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Austin the Archmage
Seeker
USA
57 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Dec 2014 : 01:52:32
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| Tell me, what is Azuth's status? I though that he was destroyed by Asmodeus to fuel his ascension to godhood, so the fact that he's still around is news to me. |
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ErinMEvans
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2014 : 02:30:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Austin the Archmage
Tell me, what is Azuth's status? I though that he was destroyed by Asmodeus to fuel his ascension to godhood, so the fact that he's still around is news to me.
The situation with Azuth and Asmodeus during the Sundering is the high-level focus of this series. As such, I'm not going to reveal too much.
You can see from this thread that someone who seems to be the Chosen of Azuth has appeared. Other weirdness has accumulated as well which people have speculated on. More information is contained in The Adversary and Fire in the Blood so I'd say read those, or comb their threads. |
www.slushlush.com |
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Schreckstoff
Seeker
53 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2014 : 03:11:57
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quote:
Originally posted by ErinMEvans
Fair warning all: I'm going to keep writing about these characters for the last two books. There will still be Asmodean tieflings and warlocks and young women and people who think about their internal emotional states and their relationships with other people. There will also be dragonborn and fiends. You have been warned.
Wouldn't want it any other way. Farideh's saga has been one of the most refreshing reads in Forgotten Realms for a long time.
I've been outspoken on my dislike of Brin before and I'm still not even lukewarm when it comes to him but I'm deeply engrossed in all the other characters and I really hope this book wasn't the last we've heard and seen of Raedra. |
Complete Drizzt Saga - Check
In love with Farideh's Saga - Check
Disappointed at Erevis' Saga's apparent end - Check |
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Swordsage
Learned Scribe
149 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2014 : 04:59:58
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I'm a couple of chapters into the latest novel as I'm a Cormyr fan and the teaser chapters made me put down my hard-earned.
What I'm struggling with however is that it seems like being a tiefling is 'no big deal' and that having one access the royal family, even at the demand of a princess, appears to be accompanied with little concern or precautions for safety. I can't imagine the king or the current Mage Royal would be unaware of what is happening and yet if they are, allow it to occur with no thought of securing the princess from potential harm. She's bound to the Overlord of the Hells but she gets access to the royal family as if she's the local seamstress.
I struggled to suspend my disbelief in the circumstances.
The Swordsage |
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ErinMEvans
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2015 : 21:29:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Swordsage
I'm a couple of chapters into the latest novel as I'm a Cormyr fan and the teaser chapters made me put down my hard-earned.
What I'm struggling with however is that it seems like being a tiefling is 'no big deal' and that having one access the royal family, even at the demand of a princess, appears to be accompanied with little concern or precautions for safety. I can't imagine the king or the current Mage Royal would be unaware of what is happening and yet if they are, allow it to occur with no thought of securing the princess from potential harm. She's bound to the Overlord of the Hells but she gets access to the royal family as if she's the local seamstress.
I struggled to suspend my disbelief in the circumstances.
The Swordsage
Hi Swordsage,
I have an answer for you, but it's really involved. The short version is that I think you should go back and read those chapters again, because that's not really what's happening.
1. Farideh has been in Suzail for several months, living in the home of the princess’s fiancé who is also an Obarskyr in all but the most technical senses at this point. 100% the war wizards have been checking up on her and Havilar, hence the restrictions she has with Lorcan (can't come in the house, can't come without a disguise, etc.). Are they pushing their luck? Yes, but you’re still talking about the likelihood of a war wizard spying them in the moment that Lorcan activates the portal. Pretty slim, as there are a lot more important things to do than spying.
2. Before Farideh even so much as looks at Raedra, she’s put through a thorough series of tests by three war wizards. They know exactly what she’s capable of and you know what? It’s not really that much. For all Farideh's managed, I think one of her spells was Level 6 in 4E, and while I don’t recall off the top of my head what you had to have to be a war wizard, I strongly suspect it was a paragon path, so Level 11 (noted only for the level discrepancy; I don't know what they'd be in other editions, but it would be similar). Coupled with the fact she doesn’t ping a detect evil spell, and she drops down Ganrahast et al’s list of concerns. Especially when you consider that she’s brought to Raedra after she found a traitor that they missed.
