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 Compiled locations of all known existing mythals
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Cards77
Senior Scribe

USA
745 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2014 :  22:26:17  Show Profile Send Cards77 a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I was reading Lost Empires of Faerun and came across this list on page 45 of all the mythals that still exist as of 3e(?) I guess.

I did search for this and couldn't find more than a handful of posts discussing one or two mythals. Though a compiled list may be handy for someone.

I have no clue where most of these are geographically and was wondering if we could compile their locations and what we know about what's left here (was it a city? Status of the mythal?).

I'm viewing this as pre-4th edition around 1372ish

Mythals still exist in a number of places. Those raised by
elven high mages include Myth Drannor, Myth Glaurach, the
Elven Court, Myth Adofhaer, Myth Dyraalis, Myth Nantar,
Myth Ondath, Myth Rhynn, and Myth Unnohyr, as well as
others now lost to history. Mythals such as those at Shoonach’s
Imperial Mount, Myth Iiscar, and Myth Lharast have also been
crafted by non-elves using epic spells.


Myth Drannor - Cormanthor
Myth Glaurach - High Forest
The Elven Court - Cormanthor
Myth Adofhaer - Lost city of Silvaundae High Forest
Myth Dyraalis - Tethyr/Calimnshan
Myth Nantar - Underwater city (Sea of Fallen Stars)
Myth Ondath - Moonsea North
Myth Valorthae - Methwood
Myth Rhynn - Tethyr/Calimnshan
Myth Unnohyr - Tethyr/Calimnshan
Shoonach’s Imperial Mount - no clue
Myth Iiscar - Lantan
Myth Lharast - Amn
Myth Tarranvar - the Yuirwood.
Evereska - Near the High Moor
Silverymoon - a "wizard mythal"


I will continue to work on this as I get replies/do more research. I"m also interested in having a summary about each mythal that describes what it WAS, and what is currently there if anything.

Edited by - Cards77 on 09 Jul 2015 01:04:57

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 22 Oct 2014 :  22:48:06  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Elven Court is in Cormanthyr. Myth Nantar is in the Sea of Fallen Stars. You can read about Myth Glaurach here.

Shoonach and Myth Lharast are in the Lands of Intrigue area, and are in either that boxed set or the Empires of the Shining Sea one.

That's what I recall of the top of my head... I think the Cormanthyr sourcebook has a list in there, too.

Also, in 1E and 2E, Silverymoon was protected by layers of wards; in 3E, it was a mythal -- despite prior lore indicating that the mythal planned for Silverymoon was never raised. There are a couple of mythals in Waterdeep, as well -- one that keeps out dragons, unless the weilder of Ahghairon's staff lets them in, and another that keeps the city from collapsing into the miles of tunnels and delvings under the city.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 22 Oct 2014 22:48:25
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6641 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2014 :  01:22:28  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
Myth Drannor - I think we all know where this is.
Myth Glaurach - Not sure...High Forest somewhere prior capital of Earlann?
The Elven Court - Evermeet?
Myth Adofhaer - No clue
Myth Dyraalis - no clue
Myth Nantar - no clue
Myth Ondath - no clue
Myth Rhynn - no clue
Myth Unnohyr - no clue
Shoonach’s Imperial Mount - no clue
Myth Iiscar - no clue
Myth Lharast - no clue



Myth Rhynn, Myth Dyraalis and Myth Unnohyr are in Tethyr and Calimshan - see "Lands of Intrigue" and "Empires of the Shining Sea".

Myth Iiscar is in Lantan - see "Ruins of Myth Drannor" boxed set for its first mention in the lore.

Myth Adofhaer is the lost mythal city of Siluvanede in the High Forest - see "Lost Empires of Faerun" (and Eric Boyd's hard drive).

Myth Ondath is in the Moonsea North - see "Volo's Guide to All Things Magical": write-up of the Gatekeeper's Crystal.

Evereska has a mythal also.

