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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2019 : 15:14:38
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I think the Earthmother was identified with Chauntea, as it was seen as an attempt to integrate the Moonshae Isles with the rest of Toril, and to "streamline" the pantheon.
This was further attempted to be cemented, by having Chauntea in past - as Jannath - be more similar to the Earthmother, up to Jannath being known as "the Earthmother".
Our of this though, I started to think maybe Jannath is the Earthmother (whose cult was present in Netheril, which could explain some things), while Chauntea is another being, possibly Othea.
Also continuing about Eladrin - I don't think LeShay (or another group of Drine) influencing/changing Arborea to have petitioners become Eladrin, is outright soul stealing, rather changing the mechanisms of the plane if for the drine's own good and "survival' of their species in their own way, but still "mortally gray" enough to fit the LeShay. When one thinks about is also not different from (if I remember right) non-elven petitioners of the Seldarine being given an elven forms on Arvandor.
There is also the fact it seems the Seelie Court/Faerie Demiplane in 2E wandered between Arborea, Ysgard, and the Beastlands, and the Unseelie court in Pandemonium, and there were described as dwelling the Fey of the Seelie and Unselie courts.
Although to be clear, I personally have the Faerie/Feywild Fey/Elven Eladrin and planar Eladrin as separate, but related beings.
[EDIT]
Some interpreted the stories of Changelings, as abducted by Fairies children overtime themselves become Fairies, like in Changeling: The Lost.
There is something similar in Slavic folklore, with Rusalkas and Vile being incarnated souls of young women or girls (ie Rusalkas from virgins that weren't married, or drowned, while Vila from unbaptized girls), although this is connected with the (pagan) Slavic belief in reincarnation. |
Edited by - Baltas on 01 Jul 2019 15:26:00 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2019 : 20:08:25
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I actually quite like it - it makes more sense than Netherese knowing the Earthmother, but her Jannath's faith influencing the Talfir who came to the Moonshae Isles, works very well.
With the Changelings, Rusalkas and Veelas, I mentioned them to set precedence for Eladrin, but I really like your idea/take on it with Kazgoroth - especially that it uses a version George's Krashos idea of Northmen coming from Moonshae Isles, although here it being an important (in unlucky) landing point for them from which they (or a portion of Northmen) spread to Amn and Tethyr, and the Sword Coast, to Sword Coast North (which connects to their classic origins.) |
Edited by - Baltas on 01 Jul 2019 20:16:57 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2019 : 20:51:16
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Thank you for the approval, its good to know at least someone likes it. I try to include at least a nod to all the lore (unless its truly dire in quality), George i believe got his idea from a quote from the 1e campaign setting (or a quote from Ed) so i tried to obey that first. I picture the northmen arriving on the Moonshaes, then heading south and gradually moving north, each time abandoning former holds entirely or being driven away, so almost nothing of their more southerly holdings remain until they reach the wilderness of the Sword Coast North.
My latest quandary however is what to do with the Kendricks. One of the novels mentions that the Kendricks ruled only Corwell for 200 years. I have found nothing to prove or disprove that the Kendrick line existed further back than 200 years.
So i still have two options, either i invent a kingdom that the Kendrick line also ruled and that rule ended (with the kingdom being absorbed or destroyed) 200 years ago thus fulfilling the ruling only Corwell for 200 years. Or the Kendrick line did not come into existence as a royal dynasty until 200 years ago.
I've checked the lineages and nothing mentions an old kendrick, i checked the history entries and it mentions King Durnhal and Queen Morgan but no indication of a family name. I checked all the sources i can find and nothing Kendrick before Bryon Kendrick
The only spurious link i can make is the picture in Dragon 362 of Prince Ketheryl capturing King Durnhal is that he carried a cloak with the emblem of a wolf's head on it (or a bears head, either could be the symbol of the Kendrick dynasty), however, i've already made King Durnhal of a different dynasty to the Kendricks and his death ended that dynasty (although some kin survived and changed their name to Pontswain - hence a claim to royal blood).
