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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Aug 2015 : 18:17:39
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I've always thought Gond was an abbreviated form Goibhnie. We even connected the two in the old Utter East thread/project. Its a perfect fit, and we already have a few Celtic powers running about. Gods DO change names over time (RW and fantasy).
See? Not all my cosmology posts are a wall of text.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2015 : 18:44:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I've always thought Gond was an abbreviated form Goibhnie. We even connected the two in the old Utter East thread/project. Its a perfect fit, and we already have a few Celtic powers running about. Gods DO change names over time (RW and fantasy).
See? Not all my cosmology posts are a wall of text.
Well, Gond/Zionil could be both Enki and Goibhnie, just changing names over many pantheons. Enki is a very old god after all.
Both Enki and Goibhnie are connected to craft, hospitality/protection and healing. In myths, anyone seeking Enki's protection, would get it.
It's also possible Goibhnie and Enki could met and merge, with the result being Gond.
One argument against it, is Enki's connection to water, and Gond's sort of connection to fire, but in myths, fire and water weren't necersarily exclusive or antagonistic towards each other. Agni was both a fire and water god.
Gond may have had some connection to Imaskar, seeeing his worship in Lantan and Durpar(both connected to Imaskari), and that would to me fit with Enki being often an opponent of other gods, who stands on humanity's side.
[EDIT]
Another interesting bit, is that Enki could influence and inspire other later craft gods. Some also actualy(in reall life) connect Enki with Ptah, due to their similarities, and the fact Egypt was close to both Sumer and Dilmun, and the three did influence each other. Although argubly, Enki was closer to Khnum.
Ptah also was connected to the Cananite god El by Egyptians, and El in turn, was probably connected to Enki, or was even a form of him.
In Ptah and Enki are somehow connected, it would explain how Ptah seemed to be connected to both the Egyptian and Sumerian/Babylonian pantheon, aside from those two being gods of the Mulan slaves.
[EDIT2]
Although if we identify Ptah with Enki, it would go against my theory with Gond/Zionil and Enki. But one could say it's Ea, Enki's Babylonian other self, that's connected to Ptah, but I'm probably overcomplicating stuff.
Of course, Gond/Zionil, could also Cyrinishad suggested, Ninurta, who took a name after his biological father(Enlil/Ellil), but methods of the one who was his mentor/brough up him(Enki).
The name Zionil also just has a Sumerian, or Semititic sound to it.
It sound either like an corruption of Enlil, or Zion(the Biblical City) combined with IL(which is another form of reading El, a pan-Semitic word meaning "god", and often found as ending of angelic names). Or a combination of Zion and Enlil. |
Edited by - Baltas on 23 Aug 2015 23:44:50 |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2015 : 03:44:34
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I'm a bit hesitant on making the Gond-Goibhniu connection, partly because of the ancient empire lore, but also because of Gond introducing weapons & smokepowder to mortals during the Avatar Crisis... Because although Goibhniu matches Gond on many levels, Goibhniu would not make weapons for mortals, only for other gods. However, there are a couple of interesting tidbits about Goibhniu that make me inclined to think that perhaps there is different connection for Goibhniu in the Realms. Goibhniu is connected with the concept of hospitality, and is therefore a keeper of the hearth (Heart/Soul & Earth), and his father is identified as a "Thrower of Axes"... and in many ways a Soul could be interpreted as a weapon that gods use. This makes me more inclined to identify Moradin of the Realms as actually being Goibhniu. Since Realms-Moradin isn't necessarily Multiverse-Moradin.
Regarding Smokepowder weapons, a Musketball or Cannonball could be seen as a parallel to Ninurta's mythic weapon "Sharur": A Flying Mace. |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2015 : 06:36:42
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You made me re-think my Gond lore. I pegged him as a very ancient power (Goibhnie).
But what if he was an Imaskari Artificer? I had once discussed somewhere a theory that the reason why the Imaskari disdained gods was because some of them figured out out how to become deities. Since Archmage (epic levels) = Exarch (demi-power) these days, the Imaskari would have been an empire of 'little gods'.
