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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Aug 2014 : 01:33:01
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This year we had the highest participation. Thank you to all that attended, and a special thanks to Garen Thal for organizing it all.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2014 : 01:45:47
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| Wish I could have gone. I always miss GenCon. Is any of it available on youtube? |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2014 : 02:40:00
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| Ah, dang, it was last year :/ |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2014 : 02:49:49
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And I'd like to return a BIG thank you to all participating Candlekeep Gen Con folk -- especially the aforementioned Brian "Garen Thal" Cortijo -- for allowing those of us not able to attend, to also participate in some small measure via his wonderful crowd-funding initiative on GoFundMe.
Awesome stuff! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2014 : 03:23:27
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Yes, a great effort from the organisers. All the attendees came away very happy IMO, and who wouldn't be given the the informal 'panel' was made up of Ed, Brian Cortijo, Erik Scott de Bie, Steven Schend, the James brothers, Erin Evans, Thomas Reid and former TSR/WotC employees Steve Winter and Susan Morris. Stellar line-up in my book. If any 'Keep member is thinking about GENCON next year, I'd encourage them to make this seminar a priority. The most interesting thing was that most people there had no knowledge of this website but were there purely and simply because they are interested or fascinated or obsessed with the Realms. Wish I could make this an annual event.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2014 : 03:24:57
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| Is there any place I can watch this seminar? |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2014 : 04:05:30
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| Aye, a Youtube vid would rock. Anyone take notes for lore purposes? hehehe |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2014 : 14:34:04
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| We were sworn to secrecy on a number of items, which is why I don't think there's any video of the event. And I can't say anymore or the James Brothers are duty-bound to hunt me down and take back my copy of the Grand History of the Realms. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2014 : 14:46:41
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Filming the event may cause undue heartache from the powers-that-be at Hasbro. We talk about the Realms, have discussions with the crowd, and provide content (this year included a special surprise packet from George Krashos, as well as a never-before-seen short story written by Steven Schend, orated by Ed Greenwood!).
Next year will have even more. In fact, Garen Thal has already released the theme and I have already begun outlining a special short adventure (5th ed) for participants. |
Edited by - Matt James on 19 Aug 2014 14:49:02 |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2014 : 16:29:06
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Discussions, content, secrets, stories and surprise packets? Very nice! Lucky dogs. ;)
Now the real question, was this a secret meeting of the Harpers or the dreaded Zhentarim? hehehe |
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angerZen
Acolyte
USA
24 Posts |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 03:00:38
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I'm with you BEAST, not being allowed to film a public event for fear of letting out 'secrets' discussed (in an open forum) and causing heartache to the powers that be at Hasbro is stupid.
Another nail in the coffin Wizbro. Paizo continues to be the better company IMHO. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 03:19:59
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| Folks, I think that bashing WotC because a non-WotC person is being cautious is just plain going overboard. I'd really prefer to see people save their ire for when WotC -- or anyone else, for that matter -- truly deserves it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 03:45:11
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Another nail in the coffin Wizbro. Paizo continues to be the better company IMHO.
If you think about it, WotC could have just as easily objected to the event occuring.
People might have met anyway, but why cause strain in the relationship between WotC and its freelancers where none is needed?
Small steps man, small steps. I think this one was a step in the right direction, because if WotC sees it get more and more popular, there might not be as many constraints next time.
Accentuate the positive, you know?  |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 03:56:13
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| Yeah, I'm cool with it too. This is just a guess, but chances are we'll know any juicy secrets in the coming weeks or months too. I've learned to be extremely patient in the last ten years or so. :) |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 04:56:54
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It's better to provide 'stuff' with no fanfare and without causing WotC's spidey sense to tingle.
As noted, keep your eyes peeled.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 05:03:10
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It's just that I've never been into all the cloak-and-dagger stuff (RW--not in world). It stifles communication between the knowers and know-nots, breeds jealousy/envy of the knowers, then breeds resentment towards the knowers and the secret-demanders. All too often, it means somebody is trying to get away with something and doesn't want to get caught. "Dissing the average guy" gets Orwellian double-spoken as "respecting the authority of the big guy".
