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lilibat
Acolyte
USA
20 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Apr 2015 : 16:21:13
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I am working on a Tiefling Warlock costume for GenCon this year. I have collected a lot of refrence art. It seems like no matter how heavily armored a Tiefling is their tail is naked. This seems like a real vulnerability to me. Is there a reason for them not having tail armor or is it just a coincidence?
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2015 : 16:53:51
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Armor chafing on the tail is the worst.
Honestly, who knows? Art design choice preferences?
Or perhaps you don't want something heavy and restrictive weighing down a semi-prehensile appendage that can be easily flicked out of the way?
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--Faraer |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2015 : 17:46:46
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I suppose it's much the same deal as with "boobplate". Only also to show the tail is present.
Then again, tail indeed can be long (prohibitively hard to hide), prehensile, used for balance...
And it's not like the tail is really gets in the harm's way - with lighter armor, covering its top part with skirt at most will do, and tiefling seem to emphasize mobility more often, so they rarely wear full plate. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2015 : 18:06:22
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quote:
Originally posted by lilibat
I am working on a Tiefling Warlock costume for GenCon this year. I have collected a lot of refrence art. It seems like no matter how heavily armored a Tiefling is their tail is naked. This seems like a real vulnerability to me. Is there a reason for them not having tail armor or is it just a coincidence?
Pics when you are finished! |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Korginard
Learned Scribe
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2015 : 18:50:07
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I think a Tiefling tail is too slender and long to support armor plates or even chain. It would be hard to create effective armor without totaly restricting it's movement. That said however, I wonder if Tiefling tails are strong and agile enough to add a blade or spike to it? It would definately require a seperate weapon proficiency but a tail weapon would make more sense to me than armor.
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lilibat
Acolyte
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2015 : 19:32:11
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| I am just doing leather armor which isn't that heavy. I was just thinking a simple laced up leather sleeve type arangement. Not a LOT of protection but better than naked. |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2015 : 22:29:20
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It would depend on vulnerability. Are there major arteries in the tail that would make losing it lethal? I'm guessing not, otherwise every evil villain would be sneaking up on tieflings and chopping off their tail once it was discovered.
Armor is primarily protection for the front. If you are sneaking up behind someone in a fight for your life, you are going to go for a quick kill. A knife to the back, chopping off the head, etc are all going to be much preferred to chopping off your opponent's tail. He's going to survive the tail loss and then try and kill you.
A fight with lives on the line is not bad Hollywood choreography where we don't aim for the vitals just because it looks cooler. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2015 : 23:57:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Korginard
I think a Tiefling tail is too slender and long to support armor plates or even chain. It would be hard to create effective armor without totaly restricting it's movement.
quote:
Originally posted by lilibat
I am just doing leather armor which isn't that heavy.
In any leather hard enough to count as armor a thin prehensile appendage isn't going to remain prehensile.
Now, a light chain (as in, transparent anti-saber weave, not dense version) over thin leather (just enough to stop chafing) is much better than nothing, easy to form as a tube or even wrapping ("locked" with wire through rings), and will remain somewhat flexible.
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
It would depend on vulnerability. Are there major arteries in the tail that would make losing it lethal?
It's extension of the spine. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2015 : 00:00:04
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Some creatures can lose a tail, though, as a defense mechanism. I've seen it myself -- I once caught a lizard by the tail, it wiggled a bit, and then the lizard was gone, and I had a twitching tail in my hand. This freaked me out; I was only like 10 at the time.
I've also seen more than one lizard, locally, that was regrowing its tail after having lost it. |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2015 : 01:11:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Some creatures can lose a tail, though, as a defense mechanism. I've seen it myself -- I once caught a lizard by the tail, it wiggled a bit, and then the lizard was gone, and I had a twitching tail in my hand. This freaked me out; I was only like 10 at the time.
I've also seen more than one lizard, locally, that was regrowing its tail after having lost it.
Yep. And cats and dogs can function and fight with their tail cut off.
I'm not saying it would not be painful. But having an uncovered tail also has its benefits. If the tail is sensitive to touch, you have essentially an extended arm behind you that can swish about and let you know how the terrian is going and heighten situational awareness. You might be inhibiting that awareness with armor. You might also throw off the balence, but I'd say proficiency in the armor would compensate for that. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2015 : 01:33:44
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Silk has been used as armor as well. Clearly not much for damage reduction, however it was reported to allow less damage if hit.
In the grand scheme of things armor is designed to reduce damage when hit to allow to hit back.
