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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Sep 2015 : 04:53:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
As for Myth Drannor, turning it into a (somewhat) settled city robbed the setting of a lot of its potential. It turned one of the best "dungeons" of the Realms into just another city. Certainly, there is potential in a civilized and populated city, but the Realms has many other such locales -- ruins full of fiends, lost magical goodies, and fields of twisted magic are not as common.
Well, that's one way to look at it.
For me, I'm so tired of elves always being in some form of "retreat" in settings. That's why the reclamation of Myth Drannor was so great. Now, it's just another boring dungeon to me.
I can't entirely disagree. To me, the main issue is that WotC mishandled the Reclamation. If I'd been running the show, the Crusade would have simply claimed a chunk of the city, and there would have been decades -- if not centuries -- of work to do to reclaim the rest of it. Civilized Myth Drannor would have been something of a fortified outpost in some still dangerous ruins. This approach would have increased the potential playability of Myth Drannor (even lower level groups would have a nearby safe haven, and could work their way up from "partially reclaimed" areas to "we have no idea what's there" stuff), but kept the story elements and forward development of the setting going on. |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2015 : 04:53:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Just because a demon army is on the horizon is no guarantee the Chosen will show up.
Only because real world author barriers prevent it. If there was any realism to the Realms, the Chosen absolutely would get involved.
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In what instance has Mystra commanded that all of her Chosen are to race across the Realms to intercept every last extraplanar threat in existence?
Perhaps not every single one, but it's regular theme: stop the Malaugrym, close errant portals, shut down dangerous gates, defend the secret massive portal network, make sure the Weave is maintained (to prevent thin walls between worlds), etc.
If you're going to deny that Mystra and her Chosen don't concern themselves with the above, you just haven't been paying attention.
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The Chosen tend not to disobey, but they do disagree with each other as to how to achieve an end, they will even fight each other if they can't find common ground, their goals sometimes conflict, and their methods and motives oft put them against the authorities.
All of which never end up being a real issue for them. They always end up agreeing with Elminster, do what he says is best, they have some Keystone Kops chases, and the authorities always forgive them (with a little finger waggling).
quote:
Anyway, the Chosen are not now, and have never been, of one mind, and they are certainly not a unified fighting force whose job it is to waylay serious threats to the Realms.
Sure, sure. Never ever have (many) people compared them to Marvel superhero teams. 
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2015 : 04:54:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
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Yes, the shadovar were overused, but at least their victories made them a credible threat. Now they're just a joke like all the loser evil factions scattered arund the Realms.
Can you point to anything in the lore that shows this to be true?
I mean, Shade just fell, so let's see what the survivors do before we write them off.
Telamont used all his capable arcanists to try absorbing the mythal, and Larloch laid them all to waste. It was a truly epic moment that was just ruined when Larloch got blasted to smithereens shortly after. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2015 : 06:30:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
If there was any realism to the Realms, the Chosen absolutely would get involved.
"Any realism to the Realms"? That doesn't make any sense. I think the word or phrase you're looking for is "consistency" or even "internal consistency."
It looks to me like you're making the same basic argument a whole lot of people have made down the years. It goes something like this, "If TSR/WotC were doing their jobs right, then X would happen and Y would not," where "right" just happens to be how the person making the argument thinks things should be done.
I.e., substituting opinion for fact, and pillorying those in charge accordingly.
"Author barriers" don't exist here (do they even exist at all?). This demon business isn't confined to one novel written by Salvatore, it's also a lengthy adventure and more, backed up by a lot of press.
So if you're going to argue the Chosen would show up, doesn't it follow they ought to appear in the adventure too?
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
Perhaps not every single one, but it's regular theme: stop the Malaugrym, close errant portals, shut down dangerous gates, defend the secret massive portal network, make sure the Weave is maintained (to prevent thin walls between worlds), etc.
Yes, and sometimes these themes overlap with events in other books that don't feature the Chosen of Mystra, or any Chosen of any god. And there are other problems, real nasty ones, that other heroes confront and face, that could very well equate to bad news for the Realms.
