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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2014 :  22:16:05  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
But the Masked Lady is (a changed) Eilistraee (or a merge between brother and sister, depends on how you look at it, unless you completely remade her concept).

An alliance between E and V would have the tools to actually stop Lolth, if they decided to team up (some speculated that the ML was the result of that).


quote:
It would be an interesting change if Drizzt did start caring for the rest of his people by adopting some of Eilistraee's tenets but that is probably VERY unlikely.


Maybe, but even then why not bring back Eilistraee?

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.

Edited by - Irennan on 28 Aug 2014 22:17:51
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rapunzel77
Acolyte

29 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2014 :  15:07:26  Show Profile Send rapunzel77 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

But the Masked Lady is (a changed) Eilistraee (or a merge between brother and sister, depends on how you look at it, unless you completely remade her concept).

An alliance between E and V would have the tools to actually stop Lolth, if they decided to team up (some speculated that the ML was the result of that).


quote:
It would be an interesting change if Drizzt did start caring for the rest of his people by adopting some of Eilistraee's tenets but that is probably VERY unlikely.


Maybe, but even then why not bring back Eilistraee?



I'm not sure if Eilistraee is back. I know they said in the Forgotten Realms panel last year that all the gods/goddesses are back but it sounds like from what's being said about the 5th edition player's handbook, etc that she is not mentioned anywhere nor her followers so they probably aren't going to do anything with her which is unfortunate.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2014 :  15:22:01  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rapunzel77


I'm not sure if Eilistraee is back. I know they said in the Forgotten Realms panel last year that all the gods/goddesses are back but it sounds like from what's being said about the 5th edition player's handbook, etc that she is not mentioned anywhere nor her followers so they probably aren't going to do anything with her which is unfortunate.



PHB deities list is far from being complete. For comparison, all the racial pantheons are missing. We can just hope and wait for the 5e FRCG (when it will come) or -maybe- some novel/adventure. However it looks like almost every god is back (heck even Ibrandul gets mentions), to single out two unique and defining deities like E&V would really be a waste and a ''screw you'' to their fans (especially considering that a project about their return and lore written for it has already been thrown away once, two years ago).

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.

Edited by - Irennan on 29 Aug 2014 20:19:39
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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2014 :  15:36:15  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wouldnt say i completely remade the concept of the Masked Lady.

I havent gone into who won the fight (E or V) because in the end it doesnt matter who won. No god survives merging with another with their personality intact, and in order to combat Lolth a merger would have to take place.

So the Masked Lady is born of a unison between Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. She no longer cares about goodness, or redemption, or hiding in the shadows. She wants to be the reigning drow deity and she wants revenge on lolth.

Also since Lolth was silent, the Masked Lady decided to answer the prayers of Zinzerena's faithful. The assassins of Zinzerena decided the Masked Lady was a much better fit than Lolth (they knew Zinzerena was killed but now they view the Masked Lady as Zinzerena reborn).

Thats three worshipper bases contributing to the power of the Masked Lady who now has power of male drow, outcast drow, surface drow, assassins, and a few others.

She's definitely in the intermediate power range and since she has no qualms about having drow of any gender or alignment worship her (unlike Vhaeraun or Eilistraee, she is getting the worship of large numbers of drow unhappy with lolth's rule.

The common drow on the street, the unhappy minor daughter of a drow house, the soldier, the slaves, the wizards. If they hate lolth, they turn to the Masked Lady, and lets face it, Lolth has done much to be hated.


At least thats the way im going with the masked lady.

I hate one dimensional lore. Its very boring and unimaginative. The stuff Ed writes is always so multi-faceted so i try to copy that. The latest news on the drow just makes me dislike 5E as much as 4E

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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2014 :  15:51:09  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I wouldnt say i completely remade the concept of the Masked Lady.

I havent gone into who won the fight (E or V) because in the end it doesnt matter who won. No god survives merging with another with their personality intact, and in order to combat Lolth a merger would have to take place.