Gond fits being an ascended Artificer perfectly, and would help explain his popularity in that region. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2015 : 15:26:51
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An Imaskari Artificer... What if Gond is another case the Imaskari's reach exceeding their grasp? And Gond is actually an ascendend construct built by an Imaskari Artificer?! Hence, the Gondsmen of Lantan being constructs themselves...
If Ninurta is framed as being a powerful Imaskari Artificer, then Gond could be framed as being Sharur itself... An intelligent talking flying weapon, whose name meant "Smasher of Thousands". But, as with any AI type of experiment it is like opening Pandora's box, and it's power grew exponentially until it became a deity. Thus, the Imaskari shun the gods because they constructed a divinity that they could not control.
Gond assumes the name Zionil to send a message to the mortals, that he wants to build cities more than he wants to destroy them. |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
Edited by - Cyrinishad on 25 Aug 2015 15:30:17 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2015 : 16:49:57
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Hmmmm... Gond as an 'awakened golem' (Warforged).
Now THAT would be very interesting. It would definitely fit the region, and some of the weirder things both Blood & Magic and Bruce Cordell's novels have placed nearby (summoning & binding strange, extra-dimensional powers, and the creation of self-aware constructs). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2015 : 19:13:15
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Despite the fact that I'm aligning Gond with BANE in my home campaign, I like the idea that Gond as a deity is always working for the greater good. Circumstances being what they are in the Realms right now, Gond could see an alliance with BANE as an opportunity to accelerate invention, while maintaining a sense of stability for the humanoid races, and preventing Toril from being destroyed by Dragons, Undead, and the Abyssal Fiends.
If he was initially constructed by the Imaskari as a type of war machine, he could perceive his divinity as an opportunity for redemption not only for himself, but for his creators as well. In Sumerian myths Ninurta used the weapon Sharur to kill seven "heroes". So, perhaps this Imaskari Artificer creates an intelligent talking flying "Golem" to eliminate everyone that was a threat to the Imaskari. The hubris of the Imaskari led them to believe that this construct would perceive everyone that the Imaskari wanted to dominate as a threat to them. Initially, their creation could have correctly calculated that the seven most powerful heroes that opposed the Imaskari were a threat to them. However, after those heroes were eliminated it immediately calculated that this meant that the Imaskari could no longer be truly threatened by mortals. Therefore, it determined that the Imaskari had conquered the world, and all mortals were now by default, Imaskari. Of course, the death of seven heroes did not mean people & cities stopped resisting the Imaskari Artificers & Arcanists. When the "Golem" was then ordered to destroy everyone that was resisting them, it calculated that the Imaskari were now the next greatest threat to their own existence, and immediately began defending cities against destruction & enslavement by the Imaskari Arcanists. The oppressed people now saw this "Golem" as a savior, began to worship him and called him "Zionil" - god of the holy city. |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2015 : 15:56:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad
...as for the other "dead" gods that have returned, I have started considering making a connection to a certain god that may fit well as the power that AO answers to... ANUBIS.
If I was going to focus on who Ao answered to, I'd go for Ptah, myself... Because in Spelljammer lore, he's the one deity that is "universal" -- his clerics can receive spells in all spheres. Almost all other powers are limited to just one sphere... And his followers believe that he created all of the crystal spheres.
So, for my money, if I had to name Ao's boss, it would be Ptah.
YMMV, of course.
Wooly, you make a really good point about Ptah... It got me thinking that perhaps AO wasn't speaking to a "superior" at the end of the Avatar Crisis, but more of a partner in a cosmic agreement...
In some ways Toril could be seen as being set-up to function as a place to create unique deities while being shielded by AO from most divine conflicts in the Multiverse.
Anubis was at risk of fading from existence when Osiris took his portfolio. But, maybe Ptah and Anubis realized that the Ancient gods were dying out faster than new gods were being created. And they both saw the risks of dead gods floating through the Ethereal, they could be turned into resources for godless races like the Githyanki, or turned into undead gods, and there would be nothing to insulate the Multiverse from the influence of the Elder Evils. As Ethereal powers they may have been the only deities that could foresee the scope of the threat and realized that even gods needed to guardians.
