Well I don't think any company is forever. If 5e fails then the ip might languish in limbo for a decade or even two. Eventually however Dnd will become retro once more and be revived under a new owner.

I don't buy what I don't like. I also don't buy things from companies that are not nice to their consumers (the PDF robbery of WoTC was when I stopped buying things from them).

I stopped buying in the hopes that something new and exciting will be reborn out of the ashes of the old. Rather than paying for a tired old mutated rehash of a product I didn't like (4e) that has been given a new coat of paint.

To each their own though. It is your money to spend and if you want to see more of the current product line up then continue to buy it. I don't think long established companies are renowned for taking risks and when they do (4e) they are just as likely to crash and burn as succeed. If WoTC sees this product line up as successful then that is the only kind of product they are ever likely to produce.

I'd much rather let it fail now and be reborn than watch it slowly fade into obscurity as the fan base is ignored and fractured over and over again.



Why would any company take a chance on a failed product line? If we let the Realms die under WotC, we'll not get something better from them later -- we'll never get more Realms material, period.

And they're trying to give you something better than they did with 4E right now. If you won't even look at that, how will you know if another product delivers what you want?

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  11:15:56  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message
Mech warrior died and was reborn under another company. So was shadowrun and star wars (weg). Dnd itself nearly perished with tsr and was bought by WoTC.

Hobby past times are often bought by former fans that got rich and want to see it continue, or by small time companies that are willing to take risks or just make small profits doing what they love (ie not trying to be the next world dominating corporation).

Nothing is forever, companies fold all the time, but if someone feels an idea can make money they will resurrect the idea many years down the line (fashion shows this trend repeatedly over the centuries and now films are showing revivals of old trends).

WoTC will fail at some point, Dnd and FR will survive if people continue to be devoted to it and at some point it will revive under another company.

I don't think WoTC are trying to sell me a product I want. I think they are trying to take me for a fool and sell me the 4e FR setting but with a bit of a face lift. I've looked at it and it's not mature or interesting enough for me, it's a popular culture game setting that will appeal to the masses with a bit of backwards compatibility for old fans.

Therefore I'm not buying it and I'll wait for the inevitable. If others like it then so be it, but I think failure is inevitable when a house is divided.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6641 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  12:00:07  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
After 28 years of FR sourcebooks, adventures and articles, the Realms is the most detailed RPG campaign setting in gaming history. If WotC pulled the plug tomorrow, the Realms would live on after a fashion through its dedicated fans and it's biggest trump card: Ed. In my particular opinion, the Realms' longevity isn't tied into 'official' support from WotC. Certainly not if it's future is represented by RSE adventures and one decent sourcebook every year. I guess it comes down to whether people are prepared to accept anything with FR content, no matter the quality, in the hope that the Realms will return to its halcyon days, or whether they decide that those halcyon days are a thing of the past and vote with their $$. After the (IMO) poor FR evolution that was the 4E release, I realized - perhaps not very humbly - that I could write and create for the Realms fantastically well without moving through the editions. A bit I suppose like Ed's gaming group who decided that the ToT didn't occur in their campaign. We all make our choices. And for our own personal reasons. WotC approach the Realms like the business they are, and quite rightly so. But in my view - grognard that I am - I don't feel the love for the Realms anymore. I think the love came from the designers and writers who graced the Realms over those 28 years and actually cared about it; over and above it simply being a paid writing gig. Ed, Jeff, Elaine, Julia, Steven, Eric, Paul and others did their part. Erin and Brian are still hanging in there - but people involved in the Realms who love the Realms; think Realms; every day - well, they're not on the payroll anymore. Shame really, but I suppose that times and the market have changed. I haven't. But thankfully, I don't need WotC to deliver the Realms to me anymore. My imagination does a good enough job these days. That and 28 years worth of products on my book shelves and PC.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  13:04:46  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Mech warrior died and was reborn under another company. So was shadowrun and star wars (weg). Dnd itself nearly perished with tsr and was bought by WoTC.

Hobby past times are often bought by former fans that got rich and want to see it continue, or by small time companies that are willing to take risks or just make small profits doing what they love (ie not trying to be the next world dominating corporation).