-- George Krashos


"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6641 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2014 :  15:59:57  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Myth Nantar is in the Sea of Fallen Stars (underwater) and Myth Lharast is in Amn as noted by Wooly above.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 23 Oct 2014 16:00:29
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
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Posted - 23 Oct 2014 :  16:02:52  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I see that you edited your first post, Cards, but you overlooked some info... Myth Nantar is an undersea city, detailed in the Sea of Fallen Stars sourcebook.

Myth Lharast is in the Lands of Intrigue boxed set, so it's also in the Tethyr/Calimshan area.

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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
1098 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2014 :  16:25:30  Show Profile  Visit Brian R. James's Homepage Send Brian R. James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Myth Valorthae (located in the Methwood) - from the map of Chessenta in Dungeon 178

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Cards77
Senior Scribe

USA
745 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2015 :  00:42:11  Show Profile Send Cards77 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Is there anything else anyone can think of, or how I could flesh out these mythal descriptions more? Thanks.
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TBeholder
Great Reader

2378 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2015 :  02:36:48  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77


Mythals still exist in a number of places. Those raised by
elven high mages include Myth Drannor, Myth Glaurach, the
Elven Court, Myth Adofhaer, Myth Dyraalis, Myth Nantar,
Myth Ondath, Myth Rhynn, and Myth Unnohyr, as well as
others now lost to history. Mythals such as those at Shoonach’s
Imperial Mount, Myth Iiscar, and Myth Lharast have also been
crafted by non-elves using epic spells.


According to Cormanthyr, Myth Drannor was the first wizard mythal.
High Mages were involved as secondary casters, but the central caster was Mythantor himself, who lost the ability to do HM and designed 10-level spell (technically, 3 component spells: one from the central caster, two collectively cast by helpers) to emulate "the real thing" - which required participation of Chosen of Mystra and/or actual High Mages to stabilize it anyway.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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Cards77
Senior Scribe

USA
745 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2015 :  04:01:27  Show Profile Send Cards77 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder

quote:
Originally posted by Cards77


Mythals still exist in a number of places. Those raised by
elven high mages include Myth Drannor, Myth Glaurach, the
Elven Court, Myth Adofhaer, Myth Dyraalis, Myth Nantar,
Myth Ondath, Myth Rhynn, and Myth Unnohyr, as well as
others now lost to history. Mythals such as those at Shoonach’s
Imperial Mount, Myth Iiscar, and Myth Lharast have also been
crafted by non-elves using epic spells.


According to Cormanthyr, Myth Drannor was the first wizard mythal.
High Mages were involved as secondary casters, but the central caster was Mythantor himself, who lost the ability to do HM and designed 10-level spell (technically, 3 component spells: one from the central caster, two collectively cast by helpers) to emulate "the real thing" - which required participation of Chosen of Mystra and/or actual High Mages to stabilize it anyway.



Well..ermm. In Lost Empires of Faerun it is listed as a True Mythal on page 45. The reason being there is no evidence that Mythantor couldn't use elven high magic, (or use a 9th level spell as an "epic" spell) epic magic was free of Mystra's Ban page 43, after the death of Mystryl. In Elves of Evermeet there are rules for using elven high magic after Mystryl's death.

George care to weigh in?

I'm not as concerned about categorizing every thing here as either "true" or "wizard" as I am about describing where they are, and our collective knowledge regarding what effects they were created with and their current status as of the time frame specified.

Edited by - Cards77 on 08 Jul 2015 04:03:37
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6641 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2015 :  06:55:05  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can weight in, but you have to understand that you are comparing 2E and 3E sources, which do not gel without some realmslore tweaking to account for changes in the D&D rules.

The "Cormanthyr" accessory provided a unique system for the casting of High Magic, which differed from what had previously been presented in "Elves of Evermeet" and didn't conform with passsages from the "Ruins of Myth Drannor" boxed set.

