Author |
Topic |
Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 14:05:56
|
I was wondering what you guys though of the idea that someone like the srisnhee would have the ability to cast level 10 true dweomers?
Im well avery that Mystra changed/banned that kind of magic, or changed the outlet of magic so that level 10+ was nigh impossible, but what you think of the idea? Its in a 3.5 D&D game, where the spell plague have not happened. Ca year 1380.
|
|
jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 15:15:30
|
quote: Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
I was wondering what you guys though of the idea that someone like the srisnhee would have the ability to cast level 10 true dweomers?
Im well avery that Mystra changed/banned that kind of magic, or changed the outlet of magic so that level 10+ was nigh impossible, but what you think of the idea? Its in a 3.5 D&D game, where the spell plague have not happened. Ca year 1380.
If anyone could do it it would be srisnhee...but is she still alive? |
|
|
Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 16:00:35
|
Well, Mystra banned that kind of magic from humankind, not elves. I think she capped elves at 10th level for spells though. 3rd edition turned it all into epic spells though, which I never quite got the hang of. |
|
|
The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 16:35:55
|
The 2e sourcebook The Magister states (toward the back of the book) that any wizard, human or otherwise, can use 10th-level magic. However, there are special stipulations to their use. For instance, the first attempt at a given spell ALWAYS fails and any use of such magic ALWAYS attracts the immediate attention of Mystra and Azuth.
I've always assumed that the Great Wizards of the World all use level 10 magic from time to time. They just have to be careful what they use them for so as not to get shut down by the gods of magic. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
|
|
The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 16:37:11
|
Oh and also, the Fall of Myth Drannor module and I THINK the Cormanthyr sourcebook both have 10th-level spells in them. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
|
|
Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 17:45:30
|
Forgot about The Magister. I might have been thinking of Cormanthyr maybe. |
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 19:58:24
|
I think the difference is that once upon a time - when it was Mystril not Mystra - 10th, 11th, and 12th level spells were just that: spells that could be cast of awesome power - perhaps with incredibly complex components, but otherwise no different from a any other spell.
After the fall, high level spells - or "True Dweomers" that did not involve elven "High Magic" changed. One such spell IS given in each of the Cormanthyr Arcane age books. The first is Srinshee's Spellshift (which means yes she can cast them). The second is Mythanthor's Create Mythal spell.
From its description we learn a couple of the ways around the restriction:
1) cooperative magic - a group of spellcasters working in concert to create a spell more powerful than any one of them could otherwise cast. This, by the way, is also the stabilizing force for much High Magic.
2) casting cost - most spells, if they have a casting cost, drain vitality in the form of Constitution to represent that it was a work of power that permanently fatigued the caster. Create Mythal, as well as numerous other great casting seen over the years, required the sacrifice of life to power the magic beyond what Mystra allows one to draw upon easily. (High Magic uses this as well). Exceptions to this that we see in novels are those that use the power of relics or artifacts instead to power the magic.
The other well detailed 10th level spell we know of is the ritual of Twin Burnings. While never named 10th level, I think it its pretty obvious. Here we again see two needed components that most wizard spells do not have:
1) the cost of life-force: here it is drained from victims rather than casters but that is more of a good/evil semantic in my book.
2) many layered magic: the ritual is not a simple spell cast - it is 9 in depth rituals and inscriptions woven together over 9 months. I think of this as the alternative to casting cooperative magics, such as create mythal - in create mythal many casters are doing different things in concert at the same time. In this ritual, one caster must do everything, and so the layers must be painstakingly built over time. This we also saw in the creation of "spell-webs" in Elminster in Myth Drannor.