I'm pretty sure that an alliance would work too, as their followers base would merge as it happened with the ML. Anyway I'm of the opinion that both gods somehow survive in the merging, keeping traits of both.
Well, it's a matter of PoV, I guess.

quote:

So the Masked Lady is born of a unison between Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. She no longer cares about goodness, or redemption, or hiding in the shadows. She wants to be the reigning drow deity and she wants revenge on lolth.




Why not? If she is a merge between E&V, then she would keep what they have in common: fighting so that the drow can be free to choose their path and forge their own place in the surface world, and in order to stop the inner conflicts that waste so many dark elven lives for nothing. So she can lead any drow who wants that -really- encouraging people who try to achieve that through redemption, but not dismissing the ones who want to use more subtle methods either. Tbh the goal of revenge and being the supreme drow deity that you propose sounds very similar to Lolth (even tho your ML still doesn't care about female supremacy and gives every worshipper the same ''weight'').

Ofc just my 2 cents, it's your campaign and I'm not here to criticize your choices.

quote:
I hate one dimensional lore. Its very boring and unimaginative. The stuff Ed writes is always so multi-faceted so i try to copy that. The latest news on the drow just makes me dislike 5E as much as 4E


Agreed. E&V or the ML should be back- However there are no actual news on drow yet, so I would wait before deciding.

Ed said that it's highly likely that we havent's seen the last of Eilistraee, and Vhaeraun apparently gets a chosen (even if not explicilty mentioned), after all. Maybe...

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.

Edited by - Irennan on 29 Aug 2014 15:57:32
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2014 :  16:10:25  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well the official stance is all about freedom. She doesnt care where or who. They could worship her on the moon for all she cared.

The important bit is the drow have the freedom to choose.

And of course all gods want to be worshipped first and foremost (if you arent worshipped you are dead).

Plus Eilistraee, Vhaeraun, and Zinzerena all have many reasons to hate Lolth, as do the rest of the drow.

And i always find a bit of delicious irony in story works wonders. Eilistraee spent her entire life trying to free herself and the drow from her mother's shadow. Wouldnt it be wonderful in the end if she succeeded and became just as twisted and evil as Lolth herself.

I put the Masked Lady as CN, emphasising freedom. But if i played the story through to completion she would be CE and the drow would have the freedom to choose whatever they wanted, as long as they chose her.

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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2014 :  18:56:53  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Well the official stance is all about freedom. She doesnt care where or who. They could worship her on the moon for all she cared.

The important bit is the drow have the freedom to choose.


Yeah, freedom is what E and V have in common among their ideals. There's also the drow forging their way in the world, that could be another strong point of the ML, unless you prefer drow to stay only underground.

quote:

And of course all gods want to be worshipped first and foremost (if you arent worshipped you are dead).


Not entirely true. People can worship multiple gods, as long as one is among those, he/she/it gets ''food''. There's no need to ''reign supreme'', for example I really doubt that Eilistraee would want that (there's a bit in EC's Evermeet where after the appearence of the Dark Dancer to Sharlario and his son, they offer to convert from Sehanine's service into hers, but she simply tells them that there's no need to).

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
And i always find a bit of delicious irony in story works wonders. Eilistraee spent her entire life trying to free herself and the drow from her mother's shadow. Wouldnt it be wonderful in the end if she succeeded and became just as twisted and evil as Lolth herself.

I put the Masked Lady as CN, emphasising freedom. But if i played the story through to completion she would be CE and the drow would have the freedom to choose whatever they wanted, as long as they chose her.



Eh, not my cup of tea tbh. It would just ruin her charater IMO, unless you like fallen heroes. I do sometimes, but with Eilistraee it wouldn't work for me. One of the reasons I like her is her dreamer/idealist side that shines and stands out in the ''darkness'' that afflicts her people. I would still like her if she started to see the need to change her approach a bit and decided to lean more towards a ''the goal justifies the means'' kind of MO (like one of those scenes when a character goes through something that opens her eyes, and she is like ''reborn'' anew, tempered, changing part of herself, as it happened with the ML), but I don't see her becoming like her mother.


Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.

Edited by - Irennan on 29 Aug 2014 20:19:58
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