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Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4607 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2015 :  06:51:24  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
So with the spellplague dropping several Abeir land massess into Toril and the Sundering 2.0 leading into 5ed undoing alot of these changes a few questions....

Are the people of Unther/Halruaa/Mulhorand/Maztica dead? Or where they "planeshifted" to the rest of Abeir for the last century or so?

If the Sundering is going to remove all or most of the Abeir elements that where added in 4ed ie Tymanther/Akanul Dragonborn, Abeir Genasi etc will they be removed globally ie for all intense and purposes all Abeir characters and creatures have an "Extraplanar" trait and the Sundering is basicly a mass Banishment spell that removes them from Toril or are they just going to remove the Abeir landmassess and anyone who happans to be living there when it happans? (Which then begs the question what will be living in the areas when the Abeir land masses are banished?)

Thoughts?

(on a side note Im not a fan of 4ed but nor is this thread meant to be a "4ed is a the tool of the devil" flame thread so can we keep it civil please)

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sfdragon
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2285 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2015 :  07:28:27  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
4e is the tool of the Dark Three. Bane Bhaal and Myrkul thank you for your patronage.

from what is said, the areas are going back to abeir and the inhabitants in those lands are a well.

the dragonborn serving with the purplr dragon of cormyr are staying in cormyr etc.

same with the rest, even that thayan red wizard that is setting up shop in akanul when it goes back to abeir. now I could be wrong....

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


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BenN
Senior Scribe

Japan
382 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2015 :  13:47:14  Show Profile Send BenN a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm wondering what's happened to Evermeet. Is it still stuck in the Feywild? Or back in Faerun?
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Irennan
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Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2015 :  14:01:08  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ed confirmed that Halruaa was never gone (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?416416-Per-Ed-Greenwood-Halruaa-survived-the-Spellplague), but we don't know anything about the other regions you mentioned yet. Maybe the book that will come out in November will clarify on those.

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Dargoth
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Australia
4607 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2015 :  14:13:17  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BenN

I'm wondering what's happened to Evermeet. Is it still stuck in the Feywild? Or back in Faerun?



Hmm that makes me wonder if the other replaced countries have also been displaced somewhere else as well

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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1150 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2015 :  14:29:09  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Any Abeiran dragonborn or genasi that weren't in territory transplanted from Abeir at the time of the Sundering would remain on Toril, similarly any Torilians who WERE in that territory would now be trapped in Abeir. I believe it's been noted that a truly significant number of Abeiran dragonborn were away from Tymanchebar/Tymanther when it was re-transposed and that's pretty much why they're still a player race in 5e.

Unther/Mulhorand and Maztica have not been mentioned yet. I doubt that they will be covered in Sword Coast Adventures.

As for Evermeet, I think that WILL be covered, albeit briefly, in SCA, but I base that on educated guesswork and not any kind of actual insight.

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Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4607 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2015 :  15:17:43  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo

Any Abeiran dragonborn or genasi that weren't in territory transplanted from Abeir at the time of the Sundering would remain on Toril, similarly any Torilians who WERE in that territory would now be trapped in Abeir. I believe it's been noted that a truly significant number of Abeiran dragonborn were away from Tymanchebar/Tymanther when it was re-transposed and that's pretty much why they're still a player race in 5e.

Unther/Mulhorand and Maztica have not been mentioned yet. I doubt that they will be covered in Sword Coast Adventures.

As for Evermeet, I think that WILL be covered, albeit briefly, in SCA, but I base that on educated guesswork and not any kind of actual insight.



Well there are quite few Dragonborn living in Neverwinter (at least according to the Neverwinter MMO)

Ive personally come to view Dragonborn as the PC player race for Half Dragons (even though the Lore says they arent)

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

Mel Brooks
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2015 :  16:52:24  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Over-long post ahead - my apologies. I get passionate about the Realms

What I would like to see is they use the 4e chaos to repair the setting, NOT to 1e/2e (and even 3e), but rather, closer to Ed's original. I am not saying re-write everything - there is a boat load of good in all those editions (some nifty stuff even came out of 4e). But now WotC (and US) have a golden opportunity - the Spellplague allows them to re-imagine the world and still stay within canon.

