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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Nov 2015 : 15:35:24
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I'm starting this topic because I'm lazy. I'd like to have a quick and easy list to look through of the various noble titles or military ranks used by the various countries in the realms. Therefore, as a personal request, please don't fill this with lengthy discussions of why we should or shouldn't have these. If this has been posted before, please feel free to point me to the link.
As an example of what I'm looking for:
In Thay:
Zulkir - Heads of the various schools of magic, as well a members of the ruling council of Thay
Tharchion - A regional authority overseeing the administrative needs for the Zulkirs
Autharch - a subordinate to a Tharchion controlling a portion of the Tharchion's region. Often certain autharchs also control certain aspects of the regional rulership (i.e. one may control the slave trade, one may track merchants, another may track agriculture, etc...)
Daeron / Daeronness - a member of Thayan nobility
In Mulmaster:
High Blade - ruler
Zor/Zora - a member of Mulmasterian nobility
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2015 : 00:27:15
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I came up with noble titles for Impiltur (in Damaran) a while ago. I'll dig them up and post them here in a bit. I assume you've seen the military ranks in Power of Faerun?
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2015 : 01:18:19
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From the Campaign Guide for Murder in Baldur's Gate:
Ranks of The Watch (Lowest to Highest)
Shield
Saramar
Vigilar
Sword
Havilar
Commandal
Highsword
Oversar
Ranks of the Flaming Fist (low to high):
Fist
Gauntlet
Manip
Flame
Blaze
Major
Marshal |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2015 : 14:58:06
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I came up with noble titles for Impiltur (in Damaran) a while ago. I'll dig them up and post them here in a bit. I assume you've seen the military ranks in Power of Faerun?
-- George Krashos
Hmmm, no, I had noted the ranks in Power of Faerun. When I get home, if I remember I'll have to copy them into the thread. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2015 : 06:16:51
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With the re-establishment of Impiltur, the Heltharn ruling family of the kingdom occupies the top tier of the nobility. After that there are several ranks of noble titles as set out below.
Title (in common) - Title (in Damaran)
King/Queen - Riar/Riara
Prince/Princess - Thilas/Thilassa
Duke/Duchess - Hertar/Hertala
Marquess/Marchioness - Vaerar/Vaerala
Count/Countess - Serdar/Serdassa
Baron/Baroness - Edlar/Edlassa
Knight - Orn (pl. Ornar)
Regent - Ranal
Consort - Add prefix “Al”
Queen Regent - Riaranal
Lord/Lady - Dar/Darla
Only the direct succession of the Heltharn family (i.e. now only Sambryl and Imbrar II from the line of Velimbrar, son of Imphras II) use the titles of king/queen and prince/princess.
The remainder of the Heltharn royal family use the duke/duchess title exclusively for members of the Lords of Imphras II and “heads” of the various Heltharn lines (i.e. the patriarchs/matriarchs of those families descended from that monarch).
The most senior (in terms of age and/or influence) noble families in Impiltur use the title marquess/marchioness on ceremonial or formal occasions. Their holdings are known generally as “marches” and depending on the size of the area can come to denote a region of the realm. The families that hold such a title are noted as the “old guard” families.
The less senior noble families use the title count/countess on ceremonial or formal occasions. Their holdings are known generally as “counties” and depending on the size of the area can come to denote a region of the realm.
Those individuals that are raised to the nobility but not granted a hereditary title to be passed on to their progeny use the title baron/baroness on ceremonial or formal occasions. The term “barony” is used for their holdings but very rarely used as a geographic descriptor for Impiltur.
Knighthoods in Impiltur are granted to individuals and are not hereditary. If an individual with an existing noble title that is not a baronetcy (i.e. a marquess or count) is made a knight, then they are differentiated by use of the title “orn” [“saer” in common] instead of their normal noble title. Non-noble individuals granted a knighthood are known as “loyal knights” [“elorn”/”elornar” (pl.)] but commonly use the “orn” title save on ceremonial occasions or for specific legal reasons.
For all spouses and children of the nobility and spouses of loyal knights, the term of address is simply lord/lady.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 14 Nov 2015 06:21:13 |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2015 : 06:51:31
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| The old hardback tome Forgotten Realms Adventures lists the military ranks for several cities. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2015 : 15:29:21
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Waterdeep: City of Splendors has a couple of ranks in there for the Guard/Watch
Watch Ranks
Grand Civilar
Mage Civilar
Senior Armsmaster
Ward Civilar
Senior Civilar
Civilar
Armar
Watchman/Watchwoman
Senior Skulk
Senior Watch-Wizard
I thought I remembered a more laid out hierarchy somewhere but I can't find it. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2015 : 15:13:57
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
With the re-establishment of Impiltur, the Heltharn ruling family of the kingdom occupies the top tier of the nobility. After that there are several ranks of noble titles as set out below.