Ptah assumes the role of creating more divinities, and Anubis assumes the role of guarding the dead divinities. So, it's conceivable that AO is actually Ptah... Hence his ability to convince the Ancient gods to send their Avatars to Toril as the Untheric and Mulhorandi pantheons. |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2015 : 19:59:27
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And now I feel I must quote myself, from an old thread...
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Somewhere, in a place outside of time, a meeting occurs…
Ao had gathered together all of the powers represented in Realmspace. After much deliberation, he let his edict be known. The Gods of Faerûn would be cast out of the Heavens, and would be made to walk upon the green world of Toril as mortals do. Such was his ruling, and so it was passed, and the powers of the Faerûnian Pantheon were removed from the chamber (if such a place could be described thusly) to meet out his sentence. He cast his gaze about, at the various members of the other human pantheons. “I am sorry; although you have done no wrong I must pass this judgment upon thee as well. Think it not a punishment; for the others have gone before thee, and although their might is greatly diminished, still they possess power anon to bring much suffering to thine own followers. Go now, so as to protect your people.” Fate, Maztica, and the Celestial Emperor (amongst others) simply bowed their heads, excepting judgment, and then they and their troupe also vanished. Turning to the non-human pantheons, he saw smug expressions on several faces. “Do not think that ye hath avoided their fate, for you too shall be sent to the world, until such a time when all have learned of humility”. Both Gruumsh and Moradin shot from their seats, but it was the clear, regal voice of Corellon Larethian that cut through the din. “You have NO right….” he began, but Ao merely arched his eyebrow in response and interrupted him. “No RIGHT? By the Ancient Accords I have EVERY RIGHT!” his voice booming off the walls of the extra-dimensional chamber. “You will each provide me with a manifestation, and then retire the remainder of your being to your own domains. The manifestations will be sent amongst your followers, and you will know what it is like to live as they. The core of your being will still be able to access any other worshippers you may have elsewhere, but all conduits, gates, portals, and connections from your realms to Abeir-Toril will be severed until further notice; and know ye this – if anyone of you attempts to enter within 100 Kilometers of the planet’s surface, I will hold you in violation of The Accords!” Opening his mouth, it looked as if Corellon was about to speak again, but Ao once again interrupted him. “And if ANY of you deem this unfair… I will simply summon the tribunal…”, and with those few words all murmuring in the room ceased. One by one, the leaders of each pantheon bowed their heads in acquiescence and disappeared. Looking about, Ao saw that there were only two beings remaining in Cynosure. Looking at the one seated in close proximity to where the Celestial Bureaucracy once stood, he addressed him, “And why are YOU still here?”. The furry, amused looking fellow got up and stated flatly “This whole thing sounds boring, and I don’t DO boring”. If Ao had a physical body, his face would have turned red with rage. “YOU DARE?!” he boomed, the very ground and walls quaking with the sound. “You will relinquish your power to me at once and travel to Toril with the others…”. The being known simply as Mad Monkey, looking around at the still quivering domain, turned to Ao. The corner of his mouth was pulled up in an amused smile, and with a snap of his fingers he stated flatly “no”, and with that he too vanished. Ao continued to stare at the spot Monkey last stood, his eyes narrowing. Suddenly Ptah, the sole remaining power in the room other the Ao, spoke “You are going to have big problems with that one, old friend”. Staring deep into the twin pools of infinite blackness that were the eyes of Ptah, Ao allowed his face a sad smile “Aye”. Ptah chuckled ruefully and faded from sight. Shaking his head wistfully, Ao made to go back to the business of ruling reality. Turning one last time to the spot Monkey had stood defiantly, he whispered “Aye… indeed”.
A bit over-the-top, but I wanted to capture folks attention when I detailed the Celestial Beauracracey (and yes, Ao does sound a wee bit too much like Elminster). 
That was from a thread about Monkeys here at the keep, way back in '08. Can't believe I am still tinkering with the pantheon all these years.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Aug 2015 20:00:48 |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2015 : 03:23:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If I was going to focus on who Ao answered to, I'd go for Ptah, myself... Because in Spelljammer lore, he's the one deity that is "universal" -- his clerics can receive spells in all spheres. Almost all other powers are limited to just one sphere... And his followers believe that he created all of the crystal spheres.
