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 Oranges in the Realms!
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe

264 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2014 :  19:19:27  Show Profile  Visit Darkheyr's Homepage Send Darkheyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Due to a small project on a FR NWN persistant world a question came up: Where are oranges found, if at all, in the Realms? I haven't really been successful in research so far, sadly.

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Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2014 :  21:53:37  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
‘Ockles’ in Waterdeep are oranges from the Shining South coasts (that is, Estagund, Durpar, and thereabouts) that grow in long strings of attached globes, looking more like strands of pearls than fruit. Except for this configuration, they pretty much ARE what we real-world eaters would recognize as oranges.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7966 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2014 :  00:50:34  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've heard tall tales about oranges on our own world. Apparently originally native to somewhere around the Baltic Mediterranean, Ukraine, or India regions. But trans-Atlantic sailors - once they realized the anti-scurvy value of citrus fruits - would stock up heavily before leaving port, ration oranges to each man each day, carefully save the seeds, and deliberately plant them anywhere they touched ashore for resupply. Over time, so the story goes, wild citrus trees grew and prospered in warmer regions (although oranges proved more sturdy than lemons and limes, overall) ... and now such plants are a flourishing agricultural product in much of North America. Obviously, modern agricultural practices must have also greatly accelerated the distribution and selection seen in today's orange crops.

Dunno if it's true, but it's a fine tale in its own way. And might've been mirrored in the Realms - as so many other things from our world have been.

[/Ayrik]
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe

264 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2014 :  15:39:31  Show Profile  Visit Darkheyr's Homepage Send Darkheyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
*nod* The fruits-against-scurvy thing is known to me, and it's what we're going with either case. What we were wondering though was where they'd originally come from in the Realms.

That tidbit about ockles is great, Faraer, thanks - where did you find that?

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6641 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2014 :  19:06:27  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The reference to ockles is from Ed's replies here at Candlekeep.

There are mentions of various citrus fruits in the sources.

The orosk is noted as being a cross between an orange and a tangerine (Dragon#267, p.81) and there is another fruit called an orauth that is from Var the Golden (Elminster Speaks web compilation, p.59) that is likely citrus also.

In terms of where citrus would be grown, I'd say at the drop of a hat: Tethyr, Turmish and the Tashalar. The Shining South would be a good bet too.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 23 Jul 2014 19:06:51
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe

264 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2014 :  13:44:43  Show Profile  Visit Darkheyr's Homepage Send Darkheyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I really should have thought of actively searching for CITRUS, not just oranges. Thanks folks.

FWIW, apparently, Thay merchants export citrus all over the place, and Luiren is a source as well. Cormyr apparently imports them, meaning they are to be had there for sale, at least.


Shining South seems spot on, thanks George.

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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1265 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2014 :  20:33:16  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I thought there was references to orange groves in the Harper Novel Red Magic on the Thay/Aglarond border?
The main characters ran through one to inflitrate Thay. I believe the Red Wizards used magic to have favorable weather for their crops.
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2420 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2014 :  15:08:11  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd say there would be a citrus industry in Tethyr, maybe even Amn as they have the shortest delivery time to the North.
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2420 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2014 :  00:36:23  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

I'd say there would be a citrus industry in Tethyr, maybe even Amn as they have the shortest delivery time to the North.



I don't know how to link to it with this system, but Ed did a great write up on citrus fruits in response to a 2004 question. There are several unique realms varieties described.
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2420 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2014 :  00:46:25  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm just going to copy and paste it:

There are publishing plans, I’m afraid, that prevent me from providing any exhaustive catalogue of fruits here. Here are some highlights.

The severe climate of the North means very little fresh fruit is available in winter (after freeze-up, when ships stop sailing into Waterdeep and other ports) except in processed (jams, brandies, pickled or honeyed) form. Berries (literally hundreds of different sorts) and apples are the main fruit native to the North. There’s also a savoury (not sweet) fruit native to, and cultivated in, the North known as the sarsae. Sarsae are tough-skinned and hardy, with a mottled green skin that darkens from yellow-white as it ripens, firm yellow-white flesh similar to that of some real-world apples, and an almost cheese-like, but tart, taste. Sarsae are used as we real-world folk would use tomatoes, and vary widely in size depending on how wet the warm growing months are, and how much sun they get (edible, unshrivelled sarsae may be as small as real-world golf balls, or as large as real-world volleyballs, with most of them being about the size of a softball).
One curiosity of the North is ‘firefruit’ (sometimes called ‘amberglows’). These are small, succulent golden berries, very hard-skinned but filled with a semi-liquid as sweet as honey but fruity in flavour, that grow every three or four years on certain mosses and lichens, when these growths flower. Most mosses and lichens never bear such fruit, and only rangers and other experts on the flora of the area are usually able to tell which of the rare sorts of fungi will bear firefruit. When seen, protruding from hair-thin stalks out of the scabrous fungi, they can be eaten with surety, because there’s nothing poisonous or inedible that looks like firefruit.
Another culinary peculiarity of the North are ‘snowberries,’ which grow in profusion in the Fallen Lands and near Glister in the Moonsea North, but can be found everywhere in the Sword Coast North. Heavily grazed by birds and animals of all sorts, these aren’t a single variety of fruit but rather a rangers’ (and Uthgardt barbarians’) classification of many sorts of vines and bushes whose berries remain quite pleasant and edible when frozen - - and so can readily be eaten when found under ice and snow in the howling hearts of winter blizzards.

