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 Shar, Wells of Darkness, Shattered Night
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Demzer
Senior Scribe

873 Posts

Posted - 23 Nov 2015 :  17:06:57  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hello fellow scribes!

My campaign will probably see my players traveling to and interacting with the 73rd Layer of the Abyss, with as-of-yet unpredictable results. Since the campaign features a recurring Sharran NPC (sometimes ally, sometimes enemy, with a complicated past with two players) and part of my overarching plot has seen Ahazu advance at great speed toward his goal of ascension-through-absorption (of souls) thanks to carefree demons, i'm starting to think about possible points of contact between the Layer, Ahazu, Shar, the misterious Shattered Night, Entropy and what have you.

For those unfamiliar with the topic, some interesting reading material can be found in:
- Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss
- Dungeon 148, Savage Tide: Wells of Darkness
- Dragon 357, Savage Tidings: Gaze Into the Abyss

Throw whatever whacky idea your mind can conjure at this thread and let's see what happens!

Just for starters, the following is a work in progress:
- One way i can spin this is that Ahazu somehow connected the Abyss to one of the Primes that Shar has already consumed, thus Shattered Night is already the domain of Shar and Ahazu has striken some kind of bargain with her to exploit the situation. Of course Shar and a scheming demon lord will have thought of countless ways to twist their agreement this way and that and the end results are probably nothing like any of the two anticipated, thus requiring some mortal action to nudge the situation one way or another;
- Another way to see things is that Shar has nothing to do with the Layer origin, but, upon acquiring knowledge of it (while chatting with Beshaba or Umberlee, because she knows every little secret of everyone, when Arlgolcheir was destroyed and sent here, when Astaroth was destroyed and sent here), wants privileged access to the Shattered Night and it's properties (inescapable prison of soul-consuming void? I want two!) thus jumping on the opportunity to place her agent in the Layer (to take control of it, of Ahazu or simply to install a "backdoor" for ease of use, she's a greater goddess after all);

Some points i'm still pondering about are:
- what happens if Ahazu succeeds in ascending to godhood? What of the Layer or of the (important) prisoners?
- what happens if, through a chain-reaction of Layer-Shaking-Events, Shattered Night is (temporarily) breached and the prisoners are set free?
- what happens if, through the same (or another) chain-reaction of LSEs, Shattered Night is unleashed on the Layer and starts seeping through the rest of the Abyss?

Thanks everyone who whishes to contribute!

Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
955 Posts

Posted - 24 Nov 2015 :  23:01:10  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very interesting, and another idea, you could identify Shadevari as Obyriths, or children of Pale Night at the very least. Obyriths and Shadevari are pretty similar, both being Lovecraftian, extremelly ancient evils. If you belive Shadevari are somewhat connected to Shar becoming evil, and an Omnicidal Maniac, this draws paralells with the situation between Obyriths, and how they corrupted Tharizdun. Especially that both Tharizdun and Shar are gods of Entropy, both want to consume everything...
Although I guess like Tharizdun, Shar is not controlled by Shadevari/Obyriths, but seems in a better relationship with them, being alies. This would also justify Shar's ties to the Abyss.

Another interesting bit about Obyriths in 4E, is that in the 4E Demonomicon, they predate the current Multiverse.

[Edit]

Also, returning to Shadow Creatures, and the possibility Shadevari are Pale Night's first children, as all of Pale Night's children have direct or metaphorical connection to Shadows. Rhyxali, Queen of Shadows, sister of Graz'zt and another of Pale Night's children, is actually the ruler of Shadow Fiends across the multiverse.
So it's possible Shattered Night was Pale Night's original plane, or that she created it, if we take the 4E canon that Obyrith's predate the Abyss by far. It being "shattered", is connected to Pale Night abandoning it
Or that the Shattered Night is part of the Multivere from which the Obyriths came, and which they ruined, which would also account for the "shattered status".

Another possibility is that the Shattered Night was the plane most connected to Shadeveri. Shadevari could be, not only Pale Nights Children, but also the missing link between Obyrths and Tanar'ri. When the Tanar'ri overtook the Abyss, they created the Wells of Darkness within the Shattered Night, to imprison their protypes(Shadevari). Shar latter realeased the Shadevari.

Edited by - Baltas on 25 Nov 2015 02:43:56
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Demzer
Senior Scribe

873 Posts

Posted - 25 Nov 2015 :  10:46:09  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah, the Shadevari!