So, for my money, if I had to name Ao's boss, it would be Ptah.
YMMV, of course.
Actually, Ptah isn't the only one who can grant spells in all crystal spheres. Greyhawk's Celestian can as well (see CGR1 Complete Spacefarer's Handbook, p.83). Neither can do so on terrestrial worlds where the church hasn't been established (Toril, for example), however.
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2015 : 04:14:04
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quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If I was going to focus on who Ao answered to, I'd go for Ptah, myself... Because in Spelljammer lore, he's the one deity that is "universal" -- his clerics can receive spells in all spheres. Almost all other powers are limited to just one sphere... And his followers believe that he created all of the crystal spheres.
So, for my money, if I had to name Ao's boss, it would be Ptah.
YMMV, of course.
Actually, Ptah isn't the only one who can grant spells in all crystal spheres. Greyhawk's Celestian can as well (see CGR1 Complete Spacefarer's Handbook, p.83). Neither can do so on terrestrial worlds where the church hasn't been established (Toril, for example), however.
Jeff
That limitation is explicitly spelled out for Celestian, who is a god of space. It is not even hinted at for Ptah. |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2015 : 11:28:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That limitation is explicitly spelled out for Celestian, who is a god of space. It is not even hinted at for Ptah.
Hmm, so it does. Guess I was misremembering (I only skimmed it enough to get the page number). That said, I went to check what Powers and Pantheons had to say on the matter, and it describes how Ao summoned Ptah and sent him back to the pantheons of the Mulan peoples to bring them into the sphere, which doesn't sound like the kind of thing one would do with an overlord. :)
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2015 : 17:04:27
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quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That limitation is explicitly spelled out for Celestian, who is a god of space. It is not even hinted at for Ptah.
Hmm, so it does. Guess I was misremembering (I only skimmed it enough to get the page number). That said, I went to check what Powers and Pantheons had to say on the matter, and it describes how Ao summoned Ptah and sent him back to the pantheons of the Mulan peoples to bring them into the sphere, which doesn't sound like the kind of thing one would do with an overlord. :)
Jeff
A fair point.
Though even that's spinnable... Ao "summoning" Ptah could have been something along the lines of me sending my boss an email -- it's contacting him and requesting a response, but not forcing him to appear before me. One of the definitions of summon is "to call people to attend."
So Ao asked his boss to reach out to the powers of another sphere, because Ao himself has no influence at all beyond Realmspace. 
Again, I'm not saying that it's canon that Ao answers to Ptah; there's not even a canon implication that that is the case. I'm just saying that existing lore could support the idea, and that in my opinion, it's a stronger case than could be made for any other known multispheric powers.
Personally, while I don't dislike Ao, I don't have a use for him -- he's really just the ultimate MacGuffin. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2015 : 19:49:28
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I take that as Ptah being the Overgod of (D&D) Earth.
I picture it being more like the CEO of one corporation calling up another and saying, "Listen, we gotta talk. How about a round of golf on Tuesday?"
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2015 : 20:28:48
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| And Leira is really the goddess of stories, and all this furious pontification has just given her the power to re-manifest herself... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2015 : 21:03:06
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Well, that was sorta the point of my 'Monkey' story I posted.
He is literally the 'god of rules-breaking'. A god has absolute power within his domain, and his domain is not following the rules. Even Ao can't control him because of that (because Ao is also part of those rules).
Basically, as been stated before, here and elsewhere, a god IS their portfolio - there is no separating the two. They are a sentient manifestation of the concept.
So yeah, if Leira can find something in her portfolio that allows her to bend the rules, then by all means, she would. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Aug 2015 21:04:04 |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2015 : 21:03:52
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Great point Sleyvas, so here are some more stories to empower our favorite lady of the mists... I decided I'm going to drop Kiaransalee & Sseth from my previous concept for Ghaunadaur & Shargaas. I had forgotten that Lolth had supposedly subsumed the rest of the Drow Pantheon, so I'm going to stick with that lore. And there has been some conjecture about the status of Sseth, so he's getting benched until I get that figured out.