3. “It’s absurd that she didn’t trigger the detect evil spell!” you might be saying (or someone might be saying). But remember:
- Farideh’s not evil. There’s nothing in the rules that says being a warlock makes you automatically evil, and she’s not used her connections to work evil acts. You don’t have to like it, but that agrees with current continuity.
- Farideh and Havilar both have heavy protection spells on them that obscure various detection magics.
- Asmodeus doesn’t seem keen on people finding out that she’s his Chosen. It’s almost as if there were something else going on here. Hint. Hint.
4. All that aside, when she does come into Raedra’s presence, the princess is incredibly protected. Two war wizards and guards against a warlock who’s done nothing to show herself as a threat? Plus the highknights she’s mentioned are frequently watching her just out of sight? Plus the fact that there’s probably more war wizards watching her that she doesn’t know about? Say Farideh is evil and she decides to eldritch blast Raedra: she would be hit by multiple prepared spells long before it hit the shield that is almost certainly protecting the princess*
5. As for why Ganrahast himself isn’t there in that moment, remember he has an enormous to-do list here: - don’t lose war
- keep King Foril safe
- figure out how to wake Prince Baerovus
- find Prince Irvel
- find out what Sulue’s plans were
- keep Raedra and Ospra safe
- keep an eye on Erzoured
- also keep Erzoured safe because he's still an Obarskyr, awful or not
- keep an eye on nobles
[*]run war wizards, etc., etc.
When you get down to trying to keep Raedra from taking guests—and good luck, buddy, she’s not a child—I think even Ganrahast is going to accept that it’s not a threat. While he still feels guilty over not being able to save Foril’s wife, Princess Jemra, in the assassination attempt on Azoun V, there's a point where he's going to have run through everything he can do, and try something else.
6. Additionally, keep in mind that Princess Raedra is a grown woman with a mind of her own. There's a point where ordering her to do things causes more harm than good.
7. Lastly, if you are of the opinion that tieflings should always inspire intense mistrust and panic, then I probably can’t convince you to give my book(s) a chance. But what you see here is the canonical situation in the current Realms: if you’re reasonably worldly, you know tieflings aren’t devils and that’s not a reason to flip out. At this juncture in Suzail, it’s considered kind of a racy fashion among the young and trying-to-look-young to have a tiefling sidepiece. As such, there are a higher proportion of them in the city than in years past and more people are going to be less wigged out (although they're certainly something to stare at and the older nobles are probably largely aghast at what their children and grandchildren are getting up to in the clubs). Given the fact that Farideh's checked out, the biggest threat to Raedra really is what people will say. And so she's disguised.
I’ll close with the note that this book was extensively vetted and fact-checked, not just by WotC’s internal people, but also by the inestimable Brian Cortijo/Garen Thal and Ed himself. I made sure I wrote a book that made both of them happy—that was intrinsic to making this book “a success” in my eyes.
So if you--general you, readers--think you have found a continuity error, I do want to hear it, but I probably have an answer. I thought about this a lot, researched a lot, and I found people who knew their stuff to make sure I was right. I hope this helps you, Swordsage, give the book another chance, but I understand there are elements that aren’t everyone’s cup of tea.
*In the event someone brings up the fact that she gets hit in the fencing scene, let me point out: that’s different. Raedra would have to be hit in order to fence, but I’m sure those magical protections are still in play. Pelia is there for a reason.
Best,
Erin
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www.slushlush.com |
Edited by - ErinMEvans on 02 Jan 2015 21:32:59 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2015 : 23:04:21
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Oh, Erin, nicely said.
I burst out laughing before the end of Ganrahast's to-do list.
