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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Sep 2014 : 15:39:15
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I was just thinking... Are there any known portals to Sigil in Faerūn?
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Edited by - Nicolai Withander on 29 Sep 2014 15:43:38
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2014 : 19:29:13
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There's one below the Abbey of the Sword.
I'd need to scour 2e sources for any others that have been explicitly named, but it can be assumed that there are more. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7966 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2014 : 23:52:48
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The Lady of Pain in Sigil can, of course, activate or shutdown or redirect portals connected to Sigil as she chooses. Basically, this means the DM can allow or disallow any such links desired - even those known to work before.
Portal keys might (likely will be) required to use a portal to Sigil. Simply knowing its location is not enough.
All portals linked to Sigil share a common feature: they appear within a frame, arch, or door-like entry. Cannot appear in thin air, on walls, etc, unless they occupy a space which could approximately or symbolically be called a doorway. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2014 : 04:13:47
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I'll note that the Abbey of the Sword portal [referenced in Faiths & Psntheons pg. 161] is one-way only, from Sigil to Toril.
..
Also, considering that the Sigil of the Great Wheel [in 3e/4e/and I'll cautiously presume 5e as well] is the same Sigil in the FR's Great Tree cosmology [at the time of 3e {and once confirmed by Rich Baker}]... I would think any of the 2e portals that were in existence and leading from either Toril or Sigil to Sigil or Toril have the possibility of still being active in 3e and later editions provided nothing has resulted in their closure.
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2014 : 14:42:53
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| Now seeing as she is so powerful, how much influence does she actually have in realmspace? I would assume non - since AO in my opponion would have an equal amount of power - just perhaps a less is more attitude to his rule... |
Edited by - Nicolai Withander on 30 Sep 2014 17:17:36 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2014 : 17:29:04
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No one knows. These are the imponderables that get people flayed alive in the Cage.
In Sigil, the Lady has absolute power. This must also extend to the far ends of the gates that fill the Cage, since they can go literally anywhere, including places that you can't get to any other way. Note, this has never been explicitly stated, but is implied by the wide range of the gates. But aside from being able to keep the gates open, and rearrange them at will (so the ability to put a gate anywhere in the multiverse regardless of local conditions), the Lady doesn't have any powers outside Sigil.
That we know of. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2014 : 23:34:16
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But could one not assume, that if AO did not want a portal to open anywhere in realmspace, he would be able to block that? It was my my understanding, that he would have absolute authority within he's sphere? Just as the lade is assumed to have complete control within sigil?
Do we know whether or not she would automatically know when someone new enters Sigil? Lets say a party of adventures from Faerun were to go there? |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7966 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2014 : 03:44:03
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I would think that regardless of Ao's overall power vs the Lady's overall power, Ao would always trump her in the Realms. If he chooses to disallow or alter a portal terminal in the Realms, then so be it, although the other end (outside the Realms) may be beyond his domain (especially if it is maintained by a someone with similar order of overgod power within their own domain). Yes, the Lady is aware of all portals and all uses of those portals within Sigil, she can likely perceive a great deal about the nature of portal travellers - she is certainly also aware of the Realms since a great many Primes in Sigil originate or depart for the Realms (including a few of notable power). Certainly there are also many people in Sigil who are familiar with the Realms and Realmsian deities. The Lady typically doesn't care at all where portals travellers arrive from, she is apparently only concerned with their behaviour while they remain in Sigil.
That being said, the Lady is well known for demonstrating her control over portals in Sigil, she frequently muddles their operating parameters to suit her own imponderable whims, sometimes in punitive and unjustifiable ways. Ao, on the other hand, seldom interferes in worldly affairs, his very existence is known to mortals in the Realms only through his rare and brief interactions with Realmsian deities. There's plenty of permanent portals - to horrible Lower Planes, the Astral, and beyond - which Ao has never closed. Then again, for all we know, there might be unknown numbers of such portals which he has already permanently sealed. |
[/Ayrik] |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2014 : 05:35:36
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Simple as this... Open a door in mechnus, teleport from the realms to mechnus , go to the door and boom....
Also the infinite stairway has access to signil. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2014 : 09:11:37
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Would it be possible just to gate into Sigil?
Another thing... Magic. Does arcane magic function as it does on Toril even though there is no weave? (pre spell-plague) |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2014 : 12:47:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Would it be possible just to gate into Sigil?
Another thing... Magic. Does arcane magic function as it does on Toril even though there is no weave? (pre spell-plague)
The only way into Sigil is via the portals. No other means function without the Lady's consent. In 2E, arcane magic worked normally in Sigil (note that, at the time, the weave was not developed as a specific game mechanic). |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2014 : 22:14:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
But could one not assume, that if AO did not want a portal to open anywhere in realmspace, he would be able to block that? It was my my understanding, that he would have absolute authority within he's sphere? Just as the lade is assumed to have complete control within sigil?