The Chosen don't cover the whole Realms. They aren't omniscient. For a lot of things that happen I think it's fair to say they just don't care.
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
If you're going to deny that Mystra and her Chosen don't concern themselves with the above, you just haven't been paying attention.
I haven't done anything of the sort.
Look, this isn't an either/or scenario. There is simply no such thing as an "If X happens then the Chosen will always do Y," in the Realms.
Let's look at how things get going: Gromph casts a spell that brings all the demon lords into the Underdark. Now if the Chosen are going to get involved, doesn't it follow they'd gang up on Gromph and prevent him from casting a spell that Mystra surely forsaw? Wouldn't Mystra would outright prevent Gromph from completing his magic?
By your logic, yes, one of these thing should happen. But that's not how the Chosen work, and it hasn't been since the Srinshee or Larloch and any of Mystril's Chosen stood aside while Karsus went and ruined everything.
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
All of which never end up being a real issue for them.
"Real issue" is vague.
Anyway, I've seen cases where Chosen agreed to cooperate after trying hard to gang up on Elminster and put him down, just as I've seen Chosen ride Elminster's mind, repeatedly correcting him and admonishing him. The Blackstaff was never one to always agree with Elminster, and it was his plans and interpretation of future events that put other Chosen on a collision course with the Old Mage after the Blue Fire ravaged the Realms.
Your summary doesn't appear, to me, to fit the Realms as it is presented.
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
Sure, sure. Never ever have (many) people compared them to Marvel superhero teams.
Why should anyone treat as truth a meme repeated ad nauseam on the internet?
I can certainly understand how a reader might reach the conclusion that the Chosen of Mystra are like unto super heroes. It's a legitimate (albeit subjective) point of view that TSRs treatment of the Chosen, along with WotC's early treatment, tended to reinforce.
But a careful reading of the source material puts the lie to the super hero claim.
EDIT: I want to be clear. I am not saying the Chosen would never show up to tackle the problem of Orcus and Friends rampaging through the Underdark below the Savage North and remaking it in their demonic image.
What I am saying is that it's not a given that the Chosen would show up in this scenario, whether individually or en masse. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 04 Sep 2015 06:41:38 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2015 : 06:32:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
Telamont used all his capable arcanists to try absorbing the mythal, and Larloch laid them all to waste. It was a truly epic moment that was just ruined when Larloch got blasted to smithereens shortly after.
I was giddy just because Larloch was in the book.  |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2015 : 10:01:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
I'm sorry Mr.Greenwood for saying this but this story only had one outcome to begin with and anyone with a pair of eyes could see it a mile away. I'm really tired of the endless success when it comes to Elminster and the Chosen.
Finally, someone have said that! And even found who is to blame. (whistling innocently)
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
I don't mind El being a Chosen, and I don't mind him being powerful. Yet, I don't get tired of him, I just don't read Elminster books if I'm not in the mood for Elminster saves the world stories.
I get that there's pretty much nothing else new out there.
That's the right idea, citizen! I didn't read Pasternak either. 
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
I used to enjoy keeping with the canon of the Realms but not anymore. Also, the bad thing is that what happens in the novels affects future products and stuff like this just rubs me the wrong way.
There is canon? I thought from 4e on, continuity is pretty much nonexistent.
quote:
I don't see why Elminster, Telemont, The Srinshee, and Larloch couldn't have had a stalemate.
And they kind of did... strange, isn't it?
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Larloch and Telamont are not stupid individuals, but I hate it when writers make them do stupid things in order for the good guys to win the day.
Uh-huh. Those writers are always like this, with strange uniformity. And look what covers they draw for their books, too.
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Also, that just shifted the problem: now their flavor of the month villain is Lolth, as she keeps plotting and plotting, even after having been defeated two times, having lost resources and so on, she is up to a new ''grand plan'' yet again...
"Now"?!
Lolth is the Universal Fallback Villain, no matter how stupid her involvement may look in any particular case. For The Evulz!