Bring back Mulhorand. Not the Mulhorand we got in 1e/2e, but rather, and 'old empire' more akin to an ancient, mysteriuos, decadent empire like how Ed imagined. He may have used the term 'like Egypt' when describing its closest RW nation, but what he meant was 'in depth and history', and their being run by a state religion. Someone took that literally and turned it into Egypt. It should never have BEEN Egypt, it should have reminded us of Egypt, but only in the broadest, sweeping terms. If the Mulan got swapped between Abeir & Toril, all we have to say is that many of them died, and that those who were left were stuck on a world VERY different from what they are used to - a world without gods! The people would returned changed - they'd have become more jaded and self-serving. Some may want to 'go back to the old ways', but most would just pay priests lip-service and tend to their business.

Same for Unther. In fact, maybe turn Unther into a 'godless country' similar to Rahadoum in Golarion (I am NOT saying copy them - something a lot darker should be going on there).

Halruaa - the Spellplague may have taught them that they shouldn't be so isolationist; that perhaps they DO need other people and should be involved with the rest of the world (they always were, but they should be more up-front about it now, not skulking about or spying via magic). Just think, isn't it about time we got that Imperial Airship Travel company we always wanted? (Okay, may that I always wanted LOL). I had no trouble using the portal network, but for those who aren't crazy about emphasizing that, it could be a more 'solid' way of getting your PCs all over the Realms quickly. C'mon... a zeppelin docking at a tower in Suzail... you KNOW you want it.

Who needs SJ when we can have sky pirates?

Maztica - where to start? Great idea, horrible execution. Throw away ALL the RW baggage, and re-imagine it with some original concepts. Blend it and Returned Abeir (Larakond).* Its not that hard - take the Maztica region and paste the Abeir material over it. I had started to do this myself (using Anchormé) way back when, but that was when we all thought Abeir/4e was here to stay and some of us wanted to keep Maztica. Blending the two is even better. Use the Maztica mythos - that Abeir was the 'True World' they always thought they'd return to. Their pantheon is almost perfect fit for the draconic one - its begging to be merged! Then, after a century or so there, they realized it wasn't the paradise they thought (or left behind thousands of years ago). They come back stronger and smarter - no-one is going to kick-their-arse so easily anymore. Turn one of their brotherhoods into half-dragons, or even dragonweres (able to take the form of a small dragon {dragonette?}, but preferring a hybrid form... that looks coincidentally much like a half-dragon). There could even be different groups for each subtype. It would be AMAZING.

Also, emphasize the shipping/trade going on much more now between the two land masses. If Halruaa gets their Airship service, even have a few of those go over there. That would be fun, considering how dangerously close they'd be flying near Evermeet airspace with its temperamental weather. Which brings me to...

Evermeet. We hardly knew you. And that was A GOOD THING. As much as I loved the Evermeet supplement (and Elaine's wonderful novel), we should have never learned so much (at least not the supplement... the novel was GOLDEN). Evermeet was meant to be that 'mysterious land across the sea where old elves went to die' (or whatever). It was Tolkienesque, but Tolkien himself based it upon the 'dwindling' of the Fey in Celtic and then later medieval folklore. Make the elves of Faerūn more reclusive (like how they are in GH), and make Evermeet that 'far-away fairyland humans could only dream about'. There should be some changes - maybe have Amlaruil have 'ascended' to an archfey form (she'd be a demipower so that just explains everything). Her and the island are now linked closer even then before (its her 'physical anchor' to the world, as all Fey need one of those). She can't die unless the island dies (so think of her as an uber nymph LOL). Give her the crackeling, moving hair (we lost The Simbul, right?) with little bolts of blue lightening playing around her (when she's angry/emotional), and eyes with the universe reflected in them (see the 1e DD manual and the 'Ptah' illustration). Make her VERY inhuman. Then make the gold and silver elves a reflection of the Seelie/Unselie courts of the Feywild - just two groups with VERY different opinions on how Elves should behave... but in the end, all follow the rule of Queen Amluiral.