I wish things could be above-board and open-book. Just lay it out there, with pride and excitement. Make your competition shrivel because of your boldness and quality. Don't make your own peeps whisper in the shadows and cower in fear of being found out.
I'm fine with things temporarily being held behind NDA pending publication. Don't want to water down the impact of an upcoming (hopefully big) release.
But if it needs to be that secret, then why discuss it all?
OTOH, if it's OK to discuss it publicly, then why isn't it OK to film it and webcast it publicly?
Bah!
To those of you who were willing to make the sacrifices to participate in the Realmsian festivities at GenCon, I salute you--in jealousy, and not with resentment.
To those of you who claw and scratch to find whatever way to connect with the fans that you can, despite the business constraints and NDAs and all the other worries, I salute you, as well.
To those of you who prop up the system of secrecy as if there's nothing wrong with it, I hear there's a funny dragon over in another scroll waiting for you... |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 05:32:54
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I haven't bashed anything. I stated an honest opinion of ire at a company that just doesn't seem to 'get it' no matter how much time passes or how many mistakes are made.
It was a public forum and yet they 'swore everyone to secrecy'? Really? They've failed, repeatedly, on their marketing until they released the free Lite version of the PHB...which, as I've said before, WAS good move on their part.
I've said in these forums MANY times that I'm in a 'wait and see' mode and that Ed's enthusiasm gives me hope. Well, I've been waiting...and so far what I'm seeing isn't stellar. All may turn out to be well and if that happens I will gladly sing their praises again. But I've been extremely cautious with Wizbro since the release of 4e and it's not going to change until I can clearly see a change of direction for the Realms (I really don't care about the rules themselves).
Overall, I liked the Sundering series but only one of those novels really stood out to me (The Adversary). The Companions was good as well but then most of RAS writing is decent. But the series failed, for the most part anyway, to reveal much of anything regarding the actual Sundering. I'm hoping this will be remedied in later novels and that the Realms returns (mostly) to its roots.
But I remain skeptical. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 05:49:16
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| I agree with you Arcanamach about the Sundering. The novels were good in themselves, but I don't think they measured up to the hype they created. I really wish this seminar was available online or something, because this secrecy is like saying "you couldn't come, so you must not be a true fan. Sucks for you!" Why were they sworn to secrecy, may I ask? |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 05:55:17
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They seriously swore everyone to secrecy? ROFL.
Way to keep the insider-outsider division going strong. If it's NDA, no one should have discussed it at all.
If it's not NDA, then the only reason to swear the room to secrecy is to make attendees feel like special insider snowflakes and keep non-attendees in the dark. It's just plain childish and poor business. Can't say I'm surprised, though. Good businesses use convention meetings to spread excitement by word of mouth.
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 06:00:20
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Seriously?
God forbid people are allowed to enjoy themselves just a little bit.
Seems to me like the only special snowflakes are the ones demanding access after the fact to an event they either couldn't make or didn't think was worth going to.
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Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 20 Aug 2014 06:00:48 |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 06:54:41
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First part of post deleted so as not to descend into a personal argument. But I'm not a friggin 'snowflake' for wanting information.
What Eltheron is essentially saying is there isn't a good reason to ask folks not to discuss the conversation. Anything they don't want revealed should have been kept under wraps...otherwise it should be freely shared. It's not asking much, especially since the brand has been floundering compared to 5+ years ago.
