| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Lukas Kain
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
 Posted - 01 May 2015 : 02:49:49
|
So I have been in the preliminary stages of planning a campaign in the Moonsea region, most likely starting in Phlan, but shortly thereafter traveling into Melvaunt. I want the Melvaunt portion to be particularly intrigue-laden and therein lies the problem: I have three products with conflicting information. The AD&D product "The Moonsea" talks about the three major families (Leiyraghon, Bruil, and Nurian), with the Lord Chancellor yet living (which obviously is because it’s a few years prior to 3rd edition). "Mysteries of the Moonsea" goes on to talk about the same few families and progresses their storylines a bit, kind of. Now "Sons of Gruumsh" mentions the Leiyraghons and Bruils, but we get Nanther instead of Nurian. The other thing is that it mentions Melvaunt is ruled by a council, but calls them the Council of Iron and informs us there are only seven members, not the 21 or 22 (I’m away from my books currently, so my memory may be a bit off on all this) the other two supplements tell us. As far as I can tell, "Sons of Gruumsh" is on the 3rd edition timeline, so that isn’t it.
I guess what I’m hoping for is some insight into what happened. It wouldn’t be such an issue if it weren’t for me liking some of the ideas present in SoG. Also, any fancy-dancy or clever campaign ideas for me? 
Thanks for any help you guys can provide me.
|
|
|
Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2015 : 08:20:01
|
| This makes me wish my books were not in storage, because now I want to know the answer about the Council's history. Also whether Sons of Gruumsh is in error or is providing updated Realmslore. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
 |
|
|
TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2015 : 14:07:59
|
| FR index confusingly separates them, but in FRCS3e it's already Nanthers |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
|
|
|
George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2015 : 16:49:39
|
It's interesting to see how realmslore gets massaged, altered or omitted as different authors latch onto subjects.
The original Melvaunt lore was from Ed's "The Everwinking Eye" column in Polyhedron#78. The "Moonsea" product repeats this lore but truncates the Council from 39 members to 21 (those 21 are the 8 Leiyraghons, 7 Nanthers and 6 Bruils mentioned in both products) by omitting Ed's statement that the remaining 18 Council members are from minor families.
I note that Lukas states that the Moonsea product list the three major families as the Leiyraghons, Bruils and Nurians - that's incorrect; while a Nurian is noted in both sources (the wizard Meldonder Nurian, the city's Lord of the Waves), the three major families in both products has the Nanthers instead of the Nurians.
To note another change/error, Ed had Meldonder's surname as Nuiran, while the "Moonsea" has it as Nurian.
And again, I think Lukas hasn't quite read his sources accurately enough. "Mysteries of the Moonsea" confirms that the Council has 21 members, but that only 13 of those positions are held by the aforementioned "big 3" families, 7 are held by individual merchants and one seat is vacant (formerly held by Dundeld Nanther, who was mentioned in both the older sources). So essentially, "Mysteries" remains true to the "Moonsea" in that the Council is still made up of 21 members, but significantly reduces the prominence of the "big three" on that ruling body.
"Sons of Gruumsh" remains consistent with the listing of the "big 3", but reduces the Council from 21 members to 7. It also introduces three new houses (Marsk, Calaudra and Natali) and seemingly a new position: Despot, which is held by Peuter Marsk.
As to "what happened", I'd read p.5 of "Sons of Gruumsh" carefully. What I glean from that is that members of the 21-person Council from the "big 3" died off and were replaced by members of minor houses or merchants. Unhappy at this shift in the balance of power, the Leiyraghons acted against the minor houses and prominent merchants to kick them off and greatly truncate the Council's numbers. To 'balance' this and avoid a backlash, the elected position of Despot was created as the ruler of the city, with the Council taking a lesser role and effectively acting as an advisory body. This meant that a power-share arrangement was brought into place, with the "big 3" obviously thinking that they could continue to rule from behind the scenes by manipulating the reigning Despot or subverting him/her if they acted against the "big 3's" interests, while the minor houses considered that having a shot at Despot was their only realistic avenue to wielding real power in the city. To balance everything out, the remaining Council members were not nobles or individual merchants at all, but three rotating guild members whose loyalties were to coin rather than to any of the nobles.
Seems like a fairly credible evolution to me.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
|
|
|
hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2015 : 17:37:55
|
| I never liked what Sons of Gruumsh did with Melvaunt. Mostly because it was released before Mysteries of the Moonsea was but only seems to make sense, like George said, if the adventure takes place in a time after the information given in the sourcebook would be accurate for. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
|
|
|
Lukas Kain
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2015 : 00:34:17
|
| Raking me over the coals a bit, mate. I did not mean to suggest that only the major families ruled, but they are obviously major powers in the government, and have been for quite some time. I just wanted to fully understand what was going on and I didn't have the source material with me, just what I had written in a notebook which was precious little. I was hoping someone would point out the various stages in the evolution of the Moonsea North, but I thought it a bit too much to ask. Anyways, thank you for the timeline and information George, and for "setting me straight" I guess. |
|
|
|
Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2015 : 01:23:43
|
| I am not George, but I would not read any negativity or bad intentions on George's part. Assume good intentions and that the wording is only meant to convey information, not attitude. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 03 May 2015 05:36:27 |
|
|
|
George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2015 : 05:59:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lukas Kain
Raking me over the coals a bit, mate. I did not mean to suggest that only the major families ruled, but they are obviously major powers in the government, and have been for quite some time. I just wanted to fully understand what was going on and I didn't have the source material with me, just what I had written in a notebook which was precious little. I was hoping someone would point out the various stages in the evolution of the Moonsea North, but I thought it a bit too much to ask. Anyways, thank you for the timeline and information George, and for "setting me straight" I guess.
Sorry that you were offended or upset. Not the intention.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
|
|
|
The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2015 : 03:39:33
|
Lukas, there are some untold lore tales of the Realms lurking in the changes to the Council. George has nicely outlined what the various published products say. I can add that a certain on-staff-at-the-time individual had plans to write some Realms fiction that would have incorporated some of the intrigue going on in Melvaunt. The fiction never got written. If I were you, I'd put the question to Ed in his thread, and see how much he can share.
love,
THO |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Moonsea confusion