And THAT is how you fix the Realms, keep some new, bring back some old, merge stuff, mix in a little of new stuff here and there to make it all seamless, and WALLAH, you got yourself THE fantasy RPG setting for the next decade. People are looking for 'the next big thing' right now. Don't disappoint them. Its not as hard as you think - all fans really want is to read something and go, "holy crap! that is SO KEWL!!!"

JUST DO IT.



*I'd even be willing to do a map - FOR FREE - to show them how easily it could be done. Almost all the important Abeir sites are along the coast (or along rivers)- just stick the natives further back in the jungles (as it should be). Then they could pay Mike Schley to make it all pretty.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 30 Jul 2015 03:58:36
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Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4607 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2015 :  00:11:43  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Over-long post ahead - my apologies. I get passionate about the Realms

What I would like to see is they use the 4e chaos to repair the setting, NOT to 1e/2e (and even 3e), but rather, closer to Ed's original. I am not saying re-write everything - there is a boat load of good in all those editions (some nifty stuff even came out of 4e). But now WotC (and US) have a golden opportunity - the Spellplague allows them to re-imagine the world and still stay within canon.

Bring back Mulhorand. Not the Mulhorand we got in 1e/2e, but rather, and 'old empire' more akin to an ancient, mysteriuos, decadent empire like how Ed imagined. He may have used the term 'like Egypt' when describing its closest RW nation, but what he meant was 'in depth and history', and their being run by a state religion. Someone took that literally and turned it into Egypt. It should never have BEEN Egypt, it should have reminded us of Egypt, but only in the broadest, sweeping terms. If the Mulan got swapped between Abeir & Toril, all we have to say is that many of them died, and that those who were left were stuck on a world VERY different from what they are used to - a world without gods! The people would returned changed - they'd have become more jaded and self-serving. Some may want to 'go back to the old ways', but most would just pay priests lip-service and tend to their business.

Same for Unther. In fact, maybe turn Unther into a 'godless country' similar to Rahadoum in Golarion (I am NOT saying copy them - something a lot darker should be going on there).

Halruaa - the Spellplague may have taught them that they shouldn't be so isolationist; that perhaps they DO need other people and should be involved with the rest of the world (they always were, but they should be more up-front about it now, not skulking about or spying via magic). Just think, isn't it about time we got that Imperial Airship Travel company we always wanted? (Okay, may that I always wanted LOL). I had no trouble using the portal network, but for those who aren't crazy about emphasizing that, it could be a more 'solid' way of getting your PCs all over the Realms quickly. C'mon... a zeppelin docking at a tower in Suzail... you KNOW you want it.

Who needs SJ when we can have sky pirates?

Maztica - where to start? Great idea, horrible execution. Throw away ALL the RW baggage, and re-imagine it with some original concepts. Blend it and Returned Abeir (Larakond).* Its not that hard - take the Maztica region and paste the Abeir material over it. I had started to do this myself (using Anchormé) way back when, but that was when we all thought RE was here to stay and some of us wanted to keep Maztica. Blending the two is even better. Use the Maztica mythos - that Abeir was the 'True World' they always thought they'd return to. Their pantheon is almost perfect fit for the draconic one - its begging to be merged! Then, after a century or so there, they realized it wasn't the paradise they thought (or left behind thousands of years ago). They come back stronger and smarter - no-one is going to kick-their-arse so easily anymore. Turn one of their brotherhoods into half-dragons, or even dragonweres (able to take the form of a small dragon {dragonette?}, but preferring a hybrid form... that looks coincidentally much like a half-dragon). There could even be different groups for each subtype. It would be AMAZING.

Also, emphasize the shipping/trade going on much more now between the two land masses. If Halruaa gets their Airship service, even have a few of those go over there. That would be fun, considering how dangerously close they'd be flying near Evermeet airspace with its temperamental weather. Which brings me to...