The multiverse lore we've created in this scroll about the return of BANE has established that BANE definitely returned to the Realms through Iyachtu Xvim. But, what if the vision that was sent to Iyachtu's clerics wasn't quite the entire story... just after the conclusion of the vision, the returned BANE gazes down upon the charred body of Xvim... he sees one of Xvim's hands move slightly and a sinister grin appears on BANE's face.
This idea is still very much in the early formative phases, but here's what I'm thinking at the moment:
There is one power in the realms that has been noted repeatedly as having a compatible view of the multiverse with BANE, and is noted as the one most likely to collaborate with him and is supposedly pleased by BANE's return, yet hasn't had any explicit instances of cooperation: KOSSUTH.
Let's consider this... Kossuth is repeatedly referenced regarding the Avatar Crisis as being Missing in Action, and is noted as being pleased by the return of BANE. What if Kossuth (since he's a Primordial) found a way to get to Abeir or the City of Brass during the Avatar Crisis... and found the real BANE waiting for him there? ...OR maybe Kossuth was BANE's patron deity, while BANE was a mortal... Either way, they make a deal, Kossuth gets Abeir and becomes the Ruler of the Primordials and BANE gets Toril and becomes the Ruler of the Gods... all they have to do is get BANE back to Toril.
Kossuth's key divine concepts are "purification through fire" "renewal" & "suffering"... Iyachtu was consumed by green fire in the vision when BANE returned. What if Kossuth made sure the fire only brought Iyachtu to the brink of death, as a sort of purification ritual to test Iyachtu's loyalty to his father?
If we go with the identity of Iyachtu's unnamed Tanar'ri mother as Lolth. BANE could reward his son's loyalty by telling Iyachtu that just as it is BANE's destiny to Rule all Worlds; it is Iyachtu's destiny to bring the Green Flame of Order & Rule the dominions that his mother has corrupted with Chaos and is under seige by demons of the Abyss: The Underdark. Hence, IYACHTU is purified and reborn as IBRANDUL.
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To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2015 : 18:33:31
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Most of this scroll has focused on musings regarding the "evil" deities of the setting, so I'm going to try and switch gears over to the "good" deities...
I'm sure some of this stuff has been brought up in other scrolls, but regardless here some of the questions running through my head about how to handle some of the "good" deities in my home campaign:
1. Is there any firmly established lore about Torm while he was a mortal?
I think Torm & Bane were both mortals during the same time period. So, I want to try and figure out some kind of plausible history between Torm & Bane while they were mortals to justify why they became such bitter rivals.
2. Some schools of magic are part of divine portfolios, and some aren't. I'd like to have every school of magic established in a divine portfolio... Which gods should get what?
As part of the returned Mystra's effort to stabilize the Weave, she is creating her own divine alliance to make sure Shar & Cyric & Lolth don't try and usurp control of the Weave again. Here's what I have for magic schools & gods so far:
Abjuration - Deneir?
Conjuration - Shaundakul?
Divination - Savras
Enchantment - Sharess?
Evocation - Talos?
Illusion - Leira
Necromancy - Velsharoon
Transmutation - Finder?
Universal (all wizards) - Azuth
The deities with question marks next to their name are tenative, in some cases I may have to write something about why they've returned. |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
Edited by - Cyrinishad on 06 Sep 2015 12:10:02 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2015 : 12:09:26
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| Right, thanks Wooly. Didn't he get killed somehow? Or am I confusing myself? |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2015 : 18:19:31
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Actually, he's been dead for quite some time.
Sorry, couldn't resist. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2015 : 19:17:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad
Right, thanks Wooly. Didn't he get killed somehow? Or am I confusing myself?
With the Sundering, he's likely back. It hasn't been explicitly stated yet, though. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2015 : 13:13:03
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Well, since we're on the topic of Velsharoon & Myrkul...
I was looking through the ol' AD&D Monster Mythology, and was thinking that maybe the thing to do is have Velsharoon stay "dead", and have the returned Myrkul take his portfolios... and have Myrkul actually be Mellifleur.
...and maybe have the returned Bhaal actually be Kanchelsis.
So, if I can think of one more (instead of BANE) it could be the "Undead Three" this time around. |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 05:33:06
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Have him be some form of 'Ancient dead' (Mummy). It works for someone who was part of an 'assassin religion'. I don't know of any offhand, but that doesn't mean you can't create one.