After the Demonweave second-generation copycat, of all things? "Lolth is a spider! and spiders weave webs - weave, get it? harharhar, we are SO FUNNY and SUBTLE!"
And the reason is obvious: Drizztlight. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2015 : 13:17:25
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Why is there the persisting view that Mystra's Chosen are the world police of the Realms? Power groups don't operate like that in the RW, so why should they in this fantasy world with just as many nuances and shades of gray as ours?
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2015 : 14:18:36
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Why is there the persisting view that Mystra's Chosen are the world police of the Realms? Power groups don't operate like that in the RW, so why should they in this fantasy world with just as many nuances and shades of gray as ours?
-- George Krashos
I infact have a house rule to explain this in my FR campaigns
Chosen be they Mystra or any deities are to give up their world interests when they ascend and take on the mantle of chosen. They are intended to spread the word of the god/goddess and advance there Domains. This means for Chosen of Mystra they should be funding arcane schools, taking apprentices, creating magic items and protecting there deity from the other deities who plot to take the magic portfolio and mortals who try and do the same (Im looking at you Karsus.)
Now inorder to get around this restriction (imposed by AO) Chosen like Alustrial, Elminster and Blackstaff out source there interence to adventurers or to established orgnization like the Harpers, Moonstars etc (this may well be the reason why Alustrial put in such a minimal effort in dealing Obould many arrows as if she fought Obould it would be a fight between to chosen Grummsh and Mystra (two deities who portfolio wise arent enemies and have no conflict)
As for dropping Shade Im going to disagree I think in this case the Chosen of Mystra would have every right to hunt down and destroy Shade and infact anyone who worships Shar (and for that matter Cyric) are the Mortal and Immortal enemies of Mystra her chosen and her indeed her clergy and followers. In any case its not the end of the shades as they have another floating city that to my knowledge hasnt been destroyed.
Assuming the FR deities are still tied to the concept of the more followers you have the more powerful you are then Id say both Cyric and Shar should have been demoted to Lesser or Demi gods by the time of 5th edition. If its widely known that Shar and Cyric killed Mystra and caused the Spellplague then I would say theres probably been a quite nasty Inquisition/Crusade against the followers and clergy of Cyric and Shar. Anywhere where those deities arent controling the region there should be people hunting there followers down. Ironically enough Everyone from Bane to Mystra from Sune to Bhaal would be in on this Crusade .
Ive persoanlly toyed around with the idea an event where a Latherite Crusade gets into The Sharran Temple of Old Night in Calimport casts an epic spell that turns the structure into Glass steel and then casts a Amaunators (Lathanders) Eternal sun over the Temple alter thus bathing the temple in Permeant daylight where not a single shadow can exist in the whole temple complex |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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BenN
Senior Scribe
Japan
382 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2015 : 14:32:23
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Why is there the persisting view that Mystra's Chosen are the world police of the Realms? Power groups don't operate like that in the RW, so why should they in this fantasy world with just as many nuances and shades of gray as ours?
-- George Krashos
In The Sorceror, book 3 of the RoTAW series, Khelben explains to Galaeron why the group of powerful Chosen just let a caravan of innocents die in a dragon attack:
quote:
"The Chosen cannot save everyone on Toril." His tone was as anguished as it was resentful, as though it pained him to state this obvious fact. He waved a hand in the direction of the screaming caravanners and continued, "You chose, elf. Those few, or the thousands in Evereska and the dozens of thousands across the rest of Faerun who will perish if we reveal ourselves and your plan fails."
In other words, it's a question of priorities, and triage. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2015 : 14:42:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I infact have a house rule to explain this in my FR campaigns
Chosen be they Mystra or any deities are to give up their world interests when they ascend and take on the mantle of chosen. They are intended to spread the word of the god/goddess and advance there Domains. This means for Chosen of Mystra they should be funding arcane schools, taking apprentices, creating magic items and protecting there deity from the other deities who plot to take the magic portfolio and mortals who try and do the same (Im looking at you Karsus.)