It shouldn't need saying, but you get the Realms, lady! I know Ed happily re-reads your books and they're by his bedside so he can easily do so, and I love them too.
Please just keep on writing, and I'll keep on reading. 
love,
THO |
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Swordsage
Learned Scribe
149 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2015 : 04:52:51
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Hi Ms Evans
I'm not sure my comment merited that kind of response. I'm sure you have much better things to do. It was just a comment though, not a criticism of your whole novel or character line.
I realise in hindsight that I'm used to Ed Greenwood writing about Cormyr. You're not him and don't write like him (and that's as it should be) but I realise now that what I was expecting was a small, two paragraph cut away with the Mage Royal turning to the king or to a Highknight or a group of senior War Wizards and saying something along the line of "she appears to be safe, watch her anyway and also watch Raedra who's not as smart as she thinks she is". That's the Cormyr I'm used to reading about, but it appears that all that happened off stage. Might be a reflection on me as a reader. Looking at it, it appears it is. Have to look for more nuance.
Enjoying the book despite myself and my predilections.
The Swordsage |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2015 : 16:12:25
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| Erin, I read somewhere that your next book comes out in 2016. Is that true? I don't want to wait that long lol. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2015 : 17:52:27
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Erin, I read somewhere that your next book comes out in 2016. Is that true? I don't want to wait that long lol.
I second that. |
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ErinMEvans
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2015 : 22:30:44
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Sorry. I'm a little swamped. In order:
Schreckstoff and The Hooded One: Thank you much for those kind words.
Swordsage: Sorry. >_< I didn't mean to flood you. As someone (Caolin?) referenced upthread for themselves, I don't have a whole lot of people to talk about this stuff with, but I immerse myself in it up to the nose every freaking day. So when it comes to answering questions or correcting misconceptions that might be getting in the way of the story/lore, I don't really have a "low" setting. I just vomit all the research crammed in my head, at as many angles as might possibly be needed. (I think it makes the RPG guys a little skittish. :p) I'm glad you're enjoying a different trip through Cormyr
CorellonsDevout & Caolin: To my knowledge, Ashes of the Tyrant is coming out in Fall of 2015. If it's being held until 2016, I wish someone would tell me because I'd love the extra writing time! |
www.slushlush.com |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2015 : 23:02:22
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| I'm glad it's 2015. I just read somewhere it was 2016 |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Swordsage
Learned Scribe
149 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2015 : 03:13:54
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Okay, I'm looking for nuance and came across the scene on p.162 of the hardcover where King Foril is visiting the unconscious Baerovus. When he is talking to Raedra after Erzoured has left he says to her, "Emvar will be a lucky fellow".
That's a strange thing to say given Emvar is his dead older brother. Is this an indication that Foril is "losing it" or was that an error/typo and it should have been a reference to Aubrin?
The Swordsage |
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ErinMEvans
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2015 : 07:00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Swordsage
Okay, I'm looking for nuance and came across the scene on p.162 of the hardcover where King Foril is visiting the unconscious Baerovus. When he is talking to Raedra after Erzoured has left he says to her, "Emvar will be a lucky fellow".
That's a strange thing to say given Emvar is his dead older brother. Is this an indication that Foril is "losing it" or was that an error/typo and it should have been a reference to Aubrin?
The Swordsage
Foril accidentally calls Brin "Emvar" several times (e.g. in the Griffon Room when they first find out Irvel's missing). Brin bears a strong resemblance to his grandfather, and Foril doted on his older brother. That connection is very present in his mind, which is why Brin's afraid that the legitimization will end up being pushed forward. But on top of that, yeah, Foril's old and he's tired and his mind's not quite what it used to be, so he slips.