Evermeet. We hardly knew you. And that was A GOOD THING. As much as I loved the Evermeet supplement (and Elaine's wonderful novel), we should have never learned so much (at least not the supplement... the novel was GOLDEN). Evermeet was meant to be that 'mysterious land across the sea where old elves went to die' (or whatever). It was Tolkienesque, but Tolkien himself based it upon the 'dwindling' of the Fey in Celtic and then later medieval folklore. Make the elves of Faerūn more reclusive (like how they are in GH), and make Evermeet that 'far-away fairyland humans could only dream about'. There should be some changes - maybe have Amlaruil have 'ascended' to an archfey form (she'd be a demipower so that just explains everything). Her and the island are now linked closer even then before (its her 'physical anchor' to the world, as all Fey need one of those). She can't die unless the island dies (so think of her as an uber nymph LOL). Give her the crackeling, moving hair (we lost The Simbul, right?) with little bolts of blue lightening playing around her (when she's angry/emotional), and eyes with the universe reflected in them (see the 1e DD manual and the 'Ptah' illustration). Make her VERY inhuman. Then make the gold and silver elves a reflection of the Seelie/Unselie courts of the Feywild - just two groups with VERY different opinions on how Elves should behave... but in the end, all follow the rule of Queen Amluiral.

And THAT is how you fix the Realms, keep some new, bring back some old, merge stuff, mix in a little of new stuff here and there to make it all seamless, and WALLAH, you got yourself THE fantasy RPG setting for the next decade. People are looking for 'the next big thing' right now. Don't disappoint them. Its not as hard as you think - all fans really want is to read something and go, "holy crap! that is SO KEWL!!!"

JUST DO IT.



*I'd even be willing to do a map - FOR FREE - to show them how easily it could be done. Almost all the important Abeir sites are along the coast (or along rivers)- just stick the natives further back in the jungles (as it should be). Then they could pay Mike Schley to make it all pretty.



Id like to see them bring Jhaamdath back. With Chondath pretty much a dead zone and with the Abeir nation that dropped there soon to leave that area is going to be pretty barren.

Something along the lines of this

During the 2nd Sundering Auppenser finally dies. The chaos of Sundering causes Auppensers realm in the planes to disintergrate this results in a large number of his petioners and followers to reenter the realms. They reappear where they died as Psionic "Planetouched".

Many appear in Vilhon reach which is slowly begining to fill with water. Due to the slow rising water the Jhaamdathans are able to react, they uncover several "Uxiom" (Cant remember the exact name Ed Bonny gave to them) from the Jhaamdathan cities and use them to create a Psychic wall that stretches from the North coast to the southern coast of the Vilhon reach that prevents the rising water from reflooding the old Jhaamdathan cities.

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

Mel Brooks
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BenN
Senior Scribe

Japan
382 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2015 :  04:43:20  Show Profile Send BenN a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Evermeet. We hardly knew you. And that was A GOOD THING. As much as I loved the Evermeet supplement (and Elaine's wonderful novel), we should have never learned so much (at least not the supplement... the novel was GOLDEN). Evermeet was meant to be that 'mysterious land across the sea where old elves went to die' (or whatever). It was Tolkienesque, but Tolkien himself based it upon the 'dwindling' of the Fey in Celtic and then later medieval folklore. Make the elves of Faerūn more reclusive (like how they are in GH), and make Evermeet that 'far-away fairyland humans could only dream about'. There should be some changes - maybe have Amlaruil have 'ascended' to an archfey form (she'd be a demipower so that just explains everything). Her and the island are now linked closer even then before (its her 'physical anchor' to the world, as all Fey need one of those). She can't die unless the island dies (so think of her as an uber nymph LOL). Give her the crackeling, moving hair (we lost The Simbul, right?) with little bolts of blue lightening playing around her (when she's angry/emotional), and eyes with the universe reflected in them (see the 1e DD manual and the 'Ptah' illustration). Make her VERY inhuman. Then make the gold and silver elves a reflection of the Seelie/Unselie courts of the Feywild - just two groups with VERY different opinions on how Elves should behave... but in the end, all follow the rule of Queen Amluiral.

