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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Dec 2019 : 22:38:00
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I just don't see Moander returning at all.
Page 120 of Faiths and Avatars says:
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With the Darkbringer's death, Lolth has taken Moander's name as an alias of her own. The Spider Queen realized in the aftermath of the Fall of the Gods that, like other gods of the Realms, she, too, was vulnerable to the vagaries of the strength and number of her worshipers. Lolth seeks to add surface-dwelling humans, elves, and half-elves to the ranks of her faithful through her guise as the Darkbringer.
Once she has her claws into something, it isn't likely she would give it up easily. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2019 : 22:49:35
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| Depends, later she separated herself out into multiple different entities. Perhaps we could finally say we have an explanation for the whole drow storyline that was put forth? Maybe she took on Moander and he split her up, kind of like he did with Tymora/Beshaba from Tyche? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2019 : 23:21:22
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| Yeah, I could see her "withdrawal" as actually a means to shed herself of the rot she ingested... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2019 : 23:28:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I just don't see Moander returning at all.
Page 120 of Faiths and Avatars says:
quote:
With the Darkbringer's death, Lolth has taken Moander's name as an alias of her own. The Spider Queen realized in the aftermath of the Fall of the Gods that, like other gods of the Realms, she, too, was vulnerable to the vagaries of the strength and number of her worshipers. Lolth seeks to add surface-dwelling humans, elves, and half-elves to the ranks of her faithful through her guise as the Darkbringer.
Once she has her claws into something, it isn't likely she would give it up easily.
Lolth has lost so many of the things she had her claws on, and ended up collecting massive defeats due to quite stupid plans recently. It's come to the point that she's been re-downgraded to lesser power in 5e, at the same level as EIlistraee and Vhaeraun are now.
Moander is back, not as a god, though. WotC listed him as a Great Old One, which is pretty nebulous, but hey... that's WotC's new thing. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2019 : 00:26:19
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I honestly see many of the "gods" as possibilities of being "something else" with the "god tag" thrown in. Talos fits one such mold in my book wherein he'd make a good primordial. Nobanion fits the mold of a primal spirit/great spirit, as does a being like Lurue. Since they started coming out with these other concepts, a lot of beings that were presented as beings who used to walk around the realms make sense to me as "something else" that somehow gained the ability to grant divine power.
Other gods like Mielikki, Eldath, and the Untheric/Mulhorandi gods that were in the realms physically prior to the ToT
. they all sound to me like entities that all possibly used the same method to enter the realms while the Imaskari godswall was up (i.e. they created some kind of manifestation of their power and sent it physically into the world). Then when the ToT was over, they suddenly had outer planar domains AND the godswall was gone. Others like Torm, Gwaeron Windstrom, possibly Siamorphe, etc.. who have a backstory of being raised up in the realms as a deity fit the mold of Ao created gods who would be loyal to Ao.
In fact, perhaps Ao allowed the creation of the godswall to prevent gods coming in who COULD challenge his power while he built up his own group of loyal "godlings". Thus, he could foster some lesser deities locally and possibly slowly allow them to gain access to an outer plane if they proved themselves worthy (because the godswall kept multispheric entities from coming in, but not necessarily stopping internally created gods venturing out to create a domain).
Hell, the dead three may have been something similar to the Mulan gods... a manifestation who was sent here and then sought to build their power (especially if Kiputytto was one of their comrades as some have suspected... and I wouldn't be surprised if Loviatar wasn't also going around with them). Myrkul being something like a Crown Prince of Murghom may just mean he was another stray Mulan manifestation. If we were to look at it through that lens, then perhaps these manifestations were "left behind" when they ascended to get an outer plane. This explanation could help explain away a LOT of returning gods actually.... Deneir, Azuth, Savras, Leira, Mask, Lathander, etc... from the sundering.... as in their "manifestations" which they'd left behind when they "ascended" were somehow reawakened by the spellplague or the sundering (which if the spellplague, perhaps they were in Abeir).
All that to basically say I bet a lot of gods are "something else and a god". |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2019 : 03:34:46
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Depends, later she separated herself out into multiple different entities. Perhaps we could finally say we have an explanation for the whole drow storyline that was put forth? Maybe she took on Moander and he split her up, kind of like he did with Tymora/Beshaba from Tyche?
Moander didn't split Tyche. The bolt of silver fire that Selūne threw at the corrupted Tyche is what caused the split. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2019 : 22:40:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Depends, later she separated herself out into multiple different entities. Perhaps we could finally say we have an explanation for the whole drow storyline that was put forth? Maybe she took on Moander and he split her up, kind of like he did with Tymora/Beshaba from Tyche?
Moander didn't split Tyche. The bolt of silver fire that Selūne threw at the corrupted Tyche is what caused the split.
Good point... so perhaps a better way to phrase it would be "Lolth took in Moander, it started corrupting/devouring her, and she split herself to purge herself". We even had all those little "chapter preludes" that discussed Lolth's spiders eating each other, and stuff. The gist being the same... Moander taken in... in order to survive split. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2019 : 05:14:37
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Even if Lolth had been corrupted by Moander, it still doesn't make sense that auto-cannibalism made her stronger.
If the split had been to purge herself of tainted elements, then there would be less, not more, at the end.
And as I recall, the description of what happened explicitly had all of the mini-Lolths being eaten -- so if she split to contain the corruption, she re-ingested it! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2019 : 23:26:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even if Lolth had been corrupted by Moander, it still doesn't make sense that auto-cannibalism made her stronger.
If the split had been to purge herself of tainted elements, then there would be less, not more, at the end.
And as I recall, the description of what happened explicitly had all of the mini-Lolths being eaten -- so if she split to contain the corruption, she re-ingested it!
Think about that for a second... Moander infected Tyche... and we ended up with more beings in the end.
I don't necessarily believe that she got stronger as a result of that. One of the fallouts of it may be that Lolth literally went multiple personality disorder, and maybe that's why she was suddenly ineffective. She may have tried to portray herself as stronger, but maybe she wasn't. Maybe that's why she was desperate enough to start trying to feed on Kiaransalee and her children.
On the many spiders killing each other and eating each other... maybe that WAS the representation of Moander. I'll admit, its not a perfect explanation, but at least its a start of one, because what we have currently absolutely makes not a bit of sense. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe
USA
329 Posts |
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Moander ... Returning to the 5E Realms?