EDIT for clarity. |
www.slushlush.com |
Edited by - ErinMEvans on 19 Jan 2015 19:50:41 |
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Entromancer
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2015 : 01:22:48
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| Erin, I'd like to pick your brain on the writing process for the Brimstone Angels characters. How do you approach writing from the perspectives of the tieflings and dragonborn in such a way that someone couldn't shrug any of these off as being interchangeable with humans? |
"...the will is everything. The will to act."--Ra's Al Ghul
"Suffering builds character."--Talia Al Ghul |
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ErinMEvans
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2015 : 18:33:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer
Erin, I'd like to pick your brain on the writing process for the Brimstone Angels characters. How do you approach writing from the perspectives of the tieflings and dragonborn in such a way that someone couldn't shrug any of these off as being interchangeable with humans?
Oh my god: You've basically unleashed the post-Kraken. Gimme a bit. I have many thoughts. |
www.slushlush.com |
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ErinMEvans
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2015 : 19:46:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer
Erin, I'd like to pick your brain on the writing process for the Brimstone Angels characters. How do you approach writing from the perspectives of the tieflings and dragonborn in such a way that someone couldn't shrug any of these off as being interchangeable with humans?
There are four “directions” I think non-human characters ought to be considered from, assuming you want them to be relatable (e.g. if they have a point-of-view within a narrative, they ought to be relatable). To roughly sketch them out with categories I literally just made up:
Internal-Internal: This is who they are on the inside, their hopes and fears and goals and such. Their personality. This is the most “human” part, because again, we’re assuming relatability. Besides, when you’re talking about tieflings and dragonborn and even cambions, you’re talking about races that are part human. You can’t lose sight of that. Specifics here ought to broadly match up to the kinds of specifics you’d give a human character: What does she do to relieve stress? How does he react when a pretty/handsome counterpart flirts? Are they a morning person? Do they like snakes? What would make them barf? Etc.
But the next critical step to consider in terms of a non-human character is how socio-cultural pressures affect their personality.* The pitfall here is the PHB Prototype Trap: making your character The Tiefling or The Dragonborn or The Elf, even, instead of considering them as an individual within their culture/others’ culture. Characters shouldn’t exist solely to show off the PHB summary, you know? They need to have their own story, not just the story of their race.
The Brimstone Angels excerpt placed in the tiefling entry for the 5E PHB summarizes this: Tieflings don’t have a homogenous culture, but it’s fair to say many societies marginalize them in a predictable way and expect bad things from them. So what do you do? Do you fight that perception? Do you embrace it? Do you ignore it and push it all down? Do you happen to live in circumstances where you’re “normal” and you don’t need to think about what it’s like to be a tiefling somewhere else? The pressures on a tiefling in Calimshan aren’t going to be the pressures in Narfell or Impiltur or Aglarond or Neverwinter or Cormyr. Farideh’s grown up in a village full of tieflings who fled their home societies and so she’s been bombarded with a mix of internalized racism and kind of passive defiance. That shapes her.
Dragonborn in Djerad Thymar/Tymanther have most of my focus right now, and they actually have a greater risk of falling into the PHB Prototype Trap, because they do come from a really homogenous culture. The culture of DT is hugely structured. You have a place in a clan, which has a place in the whole of society, and signaling where you fit is a big deal. They wear the clan piercings, they have a strict division between adolescence and adulthood based on whether you’ve served in the Lance Defenders or earned your status weapon. There’s a kind of comfort for someone from this world in seeing these indicators, in knowing before you ever speak who someone is. That’s not a pressure that’s familiar in those terms to North American readers, but we might be familiar with the kind of conforming pressures that mean our outward appearance/dress fits us into a mold.
Someone like Mehen who’s clanless, who has no place in society, really agitates people. WHO ARE YOU EVEN? And that in turn agitates Mehen, because he grew up here. He used to have those same reactions. Being who he is, he kind of shrugs it off and gets more and more angry. On the other hand, someone like Kallan--who grew up in the homesteads raising sheep and became a sellsword--hasn’t really felt much pressure for lacking clan piercings. His society has been his family and maybe some far-flung neighbors who all know him personally as So-and-So's boy. Followed by a life where very few people even know to look for piercings. It annoys him to have people act like he’s this unmoored ghost, because this is a new-fangled pressure, but to him, that's just city-folk nuttery.