With the advent of 3E and epic rules, "Lost Empires of Faerun" attempted to smooth over the inconsistencies that existed by providing an explanation that High Magic was epic magic and now not a separate type of spellcasting, but rather a descriptor of a type of epic magic. In other words, elves casting particular epic spells of a communal caster nature were casting "High Magic", but not doing anything different to a group of humans casting the same spell if they could replicate it or get their hands on a copy.

This explanation in my view was a welcome one, for it assisted in explaining away some of the inconsistencies in mythal lore that had sprung out of some earlier 2E work, Myth Lharast being a case in point.

So in simple terms, if looking through the oily lens of the 2E rules, the mythal at Myth Drannor was a "wizardly mythal" and a 10th level spell (aided and abetted by the intervention of Mystra herself), not "High Magic".

In 3E terms, the mythal at Myth Drannor was a "true mythal" because it was cast by elves and replicated what the High Mages would have done if they'd wanted to cast it themselves. Mythanthar was not a High Mage, but he was an epic spellcaster and hence could use the 'mythal' seed to create a mythal over Myth Drannor.

As such, the concept of what a "true mythal" is/was altered in the change from the 2E rules to the 3E rules. A true mythal in 2E was one created by the High Magic variant spellcasting system showcased in the "Cormanthyr" accessory. In 3E, a "true mythal" was a mythal created by elves using epic spellcasting, because elves made the best mythals. The transition to 3E saw "High Magic" become a term of nomenclature, not a variant form of spellcasting and also paved the way for authors like Rich Baker to showcase variant types of "High Magic" as he did in his Farthest Reach novels.

I grant you that the 2E version made "High Magic" a bit more special, but the 3E approach gave it more in game flexibilty and more opportunities to craft realmslore to complement the concept, IMO.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 08 Jul 2015 06:56:27
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2015 :  08:38:32  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
High Magic being the same as Epic Magic is how i've always viewed it. It works with Netheril as well, the Netherese used 10th, 11th, 12th level spells because they had predefined components a pre defined outcome, there was little chance of any backlash if the casting went wrong, and they were easier to research (in fact you could probably just steal the spell from your rival).

Compare that to Epic Magic where each ritual is essentially unique, if you get it wrong then you can die, they are horrifically complicated and often require multiple casters working in concert, and most of all they are very time consuming. Therefore the Netherese abandoned the Epic Magic of the elves in favour of the higher level spells.

Of course i extended Epic magic to be the same as rituals of 4e so that anyone can cast a ritual, they just have to understand the theory and nature of magic (represented by a skill check). These rituals can be made to imitate existing spells, and they can be altered on the fly to have slightly different effects (thats my explanation for how Elminster has his custom magic that no one else has, he makes it up as he goes along).



Oh and don't forget Myth Tarranvar in the Yuirwood.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2015 :  04:46:33  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The two biggest issues I had with mythals were the way Silverymoon went from not having a mythal to having one, and the addition of keystones for mythals. Keystones do make for an okay plot device, but I don't think they were anywhere close to the best approach.

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Duneth Despana
Learned Scribe

Belgium
273 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2015 :  13:54:22  Show Profile Send Duneth Despana a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mythal on the banks of 'broad, trout-filled river' that runs east to west or west to east (my bet is on the Delimbyir) that fell to a flight of dragons mentioned in Evermeet chapter 14. I don't know if Elaine Cunningham or Ed Greenwood ever gave a name or any more detail to this city.

« There is no overriding « epic » in the Realms, but rather a large number of stories, adventures, and encounters going on all the time. [...]. Each creative mind adds to the base, creating, defining, and making their contribution to the rich diversity of the Realms. [...]. But Ed built the stage upon which all the plays are presented. Thanks Ed. » -FR Comic no.1

Edited by - Duneth Despana on 31 Aug 2015 13:56:13
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althen artren
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USA
780 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2015 :  04:39:31  Show Profile Send althen artren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very small mythal in the Archwood: Dungeon 121-Secret of the Archwood.
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