Well it may be tricky to link everything without going against canon but what if:
- the Shadevari were part of a brand/clan/family/whatever of obyriths inhabiting the 73rd Layer known as Shattered Night;
- one (or more) Shadevari were consorts/bedtime partners of Pale Night, thus resulting in the birth of Rhyxali, Lupercio and maybe Graz'zt (Vucarik and Zzyczesiya have not much to do with shadows and even Graz'zt is kind of a stretch);
- the Shadevari were more interested in stalking Primes than living in the Abyss, thus they cared so little about their original Layer they pretty much abandoned it;
- before the Queen of Chaos and the Obyriths defeat at the Fields of Pesh, the enterpresing tanar'ri "lord" Ahazu discovers the abandoned 73rd Layer and starts messing with its properties, leading to the creation of the Wells of Darkness;
- meanwhile the Shadevari are happily bringing shadow, death and destruction on various Primes, on some of them allying with forces of evil with similar goals, like Shar;
- Azuth bursts into the scene banishing the Shadevari back to their native plane, but things are very different in the Abyss, Shattered Night is almost inaccessible and the Wells of Darkness are operating, Ahazu the Seizer is sovereing and Azuth has to set a key to the freedom of the Shadevari, like all other prisoners of the Layer, thus the Shadowstar is created;
- fast forward, the Shadowstar reappears on Toril and, through help from Shar, the Shadowking (Verraketh or later Caledan) is able to bring aspects of the Shadovari out of their prison;

In this light, Shar would have a lot of reasons to try and worm her way into the Layer, to get in contact and maybe free her allies or maybe just feed on them and their shadow/darkness/evil essence (they failed multiple times and proved too weak for the task, but they are still powerful planar entities worth devouring/absorbing). In this context Ahazu is the jailer appointed by Azuth and Shar is trying for a prison-break.

I'm wondering if Ahazu would release his prisoners once ascended, they were useful baits to get planar travel on the Layer (and sacrifices going straight to his soul-count just to speak with them), but once ascended he probably has no need for them, thus maybe trying to free and overpower/susbume those still alive.

Also ... Azuth Ahazu Azuth Ahazu Azuth Ahazu ... try saying that fast enough ... maybe it's a coincidence ...

Edited by - Demzer on 25 Nov 2015 11:15:13
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
955 Posts

Posted - 25 Nov 2015 :  13:35:53  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great take on my Shadevari-Obyrith idea/theory.
Although I think Pale Night could be also the proteginior/mother of Shadevari, as she's well Night, specifically Pale Night is based on the Night from John Milton's Paradise Lost. Night along with her husband Chaos in Paradise Lost ruled once an Abyss filled with monsters, like Demogorgon and Orcus.

quote:

Or Spirit of the nethermost Abyss
Might in that noise reside, of whom to ask
Which way the neerest coast of darkness lyes
Bordering on light; when strait behold the Throne
Of Chaos, and his dark Pavilion spread
Wide on the wasteful Deep; with him Enthron'd
Sat Sable-vested Night, eldest of things,
The consort of his Reign; and by them stood
Orcus and Ades, and the dreaded name
Of Demogorgon



Still, Shadevari still could be among the fathers of the rest of her offspring. Ancient proteginior entities disturbingly often couple with their offspring. Gaea mated with her children Pontus and Ouranos, and in Paradise Lost itself, Lucifer mated with his somewhat daughter Sin, who then gives birth to their child "Death".

Ahazu And Azuth being connected is a fascinating idea, especially that we don't have many risen fiends.
Or maybe Ahazu is a cast away, chaotic part of Azuth, when he ascended into godhood? Ahazu could be a part of Azuth that was corupted by Shar an/or the Shadow Weave, and with Mystra's help, Azuth could be able to separate the corruption from himself.
Alternatelly, getting rid himself of Shar's corruption, was the final feat that that allowed Azuth to be granted godhood by Mystra, as he proved himself to have a unshakable will.
But the corruption that Azuth cast away from himself, became the demon Ahazu. Ahazu "inherting" Azuth's strong will, wasn't just Shar's slave, and had his own ambitions.
Not to mention, Shar tried to do something similar with Halaster, and he also fought back.

Edited by - Baltas on 25 Nov 2015 19:05:46
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2015 :  22:38:51  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wouldn't link Azuth and Ahazu. Ahazu is not lawful neutral and Azuth is. Ahazu is entrapped as a vestige for millenia, whereas Azuth has been a god for the last Millenium (minus the short span where he was entrapped by Asmodeus). Plus, they don't even seem to fulfill anything near the same roles.

However, Azuth did entrap the Shadevari in a place that looked like a realm of shadows. He used the "shadowstar" which was a key forged of Shadows by Gond to entrap them. He then hurled this "shadowstar" into what is referred to as "the cosmos" and "the void" in separate entries. We also see that the Shadevari are not able to fully interact with the world and instead are sending over "avatars" of themselves. What if the Shadevari were entrapped in Shattered Night and like Ahazu, they've become Vestiges. You could then have it that the Shadevari are available for pact magic. You could design entirely new Vestiges all around these 13 Shadevari.