And then if you take them out of Tymanther, both of them get treated like novelties. Mehen uses that to intimidate people into leaving him alone, mostly. In Ashes of the Tyrant right now, he’s made Brin a sort of figurehead leader of the party, because he’s come to realize humans pay their own kind more fairly.
TL;DR: Think about ways that the character’s personality is shaped by the way the people they regularly interact with treat them.
External-Internal: This is the next step from the above. The people that your non-human characters interact with are going to notice that they’re not human. They will have a variety of opinions on this fact. Showcasing a variety of reactions and interactions helps shape the world the non-human characters live in. Whether that’s not-reacting (“What’ll it be?”), acting SUPER OKAY WITH IT (“I think it’s so cool you have a tail! My babysitter was a tiefling!”), getting skittish (“...Yeah, I’m going to need that coin up front. You know. Just in case.”), being a full-on bigot (“We don’t like your kind around here.”) or anything in between, people are complicated. And showing those interactions and your character’s reaction to those interactions is important. This, IMO, is the best way to display that PHB Prototype: reader's will pick it up in the differences between the expectations and the realities of your character.
Internal-External: This is simpler. It boils down to remembering that physically, these characters have attributes that aren’t human. Farideh and Havilar’s tails. Mehen’s facial structure/teeth. Lorcan’s wings. These are all tools for signaling emotional reactions. Dragonborn in particular are hard to describe in ways that indicate emotional reactions. They don’t have human faces and so they can’t, say, wrinkle their noses or stick out their tongues the way we do or smile or frown in as subtle a way (assuming that your viewpoint character is a human; a dragonborn would likely pick up a lot of nuance a human would miss entirely).
And in a broader sense, just reminding readers that those parts exist (and are absolutely normal to those characters!) makes a difference. See: Farideh's tail when she wakes up with Dahl.
Example: All my dragonborn tap their tongues against the roofs of their mouths when they’re nervous. Because I’ve seen people say that they’re functionally reptiles or functionally monotremes, this is me taking that to the logical step of giving them an enhanced Jacobsen’s organ, which lets them smell better. So, the biz gets tense, you introduce some air to that organ out of reflex, you taste that this dude you’re talking to is nervous, you react accordingly. Nothing more beneficial, really, than reading someone’s body language, but more tailored to a character who experiences the world in a very different body.
External-External: This is the inverse of the above. How do your non-human characters interact with the world beyond? Do they fit? How do they adapt to make themselves fit? What do they do to survive? What kind of jobs might be open to them and what would they never be able or willing to do?
A really obvious, basic example is furniture. Tieflings are going to be really good at sitting down carefully since their tails could easily get in the way. In Fire in the Blood Farideh gets strapped down to a chair and she can’t get comfortable because her tail doesn’t fit. They need room to either let it trail over the back, or to wrap alongside their leg. But they live like this so it’s something they consider—other places aren’t going to think about that. Similarly, dragonborn are sized like very big humans. Imagine going through doorways and using furniture as a 6’8”, 350 lb person. Not everything is going to fit you. So is this the kind of character who brings their own campstool with them? Is this the kind of character who wordlessly breaks off the arm rests of a chair so they can sit comfortably? Do they complain about it or suffer in silence? Do they just stand? Do they sit on the floor?
The takeaway here (but for all of this really) is to put yourself in the shoes of your character as much as possible, and think about them as an individual first and foremost.
Hope that helps!
Best,
Erin
*This is all important for human characters, too, by the way.
EDIT: Because typing fast gives me typos.
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www.slushlush.com |
Edited by - ErinMEvans on 19 Jan 2015 19:51:51 |
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Will they won't they? Fire in The Blood Discussion
