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HALO_Project
Acolyte
13 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Nov 2015 : 18:21:04
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First a little background: I am a DM and I run my game in the realms alongside another DM. We use 3.5 rules and ignore most of the pre-generated content that came after Forgotten Realms was updated to 3.5. We want to see the world shaped entirely by the players in it and not by what authors and whatnot have decided should happen (to at least some degree, some of it we write into our adventures but this works for our group). We run as two separate DM's but what happens in his campaigns affect my world and vice versa and it is something that, while is a little more work for us, our players and we truly enjoy and it makes a powerful and moldable world that is all our own.
Now circumstances have arisen that require a new race. It is the blending of a draconic being and a powerful fey bloodline. The creature would be a little more fey than dragon because they are not actually a half-dragon/half-fey. The goal is to make it interesting and yet actually playable. We used Savage Species and the monster manual but... So what I'm asking is really does this sound good to you and what CR and Level Adjustment should it have?
((tl;dr : 3.5 realms have new race need to know if it is balanced and what it's challenge rating and level adjustment should be))
Type: Fey
Subtype: Element Dependent on draconic parentage
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 feet
Abilities: +2 Str, +2 Cha, -2 Con
Triats: Low-Light Vision,
Darkvision 60 feet,
Energy Resist 5 (type is same as draconic parentage, if dragon has no elemental immunity no Energy Resist is gained)
Nymph's Charm- +1 save DC to their Enchantment spells and effects
Immunity to Magical Sleep Effects
+2 saves versus Paralysis Effects
Damage Reduction 2/Cold Iron
Skill Bonuses: +2 Listen, +2 Search, +2 Spot
Languages: Common, Sylvan, Draconic, Auran, Ignan, Terran, Aquan, Elven
Favored Class: Undecided and open to suggestions
We are flexible on this as we want to see the race as a viable option for players. This race is the race of some of the children of characters in the game and we don't want the Lvl Adj to be too high but we want it be a fair representation of what the children are. Any help and suggestions of better abilities (more fitting and lower Lvl Adj) would be most welcome. And a good idea of what Lvl Adj the race, as presented, would be is also welcome.
Thank you in advance.
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Edited by - HALO_Project on 24 Nov 2015 12:51:08
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4427 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2015 : 02:16:47
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I'd probably make the race LA+2. Two +2 ability score bumps, low-light and darkvision, resistance 5, possible SLA, immunity to sleep, DR for a pretty uncommon material....LA+2 is probably a bit generous.
Actually, looking at the additional bonus to Skills, saves against a very nasty effect, +1 to Enchantment spells (equivalent to a free Feat) it's more like a LA+3. |
Edited by - Diffan on 22 Nov 2015 06:54:52 |
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Kyrel
Learned Scribe
151 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2015 : 22:26:11
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I have to agree with diffan on this. Given all the various bonuses, I'd be calling it a LA+3, and be honest I'd considder +4, when you look at some of the other canon races and their LA adjustments. You have a LOT of different bonuses put into a single race.
If you want to reduce the LA, I'd considder something like this in stead:
Type: Fey
Subtype: Element Dependent on draconic parentage
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 feet
Abilities: +2 Str, +2 Cha
Traits: Low-Light Vision
Energy Resist 5 (type is same as draconic parentage, if dragon has no elemental immunity no Energy Resist is gained)
+2 save vs. Enchantment spells and effects
Damage Reduction 1/Cold Iron
Skill Bonuses: +2 Listen, +2 Spot
Languages: Common, Sylvan, Draconic, Auran, Ignan, Terran, Aquan, Elven
Favored Class: Dragon Shaman of the parent dragon type perhaps?
LA+1, maybe +2 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2015 : 01:10:37
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| favored class: dragonfire adept |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2015 : 01:17:03
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Why is the DC so high?
Assuming this character has a Cha-based class, he has a possible Charisma of 36 (18 + 5 inherent + 5 levels + 2 racial + 6 enhancement), with +13 to the modifier. That's a DC of 44 for charm person.
A cleric has a base Will save of + 12, with a Wis of 34 and a cloak of resistance that's +29. The cleric has a 25% chance of making his save. The average meatshield is going to be much worse. |
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HALO_Project
Acolyte
13 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2015 : 01:51:06
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Hmm I mistyped that, it is supposed to be one half their HD. (DC = 10 + 1/2HD + Cha mod) I'll have to correct that.