They should also preserve and nurture magic and those who advance it, including the life of magical beings. Like when in ''Silverfall'' Dove explains to the priestesses of Eilistraee why she interested in preserving drow lives. I really like that angle. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 04 Sep 2015 14:43:19 |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2015 : 15:48:11
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| Don't forget that Elminster sacrificed himself in order to close that rift in Hell in order to keep the legions of Hell from entering Faerun and causing havoc. This shows that he does care. Imagine 'the' demon lords of the Abyss entering the Prime all at once. Doesn't matter where they appear because they could easily make their way to the surface and cause untold damage. Remember, this is supposed to be an accident so having all these demon lords appear is throwing the balance out of sorts. There should be high level creatures who notice this and plan for action. Also, don't forget what Zuggtmoy is after. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2015 : 15:50:56
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| I really wish they would stop with the whole 'everyone wants to control the Weave' plots. Just allow Lolth to have access to the magic portfolio for drow, Corellon has one, and let Shar have one for Shadow Magic. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2015 : 17:29:13
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| It's not how I would change things, Shade should have remained, weakened and out of Shar's control. I'd only change the Bedine. Myth Drannor was perfect for adventurers before the reclamation, the elves could have been just a ''point of light'' in the ruins, in place of Lathanderites. |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2015 : 14:13:20
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| I've seen many references to people discussing the Chosen exist to prevent Mystra from becoming more poweerful than Ao. Was this ever stated anywhere? To my recollection, they exist to prevent Mystra from becoming an overgod but nowhere did it suggest she would be a match for Ao. She's already the first among equals so to speak, but if she rose even more to power, she would be able to run roughshod over the entire pantheon which appears to be what Ao is trying to avoid. It doesn't strike me that he's simply trying to keep her down to retain his primacy and I don't remember reading anything to that effect. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2015 : 14:24:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Veritas
I've seen many references to people discussing the Chosen exist to prevent Mystra from becoming more poweerful than Ao. Was this ever stated anywhere? To my recollection, they exist to prevent Mystra from becoming an overgod but nowhere did it suggest she would be a match for Ao. She's already the first among equals so to speak, but if she rose even more to power, she would be able to run roughshod over the entire pantheon which appears to be what Ao is trying to avoid. It doesn't strike me that he's simply trying to keep her down to retain his primacy and I don't remember reading anything to that effect.
Their original function was to keep Mystra from destroying herself. Basically, being magic itself, being the Weave part of Mystra's essence, the Lady of Mysteries has to hold within herself way more power than any other being in Toril (especially since --IIRC-- the Weave, according to Ed, is a sort of reflection of the normal energy -i.e heat, movement and so on- contained in the world, refined by Mystra in an ''ordinate'' structure).
If Mystra held the whole magic of Toril within her being, she (and the Weave with her) would collapse and cause destruction around the world. So she has to put a part of herself (her silver fire) into mortals, and she cannot take the energy from them, nor order them around: she will try to make them her faithful, but many can and did turn their back on her.
This was explained by Ed himself on the FR secreteriat website (which is currently down, though). |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2015 : 15:42:34
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That is exactly what I was thinking, and in Spellstorm, Ed took it a bit further and made the Mystra as overgod statement. My question is where all the posters who indicated that Mystra would become more powerful than Ao were getting it from. I don't recall any source that stated, or even implied that.
Edit: And thanks for that excellent recap on the nature of Mystra and the Weave. |
Edited by - Veritas on 07 Sep 2015 15:43:05 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2015 : 15:57:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Veritas
That is exactly what I was thinking, and in Spellstorm, Ed took it a bit further and made the Mystra as overgod statement. My question is where all the posters who indicated that Mystra would become more powerful than Ao were getting it from. I don't recall any source that stated, or even implied that.
Edit: And thanks for that excellent recap on the nature of Mystra and the Weave.
You're very welcome. I'm not aware of any source that points out that Mystra would become more powerful than, or as powerfu as, Ao, were she to gain her chosen's silver fire back. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 07 Sep 2015 15:58:35 |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2015 : 16:17:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Veritas
That is exactly what I was thinking, and in Spellstorm, Ed took it a bit further and made the Mystra as overgod statement. My question is where all the posters who indicated that Mystra would become more powerful than Ao were getting it from. I don't recall any source that stated, or even implied that.