Nothing is forever, companies fold all the time, but if someone feels an idea can make money they will resurrect the idea many years down the line (fashion shows this trend repeatedly over the centuries and now films are showing revivals of old trends).

WoTC will fail at some point, Dnd and FR will survive if people continue to be devoted to it and at some point it will revive under another company.

I don't think WoTC are trying to sell me a product I want. I think they are trying to take me for a fool and sell me the 4e FR setting but with a bit of a face lift. I've looked at it and it's not mature or interesting enough for me, it's a popular culture game setting that will appeal to the masses with a bit of backwards compatibility for old fans.

Therefore I'm not buying it and I'll wait for the inevitable. If others like it then so be it, but I think failure is inevitable when a house is divided.



You're forgetting that WotC has never let go of an IP, and neither has Hasbro -- they simply sit on them. If the Realms fails, they'll sit on it and never let anyone else touch it.

A house divided does not make failure inevitable... But refusing to even look to see if you might like something is a failure. They could publish something built to your exact specs, and you'll never know because you can't get over your anger to even look.

You're dooming the Realms far more effectively than WotC.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  13:43:42  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message
Well even wizbro can't last forever.

I looked at 5e, I read the books, I just don't like them. The background story irks me and the time jump annoys me even more. I don't like it so I'm not buying it. The anger left me a while ago, I channeled it into creating my own stuff. I even asked WoTC if I could make something tailor made for me that I was guaranteed to like (and then sell it and give them some of the profits) but they said no (as I expected). So now I'm just waiting for them to fail.

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Eltheron
Senior Scribe

740 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  16:06:12  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Well even wizbro can't last forever.

I looked at 5e, I read the books, I just don't like them. The background story irks me and the time jump annoys me even more. I don't like it so I'm not buying it. The anger left me a while ago, I channeled it into creating my own stuff. I even asked WoTC if I could make something tailor made for me that I was guaranteed to like (and then sell it and give them some of the profits) but they said no (as I expected). So now I'm just waiting for them to fail.


I completely agree with you about the 4E-5E story, or really the lack thereof. It's better to just clip things off in the 1300s and write your own stuff from there.

But as far as WotC folding - even if it does, everything is still owned by Hasbro. This is a company that holds on tight to IPs. It was a profitable company during the great depression of the 1920s and 1930s. This company will outlast you, your children, and your grandchildren, and still hold on to the IPs it's collected.

If sales plummet for the Realms, it means almost nothing to Hasbro. At worst, they'll put the IP into limbo and revive it in 20 years as a retro product.

People are used to thinking like small companies - like TSR or even the original WotC. Pokemon changed things for D&D, and therefore also the Realms. WotC was noticed by a megacorporation (Hasbro), and everything changed.

WotC could be shut down today, and D&D put on the shelf, and still Hasbro would do what it needs to do in order to maintain control over the Realms IP. Corporations think differently than small or even large companies.

At best, we can hope that somehow, someday, someone will take over in a key position overseeing D&D's products, licenses, and contracts. Even then, they'd still need to produce products that sell extremely well to turn a profit that means something to the parent company, and that means it's unlikely we will ever see anything approaching the depth and detail of 2E products.

The moment Hasbro bought WotC, it was quite literally "game over" for anyone hoping to see big, detailed, super in-depth Realms products.

Hasbro and WotC might, possibly, perhaps, allow an allied company the chance to produce licensed content for the Realms. And I think that's the likely reason the EdVerse exists. But even so, a small startup licensed to do that would need to turn a profit - which is going to be VERY hard to do in the post-Pathfinder era.


"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer

Edited by - Eltheron on 01 Dec 2015 16:07:05
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
705 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  18:24:44  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Mech warrior died and was reborn under another company. So was shadowrun and star wars (weg). Dnd itself nearly perished with tsr and was bought by WoTC.

Hobby past times are often bought by former fans that got rich and want to see it continue, or by small time companies that are willing to take risks or just make small profits doing what they love (ie not trying to be the next world dominating corporation).

Nothing is forever, companies fold all the time, but if someone feels an idea can make money they will resurrect the idea many years down the line (fashion shows this trend repeatedly over the centuries and now films are showing revivals of old trends).