Title (in common) - Title (in Damaran)
King/Queen - Riar/Riara
Prince/Princess - Thilas/Thilassa
Duke/Duchess - Hertar/Hertala
Marquess/Marchioness - Vaerar/Vaerala
Count/Countess - Serdar/Serdassa
Baron/Baroness - Edlar/Edlassa
Knight - Orn (pl. Ornar)
Regent - Ranal
Consort - Add prefix “Al”
Queen Regent - Riaranal
Lord/Lady - Dar/Darla
Only the direct succession of the Heltharn family (i.e. now only Sambryl and Imbrar II from the line of Velimbrar, son of Imphras II) use the titles of king/queen and prince/princess.
The remainder of the Heltharn royal family use the duke/duchess title exclusively for members of the Lords of Imphras II and “heads” of the various Heltharn lines (i.e. the patriarchs/matriarchs of those families descended from that monarch).
The most senior (in terms of age and/or influence) noble families in Impiltur use the title marquess/marchioness on ceremonial or formal occasions. Their holdings are known generally as “marches” and depending on the size of the area can come to denote a region of the realm. The families that hold such a title are noted as the “old guard” families.
The less senior noble families use the title count/countess on ceremonial or formal occasions. Their holdings are known generally as “counties” and depending on the size of the area can come to denote a region of the realm.
Those individuals that are raised to the nobility but not granted a hereditary title to be passed on to their progeny use the title baron/baroness on ceremonial or formal occasions. The term “barony” is used for their holdings but very rarely used as a geographic descriptor for Impiltur.
Knighthoods in Impiltur are granted to individuals and are not hereditary. If an individual with an existing noble title that is not a baronetcy (i.e. a marquess or count) is made a knight, then they are differentiated by use of the title “orn” [“saer” in common] instead of their normal noble title. Non-noble individuals granted a knighthood are known as “loyal knights” [“elorn”/”elornar” (pl.)] but commonly use the “orn” title save on ceremonial occasions or for specific legal reasons.
For all spouses and children of the nobility and spouses of loyal knights, the term of address is simply lord/lady.
-- George Krashos
Thank you George, more for the explanations of the titles though. So, Hertar/Hertala being essentially of royal blood, but not immediately in line for the throne who keep the big picture of ruling the realm, but not necessarily the minutiae. They keep an eye out on the lesser nobility for the Riar. There's probably one Hertar/Hertala for each major city of Impiltur (and purely guessing from memory there's about 6 such). So, the Vaerar/Vaerala and Serdar/Serdassa are the working nobility who probably rule over 3-8 small towns (so there's probably about 20 of each throughout the kingdom if we were to say there's about 200 small towns outside of the 6 big ones?), and the Edlar/Edlassa are the equivalents of the town mayors or some functional piece of the government (such as the baron of the royal ranch where Impiltur's warhorses near Lyrabar are raised, or the baron who oversees the construction of the Impilturian navy). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2015 : 15:23:52
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Saw some more in the sword coast adventurer's guide
Baldur's Gate
Grand Duke - nominal head of the council of four that rules Baldur's Gate
Duke - one of the other members of the council of four
Parliament of Peers - a grouping of about 50 nobility/Patriars who are allowed to advise the Council of Four (i.e. the buffer between the Dukes and the common folk).
Patriar - a term for the nobility, though not sure if its an actual title or simply another way to say "nobles" |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2015 : 15:34:40
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Pharohs, title belonging to the mortal God Kings of Mulhorond.
SCAG indicates that those related to the Gods, aka the nobility, have Zia or Sia before the name of the Gods as a family name.
So if your related to Ra you'd be (first name) Siara or (first name) Ziara.
The example is given for Tiefling so Assamir and human nobles might have a different prefix. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2015 : 05:16:51
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Thank you George, more for the explanations of the titles though. So, Hertar/Hertala being essentially of royal blood, but not immediately in line for the throne who keep the big picture of ruling the realm, but not necessarily the minutiae. They keep an eye out on the lesser nobility for the Riar. There's probably one Hertar/Hertala for each major city of Impiltur (and purely guessing from memory there's about 6 such). So, the Vaerar/Vaerala and Serdar/Serdassa are the working nobility who probably rule over 3-8 small towns (so there's probably about 20 of each throughout the kingdom if we were to say there's about 200 small towns outside of the 6 big ones?), and the Edlar/Edlassa are the equivalents of the town mayors or some functional piece of the government (such as the baron of the royal ranch where Impiltur's warhorses near Lyrabar are raised, or the baron who oversees the construction of the Impilturian navy).
Just to clarify, Impiltur is not a feudal realm. The ownership of all lands by the Crown and their selected nobles was abandoned with the fall of the kingdom in the Fiend Wars. To attract population in the aftermath of that horrendous affair, King Sarshel granted land to non-nobles and new nobles alike and much of the Uplands was available to be claimed by those simply strong enough to hold it - as long as they gave due deference to the throne. Individuals such as Arbarras "the Lord of the Greenfields" and the self-styled "Highmaster" Lamanter Bowthorn found out swiftly that the kingdom of Impiltur was still just that, and their attempts to dominate the Uplands and carve out quasi-realms of their own with "Lyrabar far away" were met with swift action by the Elethlims.