All of the greater workings of magic we see in any book require at least one and usually two of these things to be done. |
|
|
Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 23:47:12
|
She is still alive in 1380. It is a 3.5 edition game, but we use alot of 2nd ed lore. So we are sopossed to thik that The Srinshees spellshift is still casteble by her in its true level 10 form in year 1380?
|
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2014 : 00:48:36
|
Mystra's ban happened before Myth Drannor. Therefore I'd say when she created the 10th level spell the "ban" was already in effect. |
|
|
The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2014 : 01:38:58
|
I would say she likely re-created the spell (under the new 'rules' of magic) after Mystryl was replaced. That particular spell, btw, seems to be a 'normal' spell that doesn't require the special rules the Masked Mage quoted. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
Edited by - The Arcanamach on 21 Aug 2014 01:40:25 |
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2014 : 05:37:21
|
True, though oddly the description completely ignores any description of its components, so its preparation may be as complicated as ritual magic and the 1 round casting time might be the final release... |
|
|
Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2014 : 09:02:40
|
Correct my if I'm wrong, but the ban that was set in effect at the time of the fall of Netheril, was that not "only" level 11 and 12?
I seem to remember that the last ban, which included level 10 spells, was set in effect afther the 'Time of Troubles'? Again I might be mistaken.
If she indeed created her sprellshift spell after the ban of level 10 spells, then she must either have some special relationship with Mystra, who simply allows Srinshee to cast such spells or she is simple so talented and skilled that she just can do it by her own craft...
EDIT: I read the passage in "secrets of the magister" about the level 10 spells. Are we to assume that the Srinshee can awoid these consequences or do we think that they apply to her aswell? |
Edited by - Nicolai Withander on 21 Aug 2014 09:39:58 |
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2014 : 09:48:54
|
No... Well, not exactly. Do you have "Secrets of the Magister"? If i need to I'll type out the explanation for you, but it is long. If you have it, refer to page 91.
|
|
|
Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2014 : 10:00:37
|
quote: Originally posted by The Masked Mage
No... Well, not exactly. Do you have "Secrets of the Magister"? If i need to I'll type out the explanation for you, but it is long. If you have it, refer to page 91.
Yes I have it... It the part about the list of consequeces for the caster of level 10 spells you are refering to right? the one with the 85% chance of loss of level etc... And Im unsure of what your 'no' refers to... |
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2014 : 10:33:59
|
Well, as this page states, it was not just 12th and 11th level spells in the "ban". It was SPECIFIC (I read this as most but not all) 10th level spells as well, but apparently there are exceptions.
Also according to the page, these spells CAN be cast given the proper requisites, including a supporting caster.
Now, when considering the Srinshee we must remember that she IS a chosen of Mystra (Ed has confirmed this in his scroll), so it might be possible for her to cast these spells without a supporting caster and without the wild magic effects. As the page says below, a Magister WILL be successful and I assume Chosen would be as well, but will draw Mystra's attention and Choice - so one must assume it is frowned upon at least. |
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2014 : 10:40:12
|
Now, my reading of the Spellplague is similar - these magics are not impossible, just changed and must be relearned in a new way. AND the weave is weakened/unstable. So ANY casting is a matter of chance, and great works of magic even more so. |
|
|
Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2014 : 11:44:37
|
quote: Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Well, as this page states, it was not just 12th and 11th level spells in the "ban". It was SPECIFIC (I read this as most but not all) 10th level spells as well, but apparently there are exceptions.
Also according to the page, these spells CAN be cast given the proper requisites, including a supporting caster.
Now, when considering the Srinshee we must remember that she IS a chosen of Mystra (Ed has confirmed this in his scroll), so it might be possible for her to cast these spells without a supporting caster and without the wild magic effects. As the page says below, a Magister WILL be successful and I assume Chosen would be as well, but will draw Mystra's attention and Choice - so one must assume it is frowned upon at least.
So she was a chosen all along... Any chance you could link to that scroll, so I dont have to read +10 pages to find it?