WoTC will fail at some point, Dnd and FR will survive if people continue to be devoted to it and at some point it will revive under another company.

I don't think WoTC are trying to sell me a product I want. I think they are trying to take me for a fool and sell me the 4e FR setting but with a bit of a face lift. I've looked at it and it's not mature or interesting enough for me, it's a popular culture game setting that will appeal to the masses with a bit of backwards compatibility for old fans.

Therefore I'm not buying it and I'll wait for the inevitable. If others like it then so be it, but I think failure is inevitable when a house is divided.



You're forgetting that WotC has never let go of an IP, and neither has Hasbro -- they simply sit on them. If the Realms fails, they'll sit on it and never let anyone else touch it.

A house divided does not make failure inevitable... But refusing to even look to see if you might like something is a failure. They could publish something built to your exact specs, and you'll never know because you can't get over your anger to even look.

You're dooming the Realms far more effectively than WotC.



Mmmmmm no. Common sense comes into play here. If you don't like something then you don't buy it, if enough people don't buy it then it sends a shockwave to the company telling them we don't like this we want something different.

Continuing to buy something just shows them you are happy with what they are doing and they will continue doing it. That's kind of a childish attitude to be quite honest. Kind of the old "well if you don't do it my way then I will take my ball home." "Off you go then bro!"

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe

USA
522 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  19:32:50  Show Profile Send moonbeast a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

Not buying the SCAG won't help the Realms' chances of seeing a detailed, lore-rich campaign guide.

If you want to see a product with more pages and more information, then do one or both of the following: buy the SCAG, and take to social media to tell WotC what you want (and try not to be a jerk when you make your voice heard).



My sentiments as well. I bought the SCAG, and generally pleased with it. Would I like to see a bigger more expanded FR book? Of course. Would I love to see a Cormyr/Dalelands book? Yes. But none of those books will ever have a chance of being published for 5E if the sales of SCAG are poor.

To the complainers, why not Tweet the WotC guys…. but don't be a jerk. Why not ask them if they would consider doing a Cormyr book? Or a Moonsea book? Or a Moonshae book? Or whatever other Realms regions you'd love to see covered. If enough people Tweet Brian Perkins or Mike Mearls the same sentiment over and over and over again (for example "When will we see a Cormyr/Dalelands AG?") — then it's likely to nudge WotC towards that product idea.
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  19:48:25  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
The argument that the Realms fan base is divided is a dead one.

Today's fan of the Realms came to the setting through 4E or 5E D&D, an RAS novel or games like The Neverwinter MMO. They play other games and the Realms isn't the center of their attention. If they want to dig into the Realms, they know what a PDF is and where to find them.

If everyone who still believes a divided fan base exists and considers themselves the aggrieved party decided not to purchase the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, I don't think it would harm WotC's estimated sales.


Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  19:49:01  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

Not buying the SCAG won't help the Realms' chances of seeing a detailed, lore-rich campaign guide.

If you want to see a product with more pages and more information, then do one or both of the following: buy the SCAG, and take to social media to tell WotC what you want (and try not to be a jerk when you make your voice heard).



My sentiments as well. I bought the SCAG, and generally pleased with it. Would I like to see a bigger more expanded FR book? Of course. Would I love to see a Cormyr/Dalelands book? Yes. But none of those books will ever have a chance of being published for 5E if the sales of SCAG are poor.

To the complainers, why not Tweet the WotC guys…. but don't be a jerk. Why not ask them if they would consider doing a Cormyr book? Or a Moonsea book? Or a Moonshae book? Or whatever other Realms regions you'd love to see covered. If enough people Tweet Brian Perkins or Mike Mearls the same sentiment over and over and over again (for example "When will we see a Cormyr/Dalelands AG?") — then it's likely to nudge WotC towards that product idea.



I've contacted their customer service multiple times and I've often taken their monthly survey to express my desire for a 5e FRCS, or for an explanation of the changes that the Sundering brought.

I've bought the SCAG, because I felt like giving them a shot (just like I did for the 5e PHB), and because I wanted to know the updated picture of the FR. However, if their next book comes in the same format, and with the same ''yeah, this is how the 1490s FR look like, and the explanation for most changes is: the Sundering did it'', I probably won't buy it.