My thinking is that AO is beyond caring about what portals go in and out of Realmspace. That's more of Mystra, or Mystryl's, depending on which age you're playing in, influence and concern since she's the goddess of magic. AO... just has other concerns, or not, to worry about some mundane problems when there's a deity who oversees such things.
Magic changes, or at least it did, depending on which plane you go into. In Sigil itself, it functions normally like it does on most prime worlds, as far as I've ever read. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2014 : 22:31:13
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I agree with Ayrik and Kuje: Ao could block any of the Lady's portals from Realmspace if he wanted to, but that's just not something he would pay attention to.
It'd be like the CEO of a multinational corporation personally reprimanding a guy in the mailroom: The CEO could do it, but he's too busy running the company to even be aware of a need to reprimand the mailroom guy. Someone further down the food chain needs to deal with that. The CEO could personally oversee mailroom operations, but there is basically no reason for him to do so. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7966 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2014 : 23:06:57
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The Infinite Staircase has access to Sigil only when the Lady decides to allow it. If she isnt in the mood then you could spend infinite time exploring the infinite portals on the Infinite Staircase, but none of them will open to Sigil.
You could teleport between the Realms and Mechanus (or some other plane) all you like, and no matter what magic you use, what quirk of the universe you exploit, what failsafe method of travel is at your disposal the final, absolute, unchangeable fact is that you cannot arrive on (or depart) Sigil unless you use a portal controlled by the Lady - even gods and Powers are denied access to Sigil, it is called The Cage for good reason. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 01 Oct 2014 23:12:53 |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 00:48:17
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Personally I would posit that Her Serenity could create portals to Toril without Ao's permission. Ao is classified as an Overgod, but The Lady has no such definition. She's an enigma and an intentional one.
At the same time I wouldn't put that into print, not because it lessens Ao in any way, but because stating that The Lady -can- overtly override Ao in putting portals into Realmspace would define something about her role and nature that I think is best left unanswered. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 06:26:19
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back in Undermountain, one could almost consider whil in undermountain, Halaster Blackcloak was almost godlike
one could almost say the same about the lady of pain while she is in Sigil.
all powerful, just not likely so much out of sigil |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 06:52:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
But could one not assume, that if AO did not want a portal to open anywhere in realmspace, he would be able to block that? It was my my understanding, that he would have absolute authority within he's sphere? Just as the lade is assumed to have complete control within sigil?
My thinking is that AO is beyond caring about what portals go in and out of Realmspace. That's more of Mystra, or Mystryl's, depending on which age you're playing in, influence and concern since she's the goddess of magic. AO... just has other concerns, or not, to worry about some mundane problems when there's a deity who oversees such things.
Magic changes, or at least it did, depending on which plane you go into. In Sigil itself, it functions normally like it does on most prime worlds, as far as I've ever read.
Indeed AO does not seem to be interested in the affairs of mortal...
Whould it be reasonable to assume the Lady would oversee all travel to and from Sigil? I mean she might chose whether or not to open and close the portals, but does she "card" everyone who uses them? |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 07:30:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Whould it be reasonable to assume the Lady would oversee all travel to and from Sigil? I mean she might chose whether or not to open and close the portals, but does she "card" everyone who uses them?
That's how I'd see things, yes. We don't know what she/he/it is and Sigil is a special place with rules that are at her/his/it's whim. So, my thinking would be yea, she/he/it would choose to open and close portals. She's as powerful, if not more so, than some deities since she kicked them all out of Sigil, and keeps them out. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 02 Oct 2014 07:31:46 |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 09:41:49
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Her Serenity obliterated a greater deity and his priesthood overnight. I think it's safe to say she's beyond any divine assault.
How AO ranks up against her is unknown, but they probably don't really care either way. AO's involvement in divine affairs is basically summarized as spanking the pantheon for "reasons". |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7966 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2014 : 00:56:49
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The Lady did usurp Aoskar, a powerful deity of portals and doorways and stuff like that. Perhaps this grants her unusual godlike powers over such things while in Sigil. Remember that Sigil is a finite and small place - its really only a few dozen square miles worth of populated area, at most.
The Lady also does not appear to ever leave Sigil, some (non-canon) sources claim that she is *always* manifest somewhere within Sigil, perhaps she resides in her own private extradimensional maze. Again, Sigil is called The Cage for good reason. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7966 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2014 : 01:03:05
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| Agreed with Shemmy, lore is disserviced by defining beings like Ao or The Lady of Pain any more than the minimum needed for setting and story purposes. Creatures (even gods) with stats are just targets, look at poor Asmodeus being hunted and slain by countless PC parties just because he got stuffed into an AD&D monster manual. Supremely powerful godlike uber beings of some vaguely higher order, on the other hand, cannot even be quantified with any certainty, let alone challenged. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2014 : 11:08:25
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| Who governs magic in Sigil? |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2014 : 17:00:33
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Sigil lies untop of the spire of the great wheel, in the outlands. The spire in its center distorts magic, and as one gets closer it eventually even stops divine powers. It is unknown if the Lady of Pain causes this, or the spire itself.