In fact, I don't know if anyone else feels this way.... but there's this whole linkage between Tenebrous and Orcus that's always felt forced with me. Tenebrous doesn't actually "feel" like Orcus to me (Tenebrous is gaunt and dark and secretive... Orcus is fat and loud). He's this shadowy being. We also know that Orcus once invaded Shattered Knight and slew all of Ahazu's worshippers. What if Tenebrous is actually a Shadevari, and he was somehow allowed to escape whenever Orcus was killed by Kiaransalee and his name erased from everywhere. What if Tenebrous was actually searching for the wand of Orcus to permanently bind Orcus in the place where Vestiges go, not to free him, and it was his plan to use a ritual to seize Orcus' godly body in the astral as his own to permanently free himself from the void ..... but Orcus' own follower Quah-Nomag freed Orcus first. Or what if Orcus was actually using pact magic to enhance his own power and he was allowing Tenebrous to "ride" him in order to have the abilities of a god (thus Tenebrous was actually the the means by which Orcus granted divine magic to his priests), and it was in coming to the Well of Darkness that Orcus actually made this connection. If you go with this idea, you can involve the whole Tenebrous cabal of shadowcasters plus the binders who serve Tenebrous and worship him as a divine entity, then throw in some warlocks who maybe have a pact with him, etc....

It may be that Shar wants to get a Karsite binder (because Karsites can't cast arcane or divine magic, but pact magic is supernatural in origin), a neutral evil fighter/binder/blackguard/Knight of the Sacred Seal, a binder/wizard/anima mage, and a Sharran cleric/warlock/eldritch disciple into the Wells of Darkness with a Vestige Phylactery in order to enact some ritual involving the shadowstar to free one of the Shadevari. The blackguard being a Knight of the Sacred Seal is bound to a single Vestige, so you could make it that he regularly binds himself to this Shadevari vestige.

It should also be noted that Gargauth, the former devil lord turned God of Corruption, imprisoned Astaroth (a Tanar'ri prince) in the Wells of Darkness. You could turn this in many directions. For instance, maybe he's told Shar about the Shadevari entrapped. Maybe he told Azuth about the Wells of Darkness in the first place, in return for aid in becoming a god.


*********below from Curse of the Shadow Mage*********

"For eons, the shadevari prowled the face of Toril, wreaking havoc and seeking ways to shatter the creation of the gods. Their only desire was to find a way to break the world and meld light and dark into shadowy chaos once more. Finally, the god Azuth, the High One, found a way to banish the shadevari. Beyond the edges of the world, he created the illusion of a realm of shadows, and the shade vari were drawn to the image. Once within, the shade vari realized that the illusion in truth masked a prison. Too late they discovered the trick, and Azuth locked the prison with a key forged of shadows by the god Gond, Wonderbringer. Then, with all his might, Azuth hurled the key into the cosmos, sending it spinning among stars so that it would be lost forever."

"Something tells me that this cheerful little bedtime story isn't over yet," Ferret said, scratching his chin.

"Something tells you rightly," Morhion replied. "For a long age, the shadevari remained sealed in their prison. In time they were forgotten. However, as fate would have it, one day the key that Azuth threw into the void entered the world once more."

"The Shadowstar," Mari breathed in amazement.

Morhion nodded. "Indeed. What seemed a shooting star to the wandering minstrel Verraketh was in truth the key Azuth had used to imprison the shadevari. The Shadowstar gave the shadevari a small window on the world. Though still imprisoned, through it they were able to exert some influence. As the medallion transformed Verraketh into the Shadowking, the shadevari spoke to him, making him their slave, until at last he vowed that, when he was powerful enough, he would use the Shadowstar to free the shadevari from their prison. Then the thirteen would seek to destroy Toril once and for all. Fortunately, Talek Talembar defeated his father, Verraketh, before this could come to pass, so the shadevari remained sealed in their prison beyond the edges of the world."

"Wait a minute," Ferret protested. "We killed one shade-var in the Fields of the Dead two years ago. Now three more are after us. That means at least four of the shade-var have been freed from their prison. And while they're nasty creatures—and I'll grant you, I'm no expert on theol-gy they really don't strike me as godlike beings."

"You are correct, Ferret," Morhion agreed. Dusk had fallen. Firelight played mysteriously across the mage's angular visage. "However, from what I have learned, I would conjecture that the creatures that have pursued us now and in the past are merely avatars of the shade-var-limited, corporeal effigies conjured by the Shadow-star to work the will of the shadevari on Toril. They are shadows of shadows, if you will. The real shadevari are not corporeal at all, but are beings of pure chaos. And they are vastly more powerful than the creatures we have faced."

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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