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  20:07:25  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message
I actually contacted them with a Moonshaes sourcebook and they said no. I asked for an alternate product line that didn't include the spellplague. No. I offered to do everything myself (and even provided an example). No. Not that I believe my work is good enough to sell, but there was no entertaining of an alternative product (and it would seem I'm not the only one to ask). I even had to contact them several times asking for an answer.

I will just wait and see what happens. I'm not buying stuff I don't like. If WoTC and Hasbro outlast me then so be it.

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Mirtek
Senior Scribe

595 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  20:33:06  Show Profile Send Mirtek a Private Message
Yeah, Lucas (before selling to Disney) never wrote me back about my episode 7 script either. What a jerk
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe

Portugal
508 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  20:43:57  Show Profile Send Tanthalas a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I asked for an alternate product line that didn't include the spellplague.


And you were surprised when they said no to this?

After they lost a big part of their fanbase with the Spellplague you want them to lose another big chunk of it by reseting the setting back to the 3E era (hell, I see people demanding the 2E era back, why not go all the way back to there while we're at it), and throwing away a ton of great storylines.

If you truly want more Realms material that has to include its history. And like it or not, the Spellplague is part of the Realms.

Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage".
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  20:45:56  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message
Touchee. Of course I asked expecting the no and only did so on the off chance that they lost their mind and said yes. Nothing ventured nothing gained and all that.

But if Steven Spielberg had sent in the script would you still expect the blanket no. Not that I'm Steven Spielberg in this, but Eric Boyd is and he still received a no after he sent in not just a script but an entire finished film.

But that isn't really the point. If I don't like Episode 7, 8, or 9 then I wont buy novels set in this new version of the star wars universe. Likewise I don't like coffee so I don't buy it. I certainly wouldn't buy it in the hopes that they changed the taste to something I did like.

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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  20:46:30  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
reseting the setting back to the 3E era (hell, I see people demanding the 2E era back, why not go all the way back to there while we're at it), and throwing away a ton of great storylines.



They basically did that, though. We have got some sort of hybrid between 2e, 3e and 4e, with all the events that destroyed or killed stuff being reverted. They just did that in-universe, rather than saying ''we're kinda rebooting''. Those great stories have now little tangible results (save the one about Thay), and many have been discontinued...

In their place, we've got a further, thick layer of cheese on the FR metaplot.

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.

Edited by - Irennan on 01 Dec 2015 20:53:26
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe

Portugal
508 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  20:55:07  Show Profile Send Tanthalas a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
reseting the setting back to the 3E era (hell, I see people demanding the 2E era back, why not go all the way back to there while we're at it), and throwing away a ton of great storylines.



They basically did that, though. We have got some sort of hybrid between 2e, 3e and 4e, with all the events that destroyed or killed stuff being reverted. They just did that in-universe, rather than saying ''we're kinda rebooting''. Those great stories have now basically no tangible results (save the one about Thay), and many have been discontinued...



Except they do have tangible results. They still exist in the past of the setting.

There's a great difference between a setting moving on and events being made non-canon.

Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage".
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  20:59:00  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas

quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
reseting the setting back to the 3E era (hell, I see people demanding the 2E era back, why not go all the way back to there while we're at it), and throwing away a ton of great storylines.



They basically did that, though. We have got some sort of hybrid between 2e, 3e and 4e, with all the events that destroyed or killed stuff being reverted. They just did that in-universe, rather than saying ''we're kinda rebooting''. Those great stories have now basically no tangible results (save the one about Thay), and many have been discontinued...



Except they do have tangible results. They still exist in the past of the setting.

There's a great difference between a setting moving on and events being made non-canon.



This may be a matter of perspective, but I see little difference. From a practical standpoint, WotC is going to ignore them anyway (and even setting that aside, how many stories have been discontinued?), sometimes not even bothering to explain how their results have been reverted, beyond saying that Ao did it.

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe

Portugal
508 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  21:04:07  Show Profile Send Tanthalas a Private Message
WotC is going to ignore them anyway? Funny, because the few novels that are getting released still make references to the Spellplague.

That, and it's not like plenty of storylines from the 2E/3E era haven't been discontinued too. By your reasoning, those eras shouldn't matter either.


Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage".
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  21:14:25  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas

WotC is going to ignore them anyway? Funny, because the few novels that are getting released still make references to the Spellplague.


C'mon, you know what I mean. A mention of the Spellplague to say that its effects are getting/have been reverted hardly makes it relevant anymore (in fact, it is only/mostly is mentioned to say that it is no more). Besides, the Spellplague itself wasn't really a story, it was more of a plot device (like the Sundering) to rearrange the Realms as the designers saw fit. AFAIK, in novels, the event itself was the background for one of the books in the Empyrean Odyssey, but that's it.

quote:
That, and it's not like plenty of storylines from the 2E/3E era haven't been discontinued too. By your reasoning, those eras shouldn't matter either.


That was one of the complaints regarding the timejump/Spellplague, AFAIK (even if I didn't even play D&D at the time, so I might be wrong): many plots left ignored. Yes, they basically stopped being important to the setting for practical purposes, since they probably (and sadly) won't be picked up and developed.



Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.

Edited by - Irennan on 01 Dec 2015 21:15:23
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  21:17:06  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul


Mmmmmm no. Common sense comes into play here. If you don't like something then you don't buy it, if enough people don't buy it then it sends a shockwave to the company telling them we don't like this we want something different.



You are both correct and incorrect... Common sense does come into play, but common sense also indicates that you can't judge something without reasonable knowledge of it - it's like disliking a food you've never eaten.

Information is necessary to make informed decisions. Saying "this isn't the exact thing I want, so it's not even worth looking at" is not making an informed decision. Actually picking up the book and looking at it, judging it for what it is instead of dismissing it for what it isn't -- that's making an informed decision.

If someone reads the SCAG and decides it's not for them, fine, that's their call. Refusing to even look at it, and then judging it? No, that I have issue with.

I was as vehemently opposed to everything 4E as much as anyone, if not more so... I still read the books, to make sure I was making an informed decision. And though I wanted the Spellplague written out of existence, I still gave the SCAG a fair chance. And though it's not what I wanted and I have issues with some of what they did, I do think it's a step in the right direction.

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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
705 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  22:38:47  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul


Mmmmmm no. Common sense comes into play here. If you don't like something then you don't buy it, if enough people don't buy it then it sends a shockwave to the company telling them we don't like this we want something different.



You are both correct and incorrect... Common sense does come into play, but common sense also indicates that you can't judge something without reasonable knowledge of it - it's like disliking a food you've never eaten.

Information is necessary to make informed decisions. Saying "this isn't the exact thing I want, so it's not even worth looking at" is not making an informed decision. Actually picking up the book and looking at it, judging it for what it is instead of dismissing it for what it isn't -- that's making an informed decision.

If someone reads the SCAG and decides it's not for them, fine, that's their call. Refusing to even look at it, and then judging it? No, that I have issue with.

I was as vehemently opposed to everything 4E as much as anyone, if not more so... I still read the books, to make sure I was making an informed decision. And though I wanted the Spellplague written out of existence, I still gave the SCAG a fair chance. And though it's not what I wanted and I have issues with some of what they did, I do think it's a step in the right direction.



I have SCAG, I just didn't pay for it. So my opinion comes from having the product. It is a poor reflection on the earlier stuff that came out and I am not going to settle for this mediocre shite.

I would rather have nothing than crap.

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  22:47:05  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
Curious: how did you get ahold of the book, Shadowsoul?

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
705 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  22:49:43  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

Curious: how did you get ahold of the book, Shadowsoul?



Gift from a friend.

Are you implying something?

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  22:56:38  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
My first thought was that you found a pirated copy online.

I'm surprised anyone would have the nerve to purchase anything Realms-related for you that had to do with the current edition of the game.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
705 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2015 :  23:17:25  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

My first thought was that you found a pirated copy online.

I'm surprised anyone would have the nerve to purchase anything Realms-related for you that had to do with the current edition of the game.



I'm surprised you had the nerve to imply that I would do that.

Just so we are clear. You don't know me or anything about me. Please don't assume you know my situation or the people I have around me.


“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.

Edited by - Shadowsoul on 01 Dec 2015 23:20:05
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