The references to "marches", "counties" and "baronies" reflects some old world terminology but describe only the actual lands owned by that particular noble family. No nobles rule anything unless they are also a Royal Constable or Royal Herald of the realm. Occasionally, senior nobles can be pressed into such service at the behest of the Lords of Imphras II (for example if an area is declared to be under "daggerbond" [our equivalent of "martial law"]) but this is rare. They often function as advisers to the local authorities however.
Local government as we know it doesn't really exist in Impiltur as there are roving Constables and Heralds who do a set circuit (i.e. the village of Harland in the foothills of the Earthspurs, southeast of Tower Ithfell has a visit from the Royal Constable every month or so, usually with a Royal Herald in tow - the husband and wife team Gelimbrar "the Darksword" Olim and Alarna Olim are one such roving Constable and Herald combination, whose area encompasses the villages from the shores of Bluefang Water north and west to the mountains near the High Pass into Damara) and check in to settlements to ensure that the peace is being kept and disputes dealt with. Most settlements do have an elder or head man/woman who people naturally defer to if a decision affecting the community needs to be made (i.e. assisting with harvests, dealing with blight or animal sickness quarantines, fighting bandits/raiders, etc.) but they wield no legal authority. However the smarter roving Royal Constables and Heralds have a network of such elders/ head people they communicate with regularly so as not to cause any friction or personality clashes.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2015 : 12:31:38
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Thank you George, more for the explanations of the titles though. So, Hertar/Hertala being essentially of royal blood, but not immediately in line for the throne who keep the big picture of ruling the realm, but not necessarily the minutiae. They keep an eye out on the lesser nobility for the Riar. There's probably one Hertar/Hertala for each major city of Impiltur (and purely guessing from memory there's about 6 such). So, the Vaerar/Vaerala and Serdar/Serdassa are the working nobility who probably rule over 3-8 small towns (so there's probably about 20 of each throughout the kingdom if we were to say there's about 200 small towns outside of the 6 big ones?), and the Edlar/Edlassa are the equivalents of the town mayors or some functional piece of the government (such as the baron of the royal ranch where Impiltur's warhorses near Lyrabar are raised, or the baron who oversees the construction of the Impilturian navy).
Just to clarify, Impiltur is not a feudal realm. The ownership of all lands by the Crown and their selected nobles was abandoned with the fall of the kingdom in the Fiend Wars. To attract population in the aftermath of that horrendous affair, King Sarshel granted land to non-nobles and new nobles alike and much of the Uplands was available to be claimed by those simply strong enough to hold it - as long as they gave due deference to the throne. Individuals such as Arbarras "the Lord of the Greenfields" and the self-styled "Highmaster" Lamanter Bowthorn found out swiftly that the kingdom of Impiltur was still just that, and their attempts to dominate the Uplands and carve out quasi-realms of their own with "Lyrabar far away" were met with swift action by the Elethlims.
The references to "marches", "counties" and "baronies" reflects some old world terminology but describe only the actual lands owned by that particular noble family. No nobles rule anything unless they are also a Royal Constable or Royal Herald of the realm. Occasionally, senior nobles can be pressed into such service at the behest of the Lords of Imphras II (for example if an area is declared to be under "daggerbond" [our equivalent of "martial law"]) but this is rare. They often function as advisers to the local authorities however.
Local government as we know it doesn't really exist in Impiltur as there are roving Constables and Heralds who do a set circuit (i.e. the village of Harland in the foothills of the Earthspurs, southeast of Tower Ithfell has a visit from the Royal Constable every month or so, usually with a Royal Herald in tow - the husband and wife team Gelimbrar "the Darksword" Olim and Alarna Olim are one such roving Constable and Herald combination, whose area encompasses the villages from the shores of Bluefang Water north and west to the mountains near the High Pass into Damara) and check in to settlements to ensure that the peace is being kept and disputes dealt with. Most settlements do have an elder or head man/woman who people naturally defer to if a decision affecting the community needs to be made (i.e. assisting with harvests, dealing with blight or animal sickness quarantines, fighting bandits/raiders, etc.) but they wield no legal authority. However the smarter roving Royal Constables and Heralds have a network of such elders/ head people they communicate with regularly so as not to cause any friction or personality clashes.
-- George Krashos
So, what I'm hearing is people are using titles that used to mean something prior to the spellplague, but nowadays its just gloss and there's nothing that would prevent a Serdar starting to call themselves a Vaerar except that it would be snickered at by the other nobles. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2015 : 21:58:32
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Post-Spellplague it would be a free for all, no doubt. But I'm not that interested in Impiltur in the 1480s DR.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 28 Nov 2015 22:57:14 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2015 : 22:56:54
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Is there a "not" missing from that statement or do my eyes deceive me
 Correct. Damn phone. Although you never know ...
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Topic |
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Noble Titles & Militaryranks in the Realms