The front tends to need the best protection, then vital organs (The trunk), and then the limbs (Neck and head of course most important there). The tail clearly could be the last target of even a back stabber. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 25 Apr 2015 01:34:19 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2015 : 01:21:04
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| Tiefling tail flesh appears - on the artwork - to be somewhat resilient. Perhaps leather armour wouldn't have a lot of value. Perhaps chain would be too heavy and make too much noise. Tieflings might just like to keep the tails naked, just as humans typically prefer to keep their faces and hands uncovered, even a layer of simple cloth might feel unnatural and confining. Besides, most tieflings have a bit of a defiant temperament, they might like to call attention to their fiendish traits when dealing with other races, they might feel a need to display these traits when dealing with their own kind. |
[/Ayrik] |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2015 : 08:53:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Some creatures can lose a tail, though, as a defense mechanism. [...]
I've also seen more than one lizard, locally, that was regrowing its tail after having lost it.
True, but it's not that simple. There are a lot of adaptations involved - breakaway notches on the bone, blood vessel constriction, etc. At least some species can't do it until they are adult. Even then, not all lizards can regrow tails after autotomy (still better than being eaten, of course).
IIRC, those who can, regenerate only after the lizard did it - that is, tail simply sliced or bitten off won't regenerate. Unless only its tip was lost, and the lizard is left with enough muscles to perform proper autotomy later.
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Tiefling tail flesh appears - on the artwork - to be somewhat resilient. Perhaps leather armour wouldn't have a lot of value.
Leather armour wouldn't have a lot of value because the free tail is not very vulnerable to impact or stabbing, but mostly to cutting, and leather is not good against blades.
quote:
Perhaps chain would be too heavy and make too much noise.
Again, sparse weaves (like so gusari, though with big enough rings, even European 4:1) can be very light and more flexible than thick clothing. Even if it's any good only against slicing, in this case it's enough.
Noise is not always a problem; even then, it's obviously much easier to weave some lace through something like this (with slightly bigger rings) than mess with more dense maille link by link.
quote:
Tieflings might just like to keep the tails naked, just as humans typically prefer to keep their faces and hands uncovered, even a layer of simple cloth might feel unnatural and confining.
Gloves are a good benchmark for comparison, yes.
Most people won't wear them unless they know warmth or protection is an issue. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Riley37
Acolyte
USA
35 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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DandelionClock
Seeker
67 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 16:39:04
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Pics, yes please!
When it comes to the tail, has that ever really been thought through or is adding a tail mentioned for cosmetic reasons and then, never again? Like, it won't help or hurt, it's just supposed to look otherworldly. You are the first I see put this question out.
I've asked in another forum once how horned tieflings sleep. It was then worked out that rams rest on their chins, or prop up their heads a bit, but someone with a humanoid skeleton might nbeed a good chiropractic after that, so...
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ErinMEvans
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2015 : 21:27:00
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quote:
Originally posted by DandelionClock
Pics, yes please!
When it comes to the tail, has that ever really been thought through or is adding a tail mentioned for cosmetic reasons and then, never again? Like, it won't help or hurt, it's just supposed to look otherworldly. You are the first I see put this question out.
I've asked in another forum once how horned tieflings sleep. It was then worked out that rams rest on their chins, or prop up their heads a bit, but someone with a humanoid skeleton might nbeed a good chiropractic after that, so...
I have spent an inordinate amount of time thinking about how Asmodean tieflings sleep, actually! Which included donning some costume horns and trying out some things.
1. On their back, with some kind of headrest/stiff pillow at the base of the skull. Doesn't sound comfy, but this is how Ancient Egyptians slept for thousands of years.
2. On the side/stomach, resting on the curve of the horn that goes around the temple. Easier with a pillow.
3. Theoretically, fully on the stomach, with a pillow/roll under the forehead and chin/neck.
4. Possibly, with the horns curving backwards off an edge, although this came up in
Fire in the Blood for non-sleeping reasons (wherein it was also specified that if Farideh slept on her back without careful support, she would absolutely gouge the featherbed)
One thing's for sure: I don't think they can toss and turn much without waking themselves up because they got their horns snagged on something.
(As for the armor, 1) I think you're talking about some pretty tough skin, 2) the tail is both flexible and moves unintentionally. Lot of excellent suggestions along those lines here. I would expect tieflings who see heavy combat probably have frequently stumpy tails or set aside a decent percentage of their loot for healing spells. :p) |
www.slushlush.com |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2015 : 11:23:59
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| Depending on wether they need it for balancing or not they could just hide it under their normal armor at their back |
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lilibat
Acolyte
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2015 : 00:48:01
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Back is the only way I can lay down with the horns on.