Thanks for your ideas. I like the bit about Amaruil becoming some kind of archfey or demipower.

However, I'm not a big fan of a mysterious, Tolkienesque 'fey land beyond the sea'; in fact, I like the idea in Elaine Cunningham's Evermeet that the 'Tolkienesque' image of Evermeet as an inviolate refuge of the elves is in fact not real - the island is vulnerable to outside attack, and the elves cannot hope to shut themselves off from the world forever. This theme is continued in the Last Mythal trilogy, where the leaders of the Elven Crusade realize that they have to interact with Faerun to ensure the safety of Evermeet.

I like the idea of the Elven Return in general (subverting the Tolkienesque theme of Retreat, and the time of the elves being almost over). I'm especially interested to find out what happens now (post-Sundering) to the elves of the Realms, with the status of Evermeet unknown, and the forces of the Elven Return (Army of Myth Drannor) largely destroyed.

Additionally, I'm interested in what happens in the Moonshaes post-Sundering, specifically in Sarifal - with the weakening of the link with the Feywild, are Lady Ordalf & co going to go back where they came from? (precipitating the Kendrick's reclaiming their lands on Gwynneth).
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe

300 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2015 :  15:16:20  Show Profile Send Cyrinishad a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Halruaa - the Spellplague may have taught them that they shouldn't be so isolationist; that perhaps they DO need other people and should be involved with the rest of the world (they always were, but they should be more up-front about it now, not skulking about or spying via magic). Just think, isn't it about time we got that Imperial Airship Travel company we always wanted? (Okay, may that I always wanted LOL). I had no trouble using the portal network, but for those who aren't crazy about emphasizing that, it could be a more 'solid' way of getting your PCs all over the Realms quickly. C'mon... a zeppelin docking at a tower in Suzail... you KNOW you want it.

Who needs SJ when we can have sky pirates?



+1 TO THIS.

This is part of the reason I spent a lot of 3rd Edition building stories off of Halruua. My players weren't huge fans of the idea that they would just be teleporting everywhere, or using Portals constantly. So, Airships became the vehicle of choice. It enabled them to have a mobile base of operations with a handful of NPCs and resources that they could access between quests. And, there was suddenly a whole new element of danger that they hadn't thought about initially... Airship Combat. And Yes, of course... Sky Pirates. Despite them thinking initially that it was overpowered to have a mobile base, they soon realized that it was another two-sided coin, and you have to defend it as well...

Also, the idea of Halruua and Maztica linking up via Airship... All I can say is, welcome to the Age of the Feathered Serpent!

To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates

Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2015 :  17:39:24  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just pasted the Five Nations of Eberron right on top of my Halruaa and it was a great fit.

quote:
Originally posted by BenN

Additionally, I'm interested in what happens in the Moonshaes post-Sundering, specifically in Sarifal - with the weakening of the link with the Feywild, are Lady Ordalf & co going to go back where they came from? (precipitating the Kendrick's reclaiming their lands on Gwynneth).
I would superimpose them - just shunt sarifal into the Feywild. It not only makes sense in terms of 'all things fey', but its also closer to how the canon had it in the Moonshae novels. The main difference between this piece of the Feywild and all the rest of how it overlaps Faerūn is that there are MANY portals between the two - fey, and elves that are more 'in touch' with their fey heritage (ie, Lythari), can sense these 'gates' when in proximity to them (5 miles per level of fey*, 1 mile per level of someone with 'fey blood'). Thus, it is both 'right next door', and also 'a world away'.

We also have two of Amluiral's children (twin boys, IIRC) 'in hiding' in the Moonshae elf/fey lands - this was completely overlooked in all 4e articles pertaining to both places. I'd like to see something done with that - maybe have them become some sort of 'heroes of destiny' that were foretold by some prophesy.

