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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
 Posted - 05 May 2015 : 07:44:42
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Emmmmmm.... Why?
Edit: I know the reason why he's going, but there are more qualified personnel to work on FR lore.
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“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
Edited by - Shadowsoul on 05 May 2015 08:04:35
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 11:05:05
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Just because they hired SKR as a full-time employee doesn't mean they're not going to use others as freelancers. It also doesn't mean they're not going to bring in more talent.
Personally, I think it's great news. SKR has done a lot of stuff I like. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 11:33:42
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Thank goodness it's him and not somebody else.
Nobody will call bullshit faster than Sean Reynolds.
What's interesting to me is that he's come out of a self imposed retirement, and that he's working on licensing. In the past he wrote quite a bit about why managing third parties to work on products is both a bad idea and a pain in the neck to manage.
Also, link: http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?2580-Sean-K-Reynolds-just-rehired-by-WotC#.VUibZnBHaK0 |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 11:36:52
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| I see nothing indicating that he'll be working on FR. Anyway, good to see WotC hiring people, instead of firing them. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 11:40:30
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| Read a little further down the EN World thread, where Reynolds is quoted (from Facebook) as saying he is working on FR and D&D lore, and licensing. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 05 May 2015 11:41:02 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 13:19:41
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| Well, that's definitely positive (and now we know that FR lore is actually being worked on). However -from an outsider's PoV, and with all due respect to SKR- I'm somewhat worried about it, since we were promised that Ed would have been at the helm of the Realms, while these news don't really point towards that happening... |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 05 May 2015 13:24:07 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 14:06:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Well, that's definitely positive (and now we know that FR lore is actually being worked on). However -from an outsider's PoV, and with all due respect to SKR- I'm somewhat worried about it, since we were promised that Ed would have been at the helm of the Realms, while these news don't really point towards that happening...
It doesn't point to it not happening, either. Ed has never been an employee of WotC or TSR before them. Just because WotC has hired a regular staffer doesn't mean they're not going to be working with Ed.
SKR has been an employee of WotC in the past. He's done plenty of Realms stuff. He said on his own Facebook back that he's back with them to work on FR stuff.
I really don't understand how this could be perceived as any kind of negative. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 14:26:18
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| Hey, I said that it is definitely positive. You make a valid point on Ed's possible involvment as a freelancer, but that's rather different than the ''Ed will be at the helm'' that we were promised. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 05 May 2015 14:55:13 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 15:14:35
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The brief description we have does not indicate that Ed is being replaced by Sean.
What it does indicate is that Sean is working as some kind of coordinator--dare I say traffic cop--between WotC's Realms and D&D properties, and the outside developers that will be producing products for them. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 16:05:32
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| Seems like an odd decision to me, given Sean's strong leanings towards mechanical design over lore. But I agree with Jeremy, in that the position (a contract position, mind you) appears to be more about coordination than design. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 17:24:24
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Come on guys, everything Sean K Reynolds has done for Forgotten Realms and Golarion lore wise has been outstanding.
His god articles in Pathfinder AP are all gems I use for similarly flavored FR Gods. They are good reading. I think this guy is a master of Lore as well as Mechanics.
I feel good things for the FR will come of this, as I think he understands the realms better than anyone else on staff.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 17:34:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
The brief description we have does not indicate that Ed is being replaced by Sean.
What it does indicate is that Sean is working as some kind of coordinator--dare I say traffic cop--between WotC's Realms and D&D properties, and the outside developers that will be producing products for them.
That is exactly what WOTC needs, if you ask me. That way we don't get random stuff like Tiamat going from serving the Black Hand in Banehold to being trapped in the Hells by Asmodeus. Or the Cult of the Dragon suddenly being dominated by Tiamat worshippers. |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 17:37:47
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| I am glad to see Sean K Reynolds working with FR again. He was part of the group that put together some great FR supplements in 3e. He also worked on the 3e campaign setting with was a really solid product. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
Edited by - Tarlyn on 05 May 2015 17:44:09 |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 17:55:03
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No offense to SKR, but since we are product starved and they are going on about quality over quantity, I would rather Ed and the Dream Team be the ones who handle FR fully.
I've been in some full on discussions with SKR over on the Paizo site and sometimes you just go WTF? |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 18:45:48
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I really don't get this...
People have complained about WotC drawing down their staff.
People have complained about WotC not having any dedicated FR people in-house.
And now, WotC hires a dedicated FR guy with some really good FR products under his belt, and the complaint is that they didn't hire the right FR person.
WotC is doing exactly what people are complaining about WotC not doing, and we're still complaining.