But yes one could assume that her spell was one of the exceptions... |
|
|
George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2014 : 15:48:10
|
The answer is slightly different in the products noted above. Cormanthyr appears to state that elves can cast 10th level spells and that humans can't. The Magister appears to state that anyone can cast 10th level spells as long as they are receiving deific and mechanical assistance (i.e. the anchoring thing). What is clear is that 11th and 12th level spells are totally off limits.
I think both sources are true in that the elves can cast 10th level spells easier than humans because of their affinity to the Weave and the likely 'ongoing' deific support provided to them by their pantheon. In other words, you get the 10th level green light from Corellon pretty much whenever you want it. Mystra is a tougher sell for permission.
Lastly, 'true dweomers' are a rules construct. While they are mentioned in a few FR sources, my view is that with the rules/edition changes they are simply nomenclature, not a different type of spellcasting anymore.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
|
|
Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2014 : 16:49:05
|
quote: Originally posted by George Krashos
The answer is slightly different in the products noted above. Cormanthyr appears to state that elves can cast 10th level spells and that humans can't. The Magister appears to state that anyone can cast 10th level spells as long as they are receiving deific and mechanical assistance (i.e. the anchoring thing). What is clear is that 11th and 12th level spells are totally off limits.
I think both sources are true in that the elves can cast 10th level spells easier than humans because of their affinity to the Weave and the likely 'ongoing' deific support provided to them by their pantheon. In other words, you get the 10th level green light from Corellon pretty much whenever you want it. Mystra is a tougher sell for permission.
Lastly, 'true dweomers' are a rules construct. While they are mentioned in a few FR sources, my view is that with the rules/edition changes they are simply nomenclature, not a different type of spellcasting anymore.
-- George Krashos
I have thought the same, that elves somehow had/have a permission slip to do cast that sort of magic. The elves does seem calmer and less destructive, (apart from the sundering/killing wind thing that created evermeet) so that might simple be that corellion vouches for them so that Mystra does not interfere... But it seems clear that that kind of casting is still going on, or that it is very possible for someone like Srinshee. (whom might hold a special position among Mystras favorites).
In relations to me calling them True Dweomers it was to not confuse them with someone in a 3.5 game having access to level 10 slots by the feat improved spell capacity. But your wording seems to suggest that the 'normal' level 1-9 spells are something different than 'true dweomers' which I thought was normal spells really were, albeit never called. Any chance you could elaborate on that?
|
Edited by - Nicolai Withander on 21 Aug 2014 19:00:38 |
|
|
The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2014 : 17:23:41
|
If you look at how True Dweomers were used (rules-wise) you will see that they are identical to Epic Spells in 3x. I think (and I may be wrong on this) that The Magister supplement was treating them a bit differently than that though.
In a sense, they were 'epic spells/true dweomers in that they had mitigating factors (needing an anchor and running the risk of losing a level). But the 'feel' of that sourcebook seemed different to me. By that I mean that it looked more like Ed's own version of such magic.
Personally, I don't like the true dweomer/epic spell system AT ALL. In my homebrew 10th-level spells are just that, 10th-level magics of Mighty Art. Some spells are 'normal' like the Spellshift spell (pretty much anyone could cast it just like any other spell of lesser level). Others are so powerful that you need an anchor, or it is really an extremely long ritual (and thus can't be cast 'on the fly') or some other mitigating factor.
And, for the record, 11th and 12th-level spells exist in my homebrew. They take up 10th-level slots but require CL 30th and 40th respectively and are pretty much not allowed by Mystra unless there is a damn good reason for their use.
In regards to Elven High Magic: I consider Rituals of Solitude 'normal' 10th-level spells, Rituals of Compliment are 11th-level in power and Rituals of Myriad are 12th-level in power. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
|
|
silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2014 : 21:16:56
|
D&D falls apart in the higher levels, Wizards can win the world at that high level of magic, epic level stuf is just haggling with DM on how you will win it.