EDIT: Something LIKE THIS, maybe. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Sep 2015 05:43:07 |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 15:48:55
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 ...That's a great idea, and the it was literally staring me in the face the whole time! In ancient near-east myhtology Baal was originally a god of storms, but was later adopted into egyptian mythology. When adopted into egyptian myth, he was killed and resurrected (similar to Osiris)... BUT, because he was a god of storms, he was associated with Egypts original god of storms... The one that Assassinated Osiris: SETH. Therefore, SETH or SET = BAAL or BHAAL.
...And, BAAL's symbols in mythology are the Bull & the Cedar Tree. Which creates another parallel with the storyline I established for BANE/Gilgamesh. Because, this would make Bhaal/Set the second monster in the Gilgamesh Epic that tries to destroy him after he gets through the Cedar Forest, the Bull... Awesome. |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 20:58:01
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...now that the returned Bhaal and Myrkul are pretty well squared away in my head, the question is: Who takes BANE's position in the trio?
I want to make sure that the third spot is an undead power, to stick with the switch from the "Dead Three" to the "Undead Three"... and I want the third to be distinct in style aside from Mummy or Lich, which is why I was leaning toward a vampire (but there are certainly other possibilities). I'm not against incorporating powers or villains from other settings either, so here are some of the names on my list at the moment:
- Kanchelsis
- Strahd von Zarovich (since BANE had Fear in his portfolio, and Strahd rules the Demiplane of Fear)
- Kas
- Lord Soth (not vampiric, but fits the Tyranny aspect of BANE)
- Shargaas (His symbols are the Bat & a Crescent Blood Moon... I suspect Shargaas may be a vampiric deity... Using him would require me to rethink my previous Ghaunadaur concept, but that concept isn't set in stone yet anyway...)
- Iyachtu Xvim (not vampiric, but if I drop my previous Iyachtu/Ibrandul concept... Iyachtu Xvim could be conceptualized as a type of Revenant Deity, returned with the sole purpose of killing his father)
The Shaargas & Iyachtu Xvim concepts seem strongest to me at the moment, and don't require multiverse overlap.
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To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
Edited by - Cyrinishad on 09 Sep 2015 03:59:10 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 23:26:36
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Strahd is not a deity, and he does not rule the Demiplane of Fear -- unless they've made some radical changes to the setting, since I last looked.
Strahd is very, very powerful, particularly within the domain of Barovia -- but that's just one domain among many in Ravenloft. And despite his power, he's still a prisoner, there.
Additionally, I don't recall him having much interest in anything beyond his own borders. He exists to rule his domain, feed, and to try to get back with his beloved Tatyana. |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2015 : 03:58:18
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Thanks, Wooly. I was reading up on Ravenloft today, and I actually didn't realize that both Kas & Soth are potentially trapped in Ravenloft as well... I knew that they weren't deities, I was considering incorporating a named villain from outside of the Realms, but I didn't have a clear concept of how Ravenloft functioned... I'm going to have to do a lot more reading before I go anywhere near incorporating any of Ravenloft's material.
Fortunately, they weren't my top choices. |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2015 : 09:41:21
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Also, something I have for some time on my mind, are some similarities between Corellon and Demogorgon. Both are paragons of their kind (elves and demons), both are chaotic, both are dual-gendered/hermaphroditic, both had a gigantic falling out with their consorts (Corellon with Lolth, Demogorgon with Shami-Amurae), Corellon archenemy(well, one of them) is Gruumsh, god of orcs, while Demogorgon's is Orcus.
Of course, obviously, Demogorgon and Corellon aren't the same being. But they possibly may be reflections of each-other... |
Edited by - Baltas on 02 Oct 2015 11:06:38 |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2015 : 04:46:42
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| That's a great observation Baltas... It adds to one of the ideas I've speculating about the Abyss. The idea that perhaps the Abyss generates an Echo of everything in the Multiverse. So if Demogorgon is an Echo of Corellon, and Orcus is an Echo of Gruumsh, perhaps Lolth is actually an Echo of Araushnee. |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
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The time has come to Rewrite the Tablets of Fate!