In truth, I'm getting more disgusted by the constant negativity than by anything WotC has done or failed to do. I was one of the biggest opponents to 4E and the 4E Realms, and I'm still trying to give them a chance. I wish others could do the same. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 18:47:41
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Oh, and let me toss this out. It's a list of FR products SKR has worked on. One of them is a personal fave of mine, and several others are really good. Only one of them do I complain about, and that's more about the direction imposed from above than anything else.
Champions of Valor
Cloak & Dagger
Expedition to Undermountain
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3rd edition
Into the Dragon's Lair
Lords of Darkness
Magic of Faerűn
Mysteries of the Moonsea
Pool of Radiance: Attack on Myth Drannor
Unapproachable East |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 19:13:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Oh, and let me toss this out. It's a list of FR products SKR has worked on. One of them is a personal fave of mine, and several others are really good. Only one of them do I complain about, and that's more about the direction imposed from above than anything else.
Champions of Valor
Cloak & Dagger
Expedition to Undermountain
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3rd edition
Into the Dragon's Lair
Lords of Darkness
Magic of Faerűn
Mysteries of the Moonsea
Pool of Radiance: Attack on Myth Drannor
Unapproachable East
That's great and all but we won't be seeing lists of product like that anytime soon so I want those who are on Ed's Grognards list.
If we were getting loads of product then SKR can work away, but unfortunately we aren't so I want the best working on what little we will get. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 19:18:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I really don't get this...
People have complained about WotC drawing down their staff.
People have complained about WotC not having any dedicated FR people in-house.
And now, WotC hires a dedicated FR guy with some really good FR products under his belt, and the complaint is that they didn't hire the right FR person.
WotC is doing exactly what people are complaining about WotC not doing, and we're still complaining.
In truth, I'm getting more disgusted by the constant negativity than by anything WotC has done or failed to do. I was one of the biggest opponents to 4E and the 4E Realms, and I'm still trying to give them a chance. I wish others could do the same.
Sorry but if they want to play corporate then I will treat them like one.
I don't give them the benefit of the doubt anymore. I believe it when the product is in my hands. Like I've said before, I have been in the middle of one of SKR's discussions and it wasn't pretty.
When it comes down to the lore of FR, SKR's name does not pop up in the top five. I'm sure contributed to a lot of FR products but what exactly did he do and why didn't he make Ed's list of he is such a great FR person? |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
Edited by - Shadowsoul on 05 May 2015 19:29:34 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 19:42:40
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Ed has a list of who is and who is not a great FR person? I doubt it.
The thing I like about Reynolds is that he's not afraid to tell someone when they are being a bonehead. That includes the fans.
He's also not afraid to question the status quo, which is why he was an excellent addition to the design team that breathed new life into the Realms in Third Edition. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 19:53:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Ed has a list of who is and who is not a great FR person? I doubt it.
The thing I like about Reynolds is that he's not afraid to tell someone when they are being a bonehead. That includes the fans.
He's also not afraid to question the status quo, which is why he was an excellent addition to the design team that breathed new life into the Realms in Third Edition.
realmssecretariat.com/for-the-fans/the-grognards/
Since Ed himself decided to mention these guys and the fact that I am familiar with all their work, they are who I want working on FR. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 20:00:30
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I can't say that I know SKR's work, but I certainly don't subscribe to the idea that the only people that are competent enough to work in the FR have to be in one of Ed's lists.
This is just an excuse to complain.
I'm certain that if they had announced that they hired Ed to helm the Realms, there would be people complaining that Ed wouldn't be able to do anything because his hands are tied by the corporate suits.  |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 20:20:43
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| That's not a list of designers who, by lack of inclusion, Ed thinks is not great Shadowsoul. It's a list of Grognards, and it's a list that is destined to grow. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 20:46:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
I can't say that I know SKR's work, but I certainly don't subscribe to the idea that the only people that are competent enough to work in the FR have to be in one of Ed's lists.
This is just an excuse to complain.
I'm certain that if they had announced that they hired Ed to helm the Realms, there would be people complaining that Ed wouldn't be able to do anything because his hands are tied by the corporate suits.
I never said anyone else isn't competent enough.
I said I want top quality working on it since we won't be getting much. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 21:05:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
I can't say that I know SKR's work, but I certainly don't subscribe to the idea that the only people that are competent enough to work in the FR have to be in one of Ed's lists.
This is just an excuse to complain.
I'm certain that if they had announced that they hired Ed to helm the Realms, there would be people complaining that Ed wouldn't be able to do anything because his hands are tied by the corporate suits.