We also discussed making the DR bypassable by Cold Iron or Magic making it much easier to bypass. It's not that I'm hung up on DR, it is that I have yet to find a fey that doesn't have it so it feels wrong not to have it at least a little. Maybe DR 1/Cold Iron or Magic?
What if I lower the skill bonuses to +1?
If anyone can think of better ways to represent the base races that would also be welcome. What we did was looked at all the different dragons and fey and wrote down all the things that each type had in common within it's own type (dryads with pixies with nymphs etc and red with gold with black etc) and then we compared the dragons to the fey and tried to find a happy medium.
I personally think that if one plays the version with Nymph's Charm it gets +1 to the set LA (if it is LA +1 with that ability it becomes LA +2 and so on) and that it is something that not all of them possess.
We didn't give them a negative ability because dragons nor fey really have a negative ability. What if we gave them the downside of -2 saves vs attacks of the element their draconic parentage is weak to (fire parent gets -2 to cold effects and spells and so on)? Some dragons don't have an elemental weakness, that's true but most do. Or if someone can think of another downside that makes sense with the parent races I'd welcome that. |
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe
USA
483 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2015 : 15:26:32
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quote:
Originally posted by HALO_Project
Or if someone can think of another downside that makes sense with the parent races I'd welcome that.
Maybe consider giving them a -2 to Constitution to balance things out. Yes I know draconic beings are quite hardy, but you said this creation favored more of its fey lineage, which I've always viewed as somewhat light and flimsy creatures. Or if you don't like that reasoning, the slightly lower Con could be the result of a general instability introduced from such an odd an incongruent set of bloodlines. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4427 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 00:36:53
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Agreed, a -2 Con helps.
I'd also suggest losing the ability to cast Charm Person. I didn't feel it was an ability that relates to what the race is all about. |
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HALO_Project
Acolyte
13 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 02:13:27
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Okay we've chatted about it, my fellow DM and I, and we agree that the Charm Person effect is unnecessary and the -2 Con does feel right. I've made the changes at the top. How does it look now?
What if we made the DR 1/Cold Iron or Magic? And make it a +1 to Listen, Search, Spot, Move Silently and Hide instead of +2? Does that make much difference? Or maybe have the player pick 2 and add +2 to each when creating the character (of course once chosen they can't be changed)? Could that be a thing?
And thank you guys for all the help, it really means a lot to us. I knew posting it here would be a good idea. You guys are really a great community. ^_^
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Edited by - HALO_Project on 24 Nov 2015 02:20:27 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4427 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 04:44:13
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For the DR, I'd go either 2/Cold Iron or 5/magic.
For the Skills, I'd go with Listen +2, Search +2, & Spot +2 and leave out Hide/Move Silently.
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 09:09:30
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It's the whole "race" how?
As to mechanics, defining a bloodline (per Unearthed Arcana, whether ready or custom variant) would do, IMO. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4427 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 11:30:47
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
It's the whole "race" how?
As to mechanics, defining a bloodline (per Unearthed Arcana, whether ready or custom variant) would do, IMO.
That's certainly one route to consider, however I personally never saw the mechanics play out well. Taking an instant power dip in early levels is often better in the long haul compared to spreading these benefits over 20 levels (21, 22, or 23 depending on bloodline strength).
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HALO_Project
Acolyte
13 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 12:55:31
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Okay I've discussed it with my fellow DM and implemented more of the suggested changes. How is it looking now? Honestly I'm liking it much better, it's feeling a lot more balanced and it still feels like what we were going for, it isn't losing the important parts.
We considered the Bloodline thing but honestly decided against it for the reasons sited by Diffan. I've tried it personally, as have my fellow DM and another player and we all came to the same conclusion; it just isn't preferable to simply taking the dip in the beginning and then going from there. At least that's how our group feels. Thanks, though. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4427 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 13:04:21
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| Definitely much better. Still probably a LA +2 but within the usual area of other LA +2 Races. The fact that it's fey makes it immune to spells like Charm Person and other Humanoid-based spells. |
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HALO_Project
Acolyte
13 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 20:06:34
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| I agree with your assessment Diffan. LA+2 is more what we were looking for. And I think that the race has kept all of the flavor and lost much of the fluff. Sometimes it takes a new perspective (or five). We knew it wasn't right but we couldn't decide the best way to fix it. The input found here was incredibly helpful (and still welcome if others have further thoughts or suggestions). Thank you all very much. |
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Topic |
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Requesting help with a new PC race