So anyone got any thoughts or lore i've missed that proves or disproves the existence of the Kendricks and solves the problem. |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2019 : 13:24:47
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Well, I found is the description of the monarchies of the Ffolk in the Grand History of the Realms - The Moonshaes in Dragon #362, stating the Kendrick are relatives/descendants of the Cymrych Dynasty/family, along with several other royal families. With the name Kendrick being a corruption/alternate spelling and pronunciation of Cymrych:
quote: The Legacy of Cymrych Hugh: The war with Kazgaroth in the Year of the Student (201 DR) resulted in the death of most of the ruling families of the Ffolk. Surviving nobles married their daughters to the children and grandchildren of Cymrych Hugh to establish a connection to the royal bloodline. Within a few short generations, every ruling family in the Moonshaes adopted the surname Cymrych. With High King Tanner's death and the loss of the Sword of Cymrych Hugh in the Year of the Animated Armor (944 DR), the noble families begin to distance themselves from the legendary (or imaginary some would say) Cymrych Hugh. Each family took to spelling and pronouncing their particular names differently. Thus, the bloodline of Cymrych diverged into the royal lines of Carrathal, Kendrick, Selkirk, Cambridge, Kimball, Cyric, Riker, and Kincaid.
Although this makes it possible the Kendrick family might had a different spelling, or even being a branch of Carrathal, Selkirk, Cambridge, Kimball, Cyric, Riker, or Kincaid families.
Also, about the LeShay and Primal Elves - after (finally) buying and reading Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes, I discovered that book established all elves and most fey and seemingly nearly Archfey are described be descended from Corellon via the the Primal Elves that sprouted from his blood.
Among this these Primal Elves though, curiously were the first members of Seldarine, who were the greatest of the Primal Elves (curiously, including here Zandilar the Dancer as one of the proto-Seldarine).
It also mentions the Eladrin are closer to the Primal Elves, and the as mentioned Moonshae Isles Regional Guide, the LeShay are the closest among the Eladrin to the Primal Elves.
As I mentioned though, the all elves and most or all fey and Archfey being descended from Corellon Larethian, might be just seen as a version of the reall events thought up, or at least interpreted by Corellon's worshipers, which spread to the vast majority of the elven population. |
Edited by - Baltas on 03 Jul 2019 13:47:28 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2019 : 14:58:10
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Well, I personally would say the Kendrick line existed, but possibly under another name, or branched out from the previously mentioned families
The Carrathal line did technically exist for a longer time, just named Cymrych, as the other families also named themselves such, before changing their names spelling and pronunciation.
Although one could have just the Kendrick line as fairly minor line of Cymrych Hugh's descendants, till recently, or branched of from another Cymrych line fairly recently.
Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes actually kinda makes exactly Corellon one of the most powerful being in the planes, but I myself (as suggested) would chalk it up to Mordenkainen researching very biased sources (as the thing is, Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes is actually in universe written by Mordenkainen, so by nature biased, and very possibly flawed) , as I also have Corellon as you suggested a powerful Fey Lord who became a Greater God, but just that.
Especially that it's implied Titania, the Queen of Air and Darkness, Cegilune, Oberon and especially Emmantiensien are at least implied to predate Corellon - especially Emmantiensien, who is described as being "timeless", having "always existed", or even "having no origin in time".
Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes actually (possibly intentionally) gives a window of possibility that the stories about Corellon being ancestor of all things elven is not true - as it mentions 2 possible origins for Ghaunadaur - one it/him being another of Primal Elves spawned from Corellon, and other Ghaunadaur being an alien being a being predating Corellon, and most other things (which is generally Ghaunadaur backstory in other sources.)
[EDIT]
Although to be clear, I find the idea of "Primal Elves" very interesting and useful, with the exception of the fact they were born from Corellon's blood. |
Edited by - Baltas on 03 Jul 2019 17:42:27 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6638 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2019 : 22:50:05
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quote: Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Still no explanation as to who or what the prophet is, I doubt he will feature in the druid queen novel. All I have on him is that he is clearly insane, every time he is killed he returns a short time later as himself and thus far appears only on alaron
You’ll find out when the twist is revealed.
— George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe
USA
275 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2019 : 11:29:22
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Are they all mature? Or are they hanging with sire/dam till they strike out on their own? |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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Topic |
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