Within the limited space of Sigil itself magic is unrestricted. I think the Athar are probably keenly interested in all visiting spellcasters near the Shattered Temple of Aoskar, keeping tabs on them and reporting their use to their factols in case they need to show spellbeggar clerics that their 'powers' are nothing more then dressed up ritualistic 'arcane' spells. The Fraternity of Order will habitually follow mages if they start upsetting the erratic flow of life in Sigil. |
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Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7966 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2014 : 20:08:11
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Some Planescape lore has hinted that Sigil is actually a deeper second planar layer of the Outlands (Concordant Opposition).
But really, the spire is infinitely tall. Anything sitting on top of it can never be reached - cannot even be viewed - from its infinitely distant bottom. Theres no view *outside* of Sigil. Theres no way in or out except for extraplanar portals controlled by some vaguely powerful goddess being. So I suggest theres no guarantee Sigil is where people say it is - it could as easily be on some unexplored fringe of the Outlands (or Astral, or Ethereal), it is functionally no different from a closed Prime or demiplane.
Interestingly, the so-called native inhabitants, Dabu servitors of the Lady, appear to be very closely related to a species native to another place. Sigil (or at least all the stuff its made of) had to come from somewhere. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 04 Oct 2014 20:09:40 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2014 : 17:45:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Who governs magic in Sigil?
I suppose if you want someone to be able to do that, the Lady is your best bet. I guess you could consider Sigil her realm, so she could choose to do that. Much like deities do if they have realms within planes, which allows them to change how magic works within their planar domains.
Otherwise, I'd say no one governs magic within Sigil much like no one does that for planar magic (again, except within deities realms inside of those planes). It just exists, it's part of the plane. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2014 : 18:49:56
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As an aside, I liken 'deific domains' to 'Domains of Dread' in Ravenloft; the mechanics are very similar. A god is simply a 'Domain Lord' of their specific deific domain (meaning they can control things like the physics of the place, which would include magic). They can also seal their realm.
The one major difference is that gods can leave their domain... but then they become vulnerable (although the ending we got in 3e would indicate the exact opposite - thats gods are ONLY vulnerable in their domain... which is very weird, IMO).
I guess its a matter of degrees... gods are much more vulnerable outside their domains because they aren't in-control of all the variables, but on the up-side, they can reform within their domain if they are killed (kinda like what fiends do). Thats why its easier to hurt them outside, but you can't kill them. If you kill a deity within its domain, for some reason it cannot reform (once again, very much like a fiend), but that might be based-upon the measures taken when the god was killed (for example, there were other things going on in Mystra's domain when she got destroyed, so certain specific methods were used).
I get the idea that when you are inside a god's domain, you are really inside the 'mind' (which would be the same as the body at these levels of power - deities are really little more then lumps of great cosmic energy) of the god - you are at it's core. That is why killing it there can kill it for good; its like a stab in the heart.
So the LoP is very much like a deity, but also very much like a Domain lord from Ravenloft - I get the idea that Sigil truly is her 'Cage'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Oct 2014 18:51:40 |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2014 : 06:15:40
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| Honestly, I think the Lady would count as a primordial, not a Goddess. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2014 : 13:32:03
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Could be... she could be anything.
She may have even been a mortal who achieved uber-epic status (like the Sojourner) and was on-par with gods and primordials.
I like that she is a mystery - it means WE can imagine whatever we want for her.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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fylth
Acolyte
Canada
11 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2014 : 20:45:05
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| FOr some reason I want to say that somewhere I read there is a portal to Sigil in Ravens Bluff. I can't say for sure, but I THINK I read that somewhere, I might be crazy though |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2014 : 10:04:20
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| When goin there... how much in danger, of a flailing from Her Serenity, is someone when just minding there own buisness? When I have been reading about Sigil, it seems that at any moment you could be at the receiving end of her wrath... which I gather noone even Larloch or the Srishee would survive. How random is her punishment? |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2014 : 14:56:23
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I dont know about that... Both Larloch and the Srinshee might be able to counterspell the Maze spell the Lady of Pain is so fond of. Not that they would have an answer to her next spell or attack (like her ability to cause wounds by thought by looking at you). She's more likely to ignore you if you mind your own business though.
I heard a rumor that Her Serenity is actually a former baatezu. Perhaps a obyrinth or ancient baatorian. Another one supposed she is actually six squirrels in a headdress levitated by a ring of levitation. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Traveling to Sigil question