3e system was a mess but still useable, personally I would suggest if you want to run 3eish stuff without the large damn glut of rules, I would suggest introducing your group to 5e. |
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2014 : 21:35:06
|
Sorry - No link to the Srishee is a chosen scroll - I've read about 300 pages of Ed scrolls this month and I have no clue which that was from as it is not the droid I was looking for :P.
I do like the correlation of 10th level to Rituals of Solitude, 11th level to Rituals of Compliment, and 12th level to Ritual of Myriad. That seems very appropriate. |
|
|
The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2014 : 23:30:21
|
Which novel describes the Srinshee becoming a chosen? It was explicity stated as that is the point where she changed from being a baelnorn to the youthful girl that she is seen as now. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7966 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2014 : 23:59:32
|
Mystras Ban is likely only an 11th level magic, haha. Thus existing 10th level magics (including Mythals and Mythallars and floating Netherese enclaves and Netheril-sized weather changes) can continue to operate but new ones require Mystras direct attention and are subject to her disapproval. 11th level magics (like creating Mythallars and creating inverted floating mountain enclaves and creating Sharn Wall barriers) is basically impossible to accomplish without godly power.
The only known example of a 12th level spell was Karsus Ascendancy - allowing the caster to take the power of a god - unfortunately cast with great success. Alas, even if he was cogent, Karsus could not slip a 12th level Dismiss Mystras Ban spell past her 10th level restriction. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2014 : 00:41:23
|
quote: Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Which novel describes the Srinshee becoming a chosen? It was explicity stated as that is the point where she changed from being a baelnorn to the youthful girl that she is seen as now.
That would be El in Myth Drannor - though I don't think the book explicitly said Chosen. |
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2014 : 05:29:06
|
May 1st, 2004, Questions for Ed (2004):
quote: Originally posted by The Hooded One
Well, Kuje31, this is indeed your lucky day. Ed had a few spare moments just now (fresh from explaining Chaucer to a young lady patron at the library), and was able to pound out a quick reply, to whit:
Yup, that passage seems pretty clear to me. Can one hint any more directly? I suppose one could mistake that passage to mean the Srinshee was a goddess, but if one doesn’t reach that conclusion, I don’t think one can read objectively and twist it to mean she isn’t a Chosen. :} So let me state it baldly, here and now: as far as we mortals can tell, looking briefly through the eyes of Vangerdahast, a man quite familiar with magic and with the company of certain Chosen, the Srinshee IS a Chosen. While I’m at it, let me reiterate: Mystra is the most powerful deity of the Faerunian pantheon, by virtue of the fact that Toril is so overwhelmingly governed, sourced, and powered by magic. (If Ao the Overgod exists, Ao is for purposes of this argument “more” than a deity.) This is why Mystra’s power (the silver fire) is divided up among many mortals: her Chosen. The “Chosen” of Mystra are different than the “Chosen” of other deities (who tend to be champions, advocates, servitors, and so on, who if they have any of the direct power of the deity, are lent it by the deity in a manner quite different from Mystra’s probably-unwilling sharing). There are other Chosen of Mystra besides her willing servants (Elminster, Khelben, and the Seven), many of them as yet unidentified in Realmslore. All of them serve Mystra in their own ways. The precise nature of what it is to be a Chosen of Mystra still hasn’t been fully revealed, and is too vast and complicated to be easily expressed in terms of prestige classes or other rules forms and details. On the other hand, mortals can never perfectly understand the gods, because mortals can only see things with mortal perceptions and senses. So (as they say) continue to talk amongst yourselves. :}