I am getting fairly close to getting sneak peek pictures. I hope to have something next week... if my wrist will cooperate. |
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DandelionClock
Seeker
67 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2015 : 15:12:26
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| Yeah, on my back and slightly propped up is the only way I can imagine, too. But I know cultures where cushions aren't used that much and people learn to sleep with their head propped up on one arm/ elbow to the ground, and other positions we can't really imagine to fall asleep in in the first place. So maybe that would be a possibility; propped up or on one horn sounds impossible for us, but who knows. |
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lilibat
Acolyte
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2015 : 03:50:18
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| Oh and if anyone wants to see progress so far, at least on the bits and pieces, you can check my deviant art & the journal has some progress shots. http://lilibat.deviantart.com/ |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2015 : 05:48:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Riley37
Tieflings could get weapon proficiency with a prosthetic Thagomizer!
Mounting that on a humanoid looks more accident-prone than nunchucks, though still marginally safer than those.
I wonder if a tiefling could mount a wand on the tail, though. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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DandelionClock
Seeker
67 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2015 : 16:42:21
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quote:
Originally posted by lilibat
Oh and if anyone wants to see progress so far, at least on the bits and pieces, you can check my deviant art & the journal has some progress shots. http://lilibat.deviantart.com/
That's amazing! |
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ErinMEvans
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2015 : 20:52:50
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quote:
Originally posted by lilibat
Back is the only way I can lay down with the horns on.
I am getting fairly close to getting sneak peek pictures. I hope to have something next week... if my wrist will cooperate.
The horns in your link look way nicer than my crummy Halloween/charity game set. Very cool! |
www.slushlush.com |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2015 : 04:39:21
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Riley37
Tieflings could get weapon proficiency with a prosthetic Thagomizer!
Mounting that on a humanoid looks more accident-prone than nunchucks, though still marginally safer than those.
I wonder if a tiefling could mount a wand on the tail, though.
In Pathfinder, tieflings can by use of a trait and a feat, become able to use their tails with limited (with one) or true (with both) prehensile ability. Ultimately they can hold and manipulate small objects, hold a wand, use skills that require their hands if their hands are bound, etc. All courtesy of the tiefling chapter in Paizo's 'Advanced Race Guide' (which was one of two chapters I contributed to the book). 'Blood of Fiends' is also an amazing book that includes variant specific bloodlines for tieflings to reflect specific fiendish heritage (such as 4e's all diabolic all the time style) versus the generic planar mutts of mixed heritage from Planescape.
But what use is using your prehensile tail to hold a wand when you can use it to hold your fancy cigarette while your hands are busy with a spellbook and a mug of ale? [url=http://arcanofox.foxpaws.net/il%27setsya%20c.jpg]My current tiefling PC, albeit very much a 2e/3e/Planescape/Pathfinder style tiefling[/url] |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Edited by - Shemmy on 12 May 2015 05:15:21 |
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lilibat
Acolyte
USA
20 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2015 : 20:44:07
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A "gamer geek goth girl" interested in epoxy, fire, metal, crystal and an anvil. And that's some fine metalwork, I admit the jewellery's not really my thing - but I really do like your bracers, pauldrons/epaulets, warlock greaves, and that <ahem> armoured corset thingy. That druid crown and the steampunk goggles are neato, too. Do you do all your own metalwork?
Ah, I think I'm in love! And just so you know, I bathe at least twice a year (whether I need to or not), unlike most other barbarians. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 24 May 2015 20:45:46 |
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lilibat
Acolyte
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2015 : 09:17:11
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| I do metalwork, sewing & leatherwork. My husband bathes a little more than that. |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
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lilibat
Acolyte
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2015 : 21:30:32
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| I see what you mean about the eyepatch but it has to go over my horns which is an unusual way to wear it. That makes it sit at a slightly odd angle but it's making contact everywhere it's supposed to and it doesn't look as odd from other angles, at least not to me. Unfortunately I HAVE to wear it because I can't see out of the white contacts well enough not to. It's actuall made of mesh and I can wear a regular contact under it and not walk into things any more than usual. Totally not an optional accessory since I refuse to just go with humnan eyes or even other contact styles. The white isn't even really correct but it's as close as I am going to get without spending a couple grand on real custom lenses that I probably couldn't see out of at all. |
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Tiefling Tail armor?