I never said anyone else isn't competent enough.
I said I want top quality working on it since we won't be getting much.
So why would you say that someone with such a list of credits isn't top quality? He's worked on some of the best Realms material we've had -- not as much as some, certainly, but more than a lot of others. Aside from the list of grognards that you seem to put such faith in, there's no one else I'd rather have working on Realms material... And certainly more than a few people, including past designers, that I'd prefer not to have touching the Realms.
Aside from the esteemed Brian R James, everyone on Ed's grognards list has been involved with the setting at least since 2nd edition. Look at Ed's own definition: "people who have done long and dedicated service for the Realms". Compared to the others on the list (and excluding Brian), SKR is a relative newcomer.
He's already proven he can turn out quality material. The fact that he once rubbed you the wrong way does not somehow equate to poor quality. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 21:17:09
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To be clear: there is nothing wrong with pointing to a list of Grognards and saying, "These are the guys I want to work on the Realms."
What is wrong is saying, "This designer is not great because Ed Greenwood did not put him or her on a list of grognards." |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 22:03:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
I can't say that I know SKR's work, but I certainly don't subscribe to the idea that the only people that are competent enough to work in the FR have to be in one of Ed's lists.
This is just an excuse to complain.
I'm certain that if they had announced that they hired Ed to helm the Realms, there would be people complaining that Ed wouldn't be able to do anything because his hands are tied by the corporate suits.
I never said anyone else isn't competent enough.
I said I want top quality working on it since we won't be getting much.
So why would you say that someone with such a list of credits isn't top quality? He's worked on some of the best Realms material we've had -- not as much as some, certainly, but more than a lot of others. Aside from the list of grognards that you seem to put such faith in, there's no one else I'd rather have working on Realms material... And certainly more than a few people, including past designers, that I'd prefer not to have touching the Realms.
Aside from the esteemed Brian R James, everyone on Ed's grognards list has been involved with the setting at least since 2nd edition. Look at Ed's own definition: "people who have done long and dedicated service for the Realms". Compared to the others on the list (and excluding Brian), SKR is a relative newcomer.
He's already proven he can turn out quality material. The fact that he once rubbed you the wrong way does not somehow equate to poor quality.
That's great but I think there are others who are better and at this stage I can nitpick as to how much quality I want to see.
Just having your name on the book isn't enough for me. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
Edited by - Shadowsoul on 05 May 2015 22:06:25 |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 22:05:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
To be clear: there is nothing wrong with pointing to a list of Grognards and saying, "These are the guys I want to work on the Realms."
What is wrong is saying, "This designer is not great because Ed Greenwood did not put him or her on a list of grognards."
Never said he wasn't good. Show me the post where I said that?
I think the list of people Ed named are better and more suited to give me the Realms I want.
If I am buying a new car then I want to go all out and get the best BMW seeing as I won't be buying another one for a long time. I want this one to count. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Mapolq
Senior Scribe
Brazil
466 Posts |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 22:36:50
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| SKR, while very opinionated and sometimes caustic on the Paizo boards, is a pretty good designer in my opinion and the products he has worked on for Paizo and 2e/3e WotC are almost all good to excellent in quality. I didn't agree with all of his opinions on the Paizo boards, or the way he expressed those opinions in a few places, but I respect his skill and think that if he is to be a sort of traffic cop for the realms he will be an excellent one. If he does something else lore or mechanics related he'll do well at that too. Maybe he isn't the top 1-3 when it comes to Realms lore knowledge (then again, he's not exactly clueless in the Realms given his track record) but he's much, much better than nobody and I'm sure he will do an excellent job at whatever he is assigned to do. |
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 23:00:28
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| This is good news. SKR back at WotC means, at some point, we will see an official 5e campaign setting for the Forgotten Relams. That's how I take the news. WotC is getting serious about the Forgotten Realms again. Hopefully they'll be reaching out to Eric L. Boyd and Steven Schend as well. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2015 : 01:44:32
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Asked: quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
Never said he wasn't good. Show me the post where I said that?
Answered: quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
I'm sure contributed to a lot of FR products but what exactly did he do and why didn't he make Ed's list of he is such a great FR person?
Regardless, I think it's pretty clear you were just trying to convey what you've said already: the list of Grognards is your ideal list of designers for any future FR work.
....
With Reynolds helping out, will this free up the other designers to do their work?
One idea put forward on the EN World forums is that Reynolds will be taking over the bulk of Chris Perkins workload vis-a-vis third party vendors. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Sean K. Reynolds heads to WoTc to work on FR lore