Edit: And thanks for that excellent recap on the nature of Mystra and the Weave.
You're very welcome. I'm not aware of any source that points out that Mystra would become more powerful than, or as powerfu as, Ao, were she to gain her chosen's silver fire back.
From Spellstorm, pg 273 in the Google Play Ebook:
"The Chosen of Mystra held a share of her power, so that the goddess of the Art, in this world so alive with magic, wouldn't become the Overgod herself, the only deity. Other gods might trust their "Chosen Ones" because they endowed them with all power and could snatch it away again at their divine pleasure ... but the Chosen of Mystra could defy their goddess, because they held part of her within themselves. The silver fire." |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2015 : 16:19:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Veritas
That is exactly what I was thinking, and in Spellstorm, Ed took it a bit further and made the Mystra as overgod statement. My question is where all the posters who indicated that Mystra would become more powerful than Ao were getting it from. I don't recall any source that stated, or even implied that.
Edit: And thanks for that excellent recap on the nature of Mystra and the Weave.
You're very welcome. I'm not aware of any source that points out that Mystra would become more powerful than, or as powerfu as, Ao, were she to gain her chosen's silver fire back.
From Spellstorm, pg 273 in the Google Play Ebook:
"The Chosen of Mystra held a share of her power, so that the goddess of the Art, in this world so alive with magic, wouldn't become the Overgod herself, the only deity. Other gods might trust their "Chosen Ones" because they endowed them with all power and could snatch it away again at their divine pleasure ... but the Chosen of Mystra could defy their goddess, because they held part of her within themselves. The silver fire."
Yes, I'm aware, but ''Overgod'' is a category of beings with varied power. Veritas was asking for a source pointing that Mystra would become more powerful than, or as powerful as, Ao specifically. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2015 : 16:24:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Yes, I'm aware, but ''Overgod'' is a category of beings with varied power. Veritas was asking for a source pointing that Mystra would become more powerful than, or as powerful as, Ao specifically.
Gotcha. My misunderstanding. But the text goes on to say that Mystra would be the only deity. Doesn't that imply that she'd replace even Ao? Ao is a god, the most powerful one in Toril. If Mystra became the only deity, wouldn't that mean she's replacing or rising above Ao? |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
Edited by - Delwa on 07 Sep 2015 16:25:23 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2015 : 16:27:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Yes, I'm aware, but ''Overgod'' is a category of beings with varied power. Veritas was asking for a source pointing that Mystra would become more powerful than, or as powerful as, Ao specifically.
Gotcha. My misunderstanding. But the text goes on to say that Mystra would be the only deity. Doesn't that imply that she'd replace even Ao? Ao is a god, the most powerful one in Toril. If Mystra became the only deity, wouldn't that mean she's replacing or rising above Ao?
Hm, now that you made me think about that, that quote should imply just that. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2015 : 17:46:54
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| Thanks guys for pulling up the source. When I read the book, I didn't walk come out with that implication but I can see now how it can be read that way. When Ed starts responding to the Keep, I may ask if that was his intended reading of the line. Of course the person saying the line is at best an unreliable narrator so we don't know if it could work out that way. |
Edited by - Veritas on 07 Sep 2015 17:47:14 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2015 : 21:02:28
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The choice Mystra faces is whether to spread out her power and achieve a balance of sorts, or to hoard all the power of magic and become a tyrant by default.
The Goddess does not just share her power with mortal Chisen, she shares magic with all the other deities. If she kept all the power to herself, the other gods would be subservient to her will, their every act of magic, and that of their mortal worshippers, dependent on her consent.
I don't think Mystra as Tyrant would qualify her as an Overgod, but she could surely claim that title and rule over all the other deities. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2015 : 23:41:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
The choice Mystra faces is whether to spread out her power and achieve a balance of sorts, or to hoard all the power of magic and become a tyrant by default.