As for the other thing - I wouldn't have cared if the elves were always 'in your face' in Faerūn, but in 3e they did a complete turn-around with the retreat and that just rubbed me the wrong way. If we never had a retreat it would be fine, but I found the back-and-forth thing a bit unbelievable. Its not just Tolkien, it RW folklore, and also many other series like Marion Bradley's Avalon novels. Elves portrayed just as 'pointy-eared humans' just feels so wrong to me. I am quite a bit biased, though, coming from Greyhawk originally - those elves were more reclusive.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 30 Jul 2015 17:41:20
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2015 :  18:05:46  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth

Id like to see them bring Jhaamdath back. With Chondath pretty much a dead zone and with the Abeir nation that dropped there soon to leave that area is going to be pretty barren. <snip>
As much as this sounds pretty cool, my one big problem with this is that Jhaamdath is the only 'Ancient, Fallen Empire' that hasn't returned - they've over-played that card already.

If we hadn't got the Imaskari back I'd say go for it, but I think another 'return' would be jumping the shark. HOWEVER, thats not to say it couldn't be done, so long as it isn't as heavy-handed as the Nethril and Imaskar stuff was done. Instead of actual Jhaamdathans returning, how about a 'secret society' of descendents that have taken the opportunity of the retreating seas to stake their claim? I wouldn't even call it Jhaamdath - call it something along the lines of 'the Empire of the Mind's Eye' or some-such. They'd consider themselves a nation, but in truth, it would just be a cult-like group trying to reform Jhaamdath with the bits of broken pieces they'd be finding (so not nearly as glorious as their title makes them sound). You could even have them 'worshiping' the Udoxias - a self-aware udoxias with a devious plan of its own (something like this would attract the attention of beings like Aboleths and Illithids).


And speaking of High Imaskar... GET RID OF IT. UGH!

Not sure what to do there - we already have the shades/Nethril doing the 'undead thing'. Perhaps when Mulhorand returns and the Imaskari get wiped (again), have the few survivors be something else. Maybe something very strange and different. A Tan chin like Lich (Suel Lich) might be cool - an incorporeal undead that needs a host body. Of course, thats still makes them a type of undead and therefor too similar to Netheril and Shades. Plus we already have Tan Chin in that region doing that same thing. If we make them too different - say like Sharn or Pharimm - thats also been done to death now. Not archmages, not undead, and not aberrations - that doesn't leave much. Wizshades could be an option, but that sounds too much like 'shades'. Some sort of semi-crazed energy being, perhaps. Something that would have to use a temendous amount of its own energy just to manifest a physical body (so they risk draining themselves). Something... haven't really hit upon anything that would make people go, "Awesome!". Make them into Newhon ghouls? that would be kinda cool... but also some other IP (even thought there IS one in FR canon). Something vampiric? Add that to the 'energy being' thing I mentioned just above - they need other's lifeforce to resupply their energy. That could work. A new type of creature - Manasites: a parasitic being that lives off the life energy of others. Still capable of epic magic... but at great cost. They risk dwindling themselves out of existence.

All this thinking for something I'd never use... Ugh... why couldn't they just stay 'dead and buried'?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 30 Jul 2015 18:31:44
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Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4607 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2015 :  00:53:45  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The problem is going to be that soon or later there going to do a Complete Psionics handbook and as the FR is now the core setting its going to reference the realms. Now once you remove the old Jhaamdath empire PSionics pretty much became the domain of Derro and Mindflayers neither of which being very desireable as player races as they are inherently evil. So there going to have to add something to the realms and Id rather they draw on something from existing lore and build on it then to dump something completely new into the setting.

Outside of Psionics bringing Jhaamdath solves a few other problems as well

It helps repopulate an area of the realms which after the Abeir leave is going to be pretty barren and desolate. Even those settlements that werent directly affected by the Abeir likely havent done well since the spellplague after all the water pretty much retreated out of the Vilhon reach during 4ed so trade for places like Hlondeth more than likely ceased to exist (I wonder if the Yuan ti are still in Hlondeth)

It also would add some potential conflict elements with the Emerald enclave and Hlondeth (Which sits on one of the old Jhaamdathan cities)

Yeah I get what your saying about another returned ancient empire if the Mulan end up returning I suspect the Imaski are going to have to do some fast talking or theres going to be a massive war between the returned Mulan and Imaski as they dont excatly have any reason to like each other the Mulan being the original Imaski empires slaves.