So saith Ed. I should underscore that his “your characters, and for that matter the game designers and fiction writers of our real world, can’t possibly know and understand everything about the gods” theme is one he has reiterated to us original players for 25 years now – and for that matter, as an original player who had to “sign off” on the original Realms agreement with TSR, let me remind everyone that when Ed speaks about the Realms, he does so with absolute authority: if he says the Srinshee is a Chosen, she IS. Realms game designers and fiction writers can change that, later, with an in-game, in-the-Realms explanation or series of events to bring about the change (like the Avatar/Time of Troubles products), but in any lore dispute about the Realms, Ed wins. Sorta like Tolkien wins if we’re talking Middle-Earth, McCaffrey if we’re talking Pern, and so on. THO
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2014 : 06:31:10
|
Yep - that's the one I was talking about Wooly :) Such a helpful little giant hamster. |
|
|
Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2014 : 08:14:10
|
quote: Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
May 1st, 2004, Questions for Ed (2004):
quote: Originally posted by The Hooded One
Well, Kuje31, this is indeed your lucky day. Ed had a few spare moments just now (fresh from explaining Chaucer to a young lady patron at the library), and was able to pound out a quick reply, to whit:
Yup, that passage seems pretty clear to me. Can one hint any more directly? I suppose one could mistake that passage to mean the Srinshee was a goddess, but if one doesn’t reach that conclusion, I don’t think one can read objectively and twist it to mean she isn’t a Chosen. :} So let me state it baldly, here and now: as far as we mortals can tell, looking briefly through the eyes of Vangerdahast, a man quite familiar with magic and with the company of certain Chosen, the Srinshee IS a Chosen. While I’m at it, let me reiterate: Mystra is the most powerful deity of the Faerunian pantheon, by virtue of the fact that Toril is so overwhelmingly governed, sourced, and powered by magic. (If Ao the Overgod exists, Ao is for purposes of this argument “more” than a deity.) This is why Mystra’s power (the silver fire) is divided up among many mortals: her Chosen. The “Chosen” of Mystra are different than the “Chosen” of other deities (who tend to be champions, advocates, servitors, and so on, who if they have any of the direct power of the deity, are lent it by the deity in a manner quite different from Mystra’s probably-unwilling sharing). There are other Chosen of Mystra besides her willing servants (Elminster, Khelben, and the Seven), many of them as yet unidentified in Realmslore. All of them serve Mystra in their own ways. The precise nature of what it is to be a Chosen of Mystra still hasn’t been fully revealed, and is too vast and complicated to be easily expressed in terms of prestige classes or other rules forms and details. On the other hand, mortals can never perfectly understand the gods, because mortals can only see things with mortal perceptions and senses. So (as they say) continue to talk amongst yourselves. :}
So saith Ed. I should underscore that his “your characters, and for that matter the game designers and fiction writers of our real world, can’t possibly know and understand everything about the gods” theme is one he has reiterated to us original players for 25 years now – and for that matter, as an original player who had to “sign off” on the original Realms agreement with TSR, let me remind everyone that when Ed speaks about the Realms, he does so with absolute authority: if he says the Srinshee is a Chosen, she IS. Realms game designers and fiction writers can change that, later, with an in-game, in-the-Realms explanation or series of events to bring about the change (like the Avatar/Time of Troubles products), but in any lore dispute about the Realms, Ed wins. Sorta like Tolkien wins if we’re talking Middle-Earth, McCaffrey if we’re talking Pern, and so on. THO
Wow... that very cool. Well that settles that. I wonder... Havent there been a lot of NDA's sorrounding Srinshee and her nature, which have been theorized and discussed after 2004? Seems a bit redundant...
Anywho... I would make perfect sence for her to be able and dare I say allowed to cast level 10 spells... albeit frowned upon.
I wonder how oftern such spells are worked... I seem to be under the impression that Mages are risk takers, who dare a lot for great power. |
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2014 : 08:37:31
|
As an aside, I would point out one thing about the Srinshee that is also true. She is an elven High Mage. She can cast high magic rituals... AND we have seen her cast at least 1 ritual of compliment alone, though she might have been drawing on the power of the ruler's blade to do so.