IIRC, it's not a choice for Mystra but rather a requirement of AO that she shares her power (not only with her Chosen, but also with the other gods of magic- Azuth, Savras, Velsharoon, etc).
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 03:32:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
The choice Mystra faces is whether to spread out her power and achieve a balance of sorts, or to hoard all the power of magic and become a tyrant by default.
The Goddess does not just share her power with mortal Chisen, she shares magic with all the other deities. If she kept all the power to herself, the other gods would be subservient to her will, their every act of magic, and that of their mortal worshippers, dependent on her consent.
I don't think Mystra as Tyrant would qualify her as an Overgod, but she could surely claim that title and rule over all the other deities.
Actually its more a case of she CANT withold magic with other deities
Mystra (Midnight) pulled Cyrics magic using rights in one of the novels and was forced by AO to give it back. Now on the other hand with Cyric and Shar (although Shar probably wouldnt bother as she has the Shadow weave) killing MYstra and attacking her portfolio the reborn Mystra may have a Casus belli in AOs eyes against both those deities and their followers so she can withold magic in 5ed
Now whether that also applies to Shar and which ever deities are using the Shadow Weave |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 04:27:15
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| Chiming in three pages late as usual, but I wanted to say I wasn't happy with the latest destruction of Myth Drannor. I know it wasn't completely destroyed, but it was a major setback. Also, I agree with others that Shade has been overused, but I actually liked the storyline of them being villians, and I think Shade falling on another city was dramatic yet anticlimactic at the same time. And a little cheesy. I mean a city falling from the sky on another city? C'mon. I thought it was a cheap way of ending the storyline of Shade as the main villians and reducing Muth Drannor to ruins again. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 04:34:18
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Chiming in three pages late as usual, but I wanted to say I wasn't happy with the latest destruction of Myth Drannor. I know it wasn't completely destroyed, but it was a major setback. Also, I agree with others that Shade has been overused, but I actually liked the storyline of them being villians, and I think Shade falling on another city was dramatic yet anticlimactic at the same time. And a little cheesy. I mean a city falling from the sky on another city? C'mon. I thought it was a cheap way of ending the storyline of Shade as the main villians and reducing Muth Drannor to ruins again.
The whole Sundering, the premise of the events in all the novels, consists of Ao snapping fingers and fixing stuff. Just saying... |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 04:38:26
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| Yeah good point. I'm happy the gods are back, even if it was Ao snapping his fingers. I guess they (Wizards)was ttrying to get everything to a certain point so they could move on with their plans. Still, there comes a point when there is too much cheap explanations/events. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 04:51:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
The choice Mystra faces is whether to spread out her power and achieve a balance of sorts, or to hoard all the power of magic and become a tyrant by default.
The Goddess does not just share her power with mortal Chisen, she shares magic with all the other deities. If she kept all the power to herself, the other gods would be subservient to her will, their every act of magic, and that of their mortal worshippers, dependent on her consent.
I don't think Mystra as Tyrant would qualify her as an Overgod, but she could surely claim that title and rule over all the other deities.
Actually its more a case of she CANT withold magic with other deities
Mystra (Midnight) pulled Cyrics magic using rights in one of the novels and was forced by AO to give it back. Now on the other hand with Cyric and Shar (although Shar probably wouldnt bother as she has the Shadow weave) killing MYstra and attacking her portfolio the reborn Mystra may have a Casus belli in AOs eyes against both those deities and their followers so she can withold magic in 5ed
Now whether that also applies to Shar and which ever deities are using the Shadow Weave
It doesn't even make sense to me that deities use the Weave. We know that there are other sources of magical power. Powerful empires like Imaskar, Narfell, and Bael Turath were formed by spellcasters who used alternate forms of magic. So why ever risk Mystra cutting you off, or Mystra being killed for the 50th time, causing your followers to be unable to cast spells? |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 10:14:19
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I was always of the belief that all the ancient empires such as Imaskar and Narfell used the Weave. Certainly Narfell did.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Was destroying Shade & Myth Drannor necessary?
