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 The use of Saer (Sir) in the FR
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Gurgle Gobblespit
Acolyte

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2015 :  05:30:47  Show Profile Send Gurgle Gobblespit a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I read that among the humans of the Realms, the word "Saer" is used (akin to real-world Sir).

I'm curious, did the word Saer originate from a specific human ethnic group? Was it Chondathan? I understand that Chondathan culture is very widespread, especially Chondathan (human) names as listed in 5e DMG section for choosing human names.


And I'm also curious which came first…. George RR Martin's use of "Ser" in his Game of Thrones novels, or Greenwood's use of Saer in the Realms?

xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1853 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2015 :  20:43:17  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gurgle Gobblespit

I read that among the humans of the Realms, the word "Saer" is used (akin to real-world Sir).


If you (or anyone else) are looking for a specific source on this: 3e campaign setting book, pg 82. I dunno if it's been mentioned in earlier sources.


quote:
Originally posted by Gurgle Gobblespit

I'm curious, did the word Saer originate from a specific human ethnic group? Was it Chondathan? I understand that Chondathan culture is very widespread, especially Chondathan (human) names as listed in 5e DMG section for choosing human names.


This might be a good question to ask Ed directly, unless another scribe knows that it's been answered already. I think Chondathan is a good guess.


quote:
Originally posted by Gurgle Gobblespit

And I'm also curious which came first…. George RR Martin's use of "Ser" in his Game of Thrones novels, or Greenwood's use of Saer in the Realms?


Ed would probably know this too, but... A Game of Thrones was published in 1996. The 3e FR hardcover was published in 2001. However, both sirs Greenwood and Martin have been writing since the 60s, so...
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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2015 :  21:03:20  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Given that there is a settlement named Saerloon in Sembia which was i think primarily settled by people from the Vilhon Reach region (which I believe is where the Chondathan people originate), I'd say Chondathan is a good point of origin.

Saerloon was also named after someone named Saer which is obviously supported by the Chondathan named, lets just hope that Loon does not translate literally from English.

As for Saer and Ser, and Sir. It reminds me a lot of Caesar and Tsar and other derivatives that denote royalty or nobility across the old world, so it is entirely possible that it originated historically rather than with either Ed or George

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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1853 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2015 :  21:15:57  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Saerloon was also named after someone named Saer which is obviously supported by the Chondathan named, lets just hope that Loon does not translate literally from English.


Good points all. I believe, based on Saerlunan still being an acceptable way of saying "somebody from Saerloon" (FR Adventures pg 73), that Saerloon was/is Saerlun much like Daerlun -- the change in spelling could have followed the simplified pronunciation brought on by thousands of tourists and merchants in Saerloon's ports every day.

It's just my interpretation. I think the elitist old families identify as Saerlunan and curl their lips in disgust at all "those filthy foreigners with their simple minds and club-like tongues, unable to grasp even the obvious nuances in language."

It just feels properly Saerlunan, right?
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Jeremy Grenemyer
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USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2015 :  22:06:03  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gurgle Gobblespit

I'm curious, did the word Saer originate from a specific human ethnic group? Was it Chondathan? I understand that Chondathan culture is very widespread, especially Chondathan (human) names as listed in 5e DMG section for choosing human names.
Saer is "Sir" in Chondathan. See "Crowns and Mantles: The Ranks and Titles of Cormyr", by Brian Cortijo, in Dragon 407.

As that article states, most Cormyreans do speak Chondathan, so they'd readily understand the use of saer, as well as other words like Astrel (King), Tahar (Knight) and Arauna (Lady).

quote:
Originally posted by Gurgle Gobblespit

And I'm also curious which came first…. George RR Martin's use of "Ser" in his Game of Thrones novels, or Greenwood's use of Saer in the Realms?

I don't know when Martin started thinking up the stories and characters that became "Game of Thrones", but we know for a fact that the Realms dates back to the '60s, so I suspect Saer came first.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).

Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 12 Oct 2015 22:06:49
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Gurgle Gobblespit
Acolyte

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2015 :  00:19:29  Show Profile Send Gurgle Gobblespit a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks to all for the replies. And thanks Jeremy for that Dragon 407 reference. I just found I can buy a PDF copy of that issue from dndclassics.com

Issue 407 seems to focus on tons of Cormyr background material.
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Calmar
Acolyte

49 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2015 :  13:39:31  Show Profile Send Calmar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In any case, it's not Greenwood stealing from Martin, or vice versa. Both borrow very closely from a real-world word.
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3131 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2015 :  15:00:07  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Has Saer ever been used in a Realms novel??

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Jeremy Grenemyer
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USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2015 :  15:21:06  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, several times.

Bury Elminster Deep, Elminster Mist Die, Swords of Dragonfire, Blackstaff, and others.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Faraer
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3308 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2015 :  02:22:19  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
See this thread too.
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3131 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2015 :  02:26:00  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

Yes, several times.

Bury Elminster Deep, Elminster Mist Die, Swords of Dragonfire, Blackstaff, and others.



Ah, haven't read those ones yet.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2

Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede
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