At any rate, I would not put her in among those who rush in and take risks. We've seen her act openly only 3 times in 700 years - all in Eds "Time to save the Realms" moments :P |
|
|
Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2014 : 16:13:18
|
quote: Originally posted by The Masked Mage
As an aside, I would point out one thing about the Srinshee that is also true. She is an elven High Mage. She can cast high magic rituals... AND we have seen her cast at least 1 ritual of compliment alone, though she might have been drawing on the power of the ruler's blade to do so.
At any rate, I would not put her in among those who rush in and take risks. We've seen her act openly only 3 times in 700 years - all in Eds "Time to save the Realms" moments :P
When mentioning risk, I was refering to other, possible evil mages. Its my understanding, that Mystra is supposed to delight in the development of magic, not only by good mages, so I would venture a guess that if some good mages can cast level 10... some evil can too. Larloch and Ioulaum spring to mind.
I also belive that the Srinshee only cast spells when need be. And that when she does its quite spectacular! |
|
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2014 : 16:30:08
|
I prefer to view things like this in terms of programming.
We know that spells have been researched and created down the ages. Therefore someone has spent time devising and programming a spell and upon completion it has been entered to store it into the weave forever so that anyone can call upon it with ease.
At some point in the distant past even the lowly magic missile did not exist as a "spell" and someone had to program it in.
So level 10, 11, and 12 "spells" were programmed into it by the Netherese and when they abused those powers Mystra deleted them all, and she keeps deleting them as people research them (for the first time anyway for level 10 spells).
Now there is another way to cast magic, imagine programming a spell on the fly, you add a bit of hand waving, some arcane words, mould the arcane fire into a ball and throw it at your enemies and hey presto you have a fireball, but you made yours purple and yellow and take the form of a dragons head. Did you pull on the pre programmed spell stored in the weave, no you made it up on the fly because after years of study you understand how the weave behaves (or you think you do).
The elves call this high magic, others call it epic magic, others call it ritual magic. It is creating magic on the fly using the words of power and incantations that make up other spells but you understand how they affect the weave to the infintessimal degree.
For me ritual magic requires an Arcana check instead of taking up a spell slot, and the checks can be quite high to even cast a preprogrammed spell (10 per level of the spell), to create truly unique magic you are talking about checks in the hundreds or even thousands. This magic takes time to cast, days or weeks usually, it can be rushed but that increases the difficulty of the check.
You can sacrifice your health or magic to help mitigate the difficulty of the casting (1 hp per DC point).
Even worse though, failing in casting using this magic has very dangerous results (usually resulting in someones death).
I reckon the elves routinely use the ritual style magic (they have all the time in the world after all), and they tried to teach the Netherese about the intricacies of magic. However the Netherese prefered the "spell" type magic, and they used the Nether Scroll to help them program new spells (it was kind of like a big programming manual).
So you cannot cast 11th and 12th level spells (they are banned). You can cast 10th level spells if you dont mind failing the first time.
However using ritual magic you can form any spell you like, it just takes time, its dangerous, and its difficult. The level of the spell has no meaning because it is a unique formation relying solely on your ability to manipulate the weave on the fly rather than your ability to remember the preprogrammed incantations.
Most wizards are human nowadays and probably cant be bothered with ritual magic, they are power hungry and impatient or it never occurs to them to try a way different than what they have always been taught (ie they are unimaginative and shortsighted).
The likes of Elminster, Larloch, the Srinshee, the Simbul, and most elves know about ritual magic and the more evil ones probably use it more often for more nefarious means. The Srinshee was probably casting a ritual to foil Larloch (which would be dangerous and difficult) in Ed's latest novel (although i havent read it).
And thats how i see magic. Two types of spellcasting, the first a subset of the last and the easier route to power, but ultimately a user of "spells" will never be able to reach the heights of magic achieved by those that can manipulate the weave to their hearts desire. |
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1 Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2 Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3 Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4 Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5 Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6 Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7 Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8 Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9
Alternate Realms Site |
Edited by - Gary Dallison on 22 Aug 2014 16:33:43 |
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|