They dropped the ball...AGAIN. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 07:34:22
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Okay, I'm going to chime in here:
This is the third year of the Candlekeep Presents seminars (the first one, Candlekeep Zero, was an informal gathering at the bar). No one has ever been told they could not film the seminar because no one has ever asked to film the seminar. Not one. We have folks that do podcasts attend, and they haven't asked to record, either. That said, Candlekeep Presents is not a "public event." It's a ticketed event at GenCon, run for the fans that attend it. Which means that if someone did ask to film it (no one has), and we told them we would rather they didn't (which we haven't), we would technically have every right to do so (GenCon's policy releasing attendee's likeness applies to GenCon, not to attendees choosing to record; most of us only have the unlimited right to photo/record in the Exhibit Hall). I'll be honest, though: it's likely that I would say "no," if only to make the folks that come to share their professional experiences working on the Realms more comfortable.
We ask only two things of our attendees: that they be respectful of one another and of the work that people have done on the Realms--because badmouthing a particular product is downright embarrassing when one of its creators is in the room--and that any printed material we distribute not be scanned or transcribed and shared online. The second is because the moment that happens, Wizards has the perfect right to make a copyright argument against us, and I refuse to have this safe space for fans of the Forgotten Realms be disrupted because we were overeager in our sharing. Since sometimes this material is written by folks who have signed NDAs (George this year, Ed last year), and either contains unpublished Realms material or is based on such material, we have to take this precaution. People are free to discuss their own experiences at, or recollections of, the seminar.
No one is sworn to secrecy. No one is asked to take an oath or sign anything, to give blood samples or cheek swabs, promise their firstborn children or dance around an altar three times or say the secret password. The only qualification to be part of the discussion is to show up.
And nothing about upcoming products was discussed at this year's seminar at all. Anyone with such knowledge either works for the company or has signed an NDA, and knows better than to talk about such things. Any 'privileged' information is about long out-of-print products. Even then, a non-disclosure agreement that doesn't say that it's okay to discuss something after publication is still a legally-binding agreement, no matter how long ago it came out. Individuals make their own judgments about what they will or won't share. But I'm not going to make it a point to put them on the spot by recording it, because there will be people who simply don't come or won't share on the panel.
Long story short/TL;DR: Before complaining about the double-secret nature of the event (which, of course, it's not), it might help to ask the organizer (me) about it.
Which brings me to the other part of this threat: the sniping at WotC. Everything about the Candlekeep Presents event--the time, day of the week, the theme, the pins and other giveaways, the structure of the time, the description of the event in the catalog, invitation of guests--in the end, that all goes through me. WotC has zero say on the content of our seminar. If you have a problem with anyone, the problem is with me, not with WotC. I set the agenda. I ask the panel to join us at the front of the room. I collect the tickets and organize the fundraisers and ask for WotC to donate books for us to give away, and I'm the one that makes the decisions about how to deal with things like making sure Hasbro doesn't bring the legal hammer down on us and shut us down for future years, make a statement that they are "exploring [their] options" with regard to legal action, or--worst of all--decide that a particular creator can no longer work in the Realms because they violated a past agreement or transgressed the company's copyright.
The bottom line is this: If you want to be upset with anyone for keeping secrets, that comes from me, so be upset with me. If you want to say someone dropped the ball (although I can't see how), that's me, too. My event means my rules and my responsibility. If you have a problem with how it's being run, then come to me.
I was coming to the boards to post my own thanks and summary of the event, but I think I'll save that for later, when I'm not so utterly angry and insulted. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe a good while after that. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 07:42:14
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Ugh...never mind.
[EDIT] Just saw Garen's post. You guys that like to complain...I hope next time you'll try to understand what it is you're talking about before going off half cocked and firing another shot at WotC because, you know, WotC. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 20 Aug 2014 08:14:40 |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 08:18:13
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Not trying to be argumentative but your issue should be with the individual who stated that folks were 'sworn to secrecy' (a direct quote). That threw the thread way off topic.
You weren't attacked, not even indirectly. It was all directed at WotC because of said 'sworn to secrecy' statement. So you really shouldn't feel insulted. It wasn't meant towards you at all. AT ALL.