Jhaamdath cant be said to be another Arcane returned empire ie Imaski and the Netherese/Shade and in that way it is does seperate itself from the other 2.

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

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BenN
Senior Scribe

Japan
382 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2015 :  01:55:39  Show Profile Send BenN a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
We also have two of Amluiral's children (twin boys, IIRC) 'in hiding' in the Moonshae elf/fey lands - this was completely overlooked in all 4e articles pertaining to both places. I'd like to see something done with that - maybe have them become some sort of 'heroes of destiny' that were foretold by some prophesy.

I agree with you; it's strange that this story arc was never developed. Although according to canon (IIRC), at least one of them was devoured by the Ityak-Ortheel (Elf-Eater) when it attacked Synnoria.

quote:
As for the other thing - I wouldn't have cared if the elves were always 'in your face' in Faerun, but in 3e they did a complete turn-around with the retreat and that just rubbed me the wrong way. If we never had a retreat it would be fine, but I found the back-and-forth thing a bit unbelievable. Its not just Tolkien, it RW folklore, and also many other series like Marion Bradley's Avalon novels. Elves portrayed just as 'pointy-eared humans' just feels so wrong to me.

For myself, I found the way the 'Return' was done to be pretty good & believable; many elves on Evermeet were opposed to it, and it was only precipitated by the attacks on Evermeet, and the realization that isolation did not guarantee security.

I agree with you about the 'pointy-eared humans' thing; this is a challenge for fantasy writers, not only in describing elves, but other demi-humans as well. Are all dwarves short, fat, bearded Scotsmen? Are halflings just short, rotund yokels from Somerset, with large appetites?

I guess the challenge is to illustrate the 'otherness' of demi-humans (and not just in appearance, but outlook & philosophy too), but not make them utterly alien. Otherwise, role-playing a demi-human would be impossible.

Also, its worth bearing in mind that while many elves live in relative isolation (Evermeet, Evereska etc), many thousands live quite happily alongside other races, in Silverymoon, Waterdeep, Baldurs Gate & plenty of other places. So they're evidently not all reclusive isolationists.
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sfdragon
Great Reader

2285 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2015 :  03:01:06  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I dont want to jhaamdath come back.... I like it gone...... oh wait. We dont want old, nazi/napoleon warlike jhaamdath back. bring New Jhaamdath lie Jhaamdath of old pre- old nazi/ napoleon warlike Jhaamdath.

otherwise they can stay gone and I codone what the elves did......


better idea, just surprise us if anything.

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
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Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4607 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2015 :  03:46:35  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon

I dont want to jhaamdath come back.... I like it gone...... oh wait. We dont want old, nazi/napoleon warlike jhaamdath back. bring New Jhaamdath lie Jhaamdath of old pre- old nazi/ napoleon warlike Jhaamdath.

otherwise they can stay gone and I codone what the elves did......


better idea, just surprise us if anything.



lol

human commiting genocide bad! elven commiting genocide ok?

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

Mel Brooks
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Matrix Sorcica
Seeker

Denmark
89 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2015 :  11:41:02  Show Profile Send Matrix Sorcica a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Evermeet. We hardly knew you. And that was A GOOD THING. As much as I loved the Evermeet supplement (and Elaine's wonderful novel), we should have never learned so much (at least not the supplement... the novel was GOLDEN). Evermeet was meant to be that 'mysterious land across the sea where old elves went to die' (or whatever). It was Tolkienesque, but Tolkien himself based it upon the 'dwindling' of the Fey in Celtic and then later medieval folklore. Make the elves of Faerūn more reclusive (like how they are in GH), and make Evermeet that 'far-away fairyland humans could only dream about'. There should be some changes - maybe have Amlaruil have 'ascended' to an archfey form (she'd be a demipower so that just explains everything). Her and the island are now linked closer even then before (its her 'physical anchor' to the world, as all Fey need one of those). She can't die unless the island dies (so think of her as an uber nymph LOL). Give her the crackeling, moving hair (we lost The Simbul, right?) with little bolts of blue lightening playing around her (when she's angry/emotional), and eyes with the universe reflected in them (see the 1e DD manual and the 'Ptah' illustration). Make her VERY inhuman. Then make the gold and silver elves a reflection of the Seelie/Unselie courts of the Feywild - just two groups with VERY different opinions on how Elves should behave... but in the end, all follow the rule of Queen Amluiral.