Many larders in the North, Sword Coast, and Heartlands hold wax-sealed jars of apple and berry jams and jellies, marmalade, pickled whole quinces and lemons (chopped up and used in cooking; almost never eaten whole, and honeyed figs.
Ships bring all of these processed foods (usually in large barrels, with the jarring being done in the ports where the ships unload) from warmer climes, and also bring fresh fruit in season.
One of the most popular such fruit - - popular because it travels so well (resisting rot and bruising, and is little loved by shipboard rats, hence only lightly nibbled), AND because it has such a long growing season, with fruits ripening for use from Flamerule through Marpenoth - - is the tammar, native to Calimshan, the hills around the Lake of Steam, and the Border Kingdoms. Tammar are small, round, hard fruit (about the size of a lacrosse or squash ball). The pink (when unripe) to crimson (when ripe; they go black when overripe) peel or rind is inedible and very hard to ‘knocks,’ but can readily be cut and then peeled (slowly, in a spiral one-layer-after-another tearing open) to reveal firm, chewy pink flesh that tastes something like real-world tangerines or clementines. This flesh is juicy when chewed, but isn’t as ‘wet’ with running juice when revealed as that of tangerines or clementines, and is split into only four segments (more like ‘buds’ of garlic in sturdiness and shape than the many smaller lobes of most real-world citrus fruit).
A lime-like fruit called a ‘quace’ is also abundant in the coastlands of the Shining Sea (in other words, in all the areas the tammar flourishes in plus Lapaliiya and the Tashalar), but is very easily bruised and very strong (acidic) in taste. Except in various bottled sauces, it’s little known in the North.
‘Ockles’ in Waterdeep are oranges from the Shining South coasts (that is, Estagund, Durpar, and thereabouts) that grow in long strings of attached globes, looking more like strands of pearls than fruit. Except for this configuration, they pretty much ARE what we real-world eaters would recognize as oranges.
All over the southern lands, pomegranates grow wild, and are sometimes shipped to the Heartlands and the Sword Coast North when a ship has extra space (they command low prices, but can be picked almost for free throughout the warm lands (the Shaar, of course, excluded); many southerners boil them to make sauces or dyes rather than eating them as fruit). In the Realms, however, the word ‘pomegranate’ is unknown; to folk of Faerun, these are ‘araed’ (as with sarsae, tammar, and quace, singular and plural the same; thus, ‘a basket of araed’ and ‘I ate an araed’ or ‘Cut up two araed’).
The other fruit imported into the Sword Coast lands and Heartlands from late summer to freeze-up (most of them can be kept for some months, if buried under earth or leaf mulch in a cool cellar to keep them from freezing) are melons of various sorts. The most popular three types of melons are ramrath, mritha-fruit, and tlarm-melons.
The ramrath is a reddish, round (volleyball-sized) melon grown in the Tashalar. Its flesh is firm and scarlet, and it can be used as we use watermelons, or sliced and fried (with the rind removed) to make a slab-of-cake-like fruit served on platters topped with desserts (confections of creams and syrups and more decorative fruit). Never say “ramraths,” by the way, unless you really mean to. ‘Ramrath’ is the plural form of the fruit, whereas ‘ramraths’ is a euphemism for human breasts (both female and the large pectorals possessed by fat men).
Many shiploads of mritha-fruit and tlarm-melons are exported from Lundeth. Mritha-fruit are very like apples, but with sweet, acidic citrus-like juices at their hearts. Their skins are pale pink, and grow many reddish streaks and mottlings as they ripen. They can be eaten at any stage from pink to when they become ‘all over red,’ and although their early edibility has nourished many hungry Northerners who eagerly buy them from the first shipcaptains to brave breakup (of the sea-ice), most folk swear by the rich, strong, almost (black) licorice taste they get, from Eleasias on, when fully reddened.
Tlarm-melons are large, oval, green with streaks of darker green (think real-world watermelons in outer size and hue) fruit that have golden-yellow flesh. They taste almost like real-world rhubarb (which, by the way, is also found growing wild in abundance, in the Heartlands), and have very thick white inedible rinds that can be boiled down to make a glue or caulking, and that keep them very well protected against bruising and rotting. Tlarm-melons ripen late (Eleint), but are so numerous then that tlarm-flesh alone could feed almost everyone in the North (though they’d soon be sick of a steady diet of only tlarm, of course) if some way could be found to ship it all. Many farmers along the Shining South coasts gorge themselves on tlarm-melons, fill their cellars with tlarm-preserves, compete with each other to make tlarm soups and stews that taste like something else - - and still have wagonloads of tlarm that they plow under as fertilizer. That’s one of the reasons that the South is where spices are big business (and a wide variety of strong spices are gleamed from local plants).
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe

264 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2014 :  11:40:57  Show Profile  Visit Darkheyr's Homepage Send Darkheyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Totally missed your second reply there, Mage. Belated thanks :) Very useful for us.

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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2420 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2014 :  17:43:44  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My pleasure.
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