I will continue to share my opinions freely as they are rarely directed at any one individual and NEVER meant to be argumentative (which is rather different from some folks at CK). And for the record, I don't 'go off half-cocked at WotC because, you know, WotC' for the sake of, well you know, WotC. I make my statements based on a valid sentiment that hasn't changed (yet) because so far there hasn't been enough done to change it.
Again, as I've said in numerous threads I'm in a 'wait and see' mode and am hopeful because of Ed's enthusiasm.
I won't apologize for my opinions or the comments I've made. Not because I'm obtuse about it, but because when I made my comments it was because of the impression given by the quote I gave. What I WILL do is admit that I was (apparently) in error and adjust my comments accordingly.
I do recognize that the panel members have to be careful what they reveal...but then that wasn't in question. Only the notion that folks were 'sworn to secrecy' was.
I recognize that the folks on the panel are donating their time to be there. They should be celebrated for attending. But, again, that wasn't in question.
I also recognize the need to dance around legal issues in order to continue to be permitted to have similar panels in the future. But again this wasn't in question.
Had the secrecy comment not been made my comments would have been very different. I WILL apologize for my part in causing this thread, which was meant to be a Thank You to the attendees and panelists, to derail into a negative comments section.
Cheers. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 09:09:15
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Not trying to be argumentative but your issue should be with the individual who stated that folks were 'sworn to secrecy' (a direct quote). That threw the thread way off topic.
That wasn't the problem.
The problem is that people thought this scroll was the appropriate place to complain.
It wasn't. Not by a long shot.
Anyone who felt otherwise should have started another scroll, and they should have started it with questions seeking clarification, not complaints.
People are way too quick to jump into complaint mode around here, and the forums suffer for it. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 09:12:37
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To be clear, 'sworn to secrecy' equates to don't disseminate some of the information/material provided at the seminar to the world at large because the Internet lets you and pronounce "I got all this stuff from the 2014 Candlekeep Seminar".
The Seminar is at the current time not a WotC-sanctioned event. They know it happens and are happy for fans of the Realms to get together and discuss the campaign setting, but no more than that.
All attendees were provided with a copy of an Impiltur Timeline that I put together. I hope in time (a short time) that I will get it out to the Candlekeep community and Realms fans at large. I don't want that process to in any way impinge upon the Seminar and the work that people like Garen Thal, Eric Scott de Bie and the James brothers do for that event. In other words, if WotC have a problem with me using their IP then I and the organizers of the Seminar don't want that problem correlating with the Candlekeep Seminar. The attendees who received one were asked to respect that and not talk about what they got and where they got it or disclose it's content.
It's not secrecy for the sake of secrecy or to in any way to appear elitist. It is simply a matter of being prudent and respectful of the potential legalities and negative fallout of such a situation. To do otherwise is to be naive and arrogant in the extreme. I've been both in my time on this planet. I don't like to make a habit of it.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 09:21:43
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quote:
That wasn't the problem.
The problem is that people thought this scroll was the appropriate place to complain.
Ackknowledged, hence this...
quote:
I WILL apologize for my part in causing this thread, which was meant to be a Thank You to the attendees and panelists, to derail into a negative comments section.
I do appreciate the clarification provided by Garen and GK. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
Edited by - The Arcanamach on 20 Aug 2014 09:22:55 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 12:34:31
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I have to very much agree with Jeremy, here. Assumptions were made, based on limited data, and people got mad because of incomplete information and assumptions. And it certainly does appear that some of this anger was directed at WotC simply because they have pissed off a lot of us in the past.
We have succeeded at pissing off someone who put his own time and effort into making a gathering just for us. We have succeeded in making this community look bad.
I'm not going point fingers or assign blame; what's done is done, and continuing down that path is just wasting energy.
Instead, I am going to ask -- once again -- that people do two things:
Make sure you have all the relevant information before reacting/forming an opinion.
Make sure that anger, if warranted, is directed at the appropriate source. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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2014 Candlekeep Seminar thank you