I really like tis. Very inspiring. Thanks.
quote:
I just pasted the Five Nations of Eberron right on top of my Halruaa and it was a great fit.

Don't just tell, show us
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2015 :  15:55:01  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sadly, that part of my Misbegotten Realms map is the most incomplete. When I said, "a great fit", I meant from a lore perspective, not a geographic one. Its just an unlabeled chain of five large islands right now, about the size of Great Britain. Well... four, actually. The fifth one is blasted into several smaller islands (thats the Mournland).

The other four islands represent the Four surviving (Eberron) nations, and each is a province of Halruaa. My plan is to spread the settlements of Halruaa around within the other four.

Halruaa also takes the place of Alphatia, and I have Thyatis nearby connected to the continent (so I may have to squeeze the Mystaran settlements into Halruaa as well... this is the one nation where I don't even have anything rough-in yet (aside from the outline of the islands). Thyatis takes the place of Jhaamdath in the FR histories.

And now I've gone WAY BEYOND the subject of this thread.

ON TOPIC:
The things I want to keep in 5e from 4e: Warlock Knights of Vassa, the Eminence of Araunt, Primordials, Ed's Returned Abeir material (pasted into Maztica), Plaguelands/Plaguetouched individuals, and the Airspur stuff with the Genasi.

As great a fit as the Genasi are in Calimshan, Calimshan is a bit of problem. Its also STILL redundant with other stuff (Airspur). It would be a better fit over near the Golden Waters or in Zakhara itself... but we can't actually move it... CAN WE? I mean... you can explain just about anything with Spellplague stuff, but thats a bit much. Perhaps just change it all together - make it more like the 'Tomb Kings' region of Warhammer FB (minus the Egyptian stuff - we already have that over in Mulhorand, unfortunately). If they 'repair' Thay (and make Thaymount the equivalent of 'the Mount of Doom'), then Calimshan can become the new 'No Man's Land' where the undead reign - maybe put that Suel-like lich Shoon guy in charge. A 'dead empire' for real. Veldorn changed as well (less focus on undead and more on Kenkus and other monster types), so Calimshan works as the only 'Kingdom of the damned'. PCs can even be from there - incorporate Harrowed/Forsaken (Deadlands/Warcraft) into the region. They're basically 'awakened' zombies. I think 4e even had a book and rules for that.

I just checked the entry for 'The Beastlands' in the 4e guide - they got rid of the entire Golden Waters region? Ugh! The exact opposite of what they needed to do - Calimshan is the problem, NOT the Golden Waters.

Okay... I'm out. Have no idea how to fix that. They got rid of the thing that belonged there and spread genies all over the place. Instead of fixing the problem with Middle-Eastern culture EVERYWHERE the exacerbated it further. The only real fix is to take ALL of that and get it OUT of Faerūn, and give some love to Zakhara and incorporate Al-Qadim better into FR.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 31 Jul 2015 16:03:27
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe

300 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2015 :  16:58:09  Show Profile Send Cyrinishad a Private Message  Reply with Quote
...Markustay, do you know how difficult it is to contribute to a conversation when whatever you would want to say has literally just been written into the post?

So, the only thing I can say is... +1 to this quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The things I want to keep in 5e from 4e: Warlock Knights of Vassa, the Eminence of Araunt, Primordials, Ed's Returned Abeir material (pasted into Maztica), Plaguelands/Plaguetouched individuals, and the Airspur stuff with the Genasi.


To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates

Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
705 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2015 :  17:47:12  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I want to see a return of Narfell and the demonbinders.

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
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