Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 What needs to happen to make you happy with 5e FR?
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 4

ZeshinX
Learned Scribe

Canada
210 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2014 :  19:19:19  Show Profile  Visit ZeshinX's Homepage Send ZeshinX a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I like having Kelemvor as the god of death better than Myrkul. The god of death should be more nuetral in alignment, IMO.



Agreed. I would like Myrkul back though, but taking Velsharoon's place along with a good chunk of the rest of his portfolio that no one else has.

"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage
Go to Top of Page

Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe

USA
495 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2014 :  18:03:51  Show Profile Send Old Man Harpell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ZeshinX

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I like having Kelemvor as the god of death better than Myrkul. The god of death should be more nuetral in alignment, IMO.


Agreed. I would like Myrkul back though, but taking Velsharoon's place along with a good chunk of the rest of his portfolio that no one else has.


My guess is that they plan to restore Velsharoon as well. It would make an interesting 'triumvirate' - Kelemvor (the dead), Myrkul (undeath and the undead), and Velsharoon (necromancy and death magic).

There's some slight overlap, but nothing they can't deal with if they go that route. Enough difference exists in those portfolios that they aren't going to be constantly stepping on each other's toes.
Go to Top of Page

LordofBones
Master of Realmslore

1477 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2014 :  18:33:45  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Myrkul never even had the undeath portfolio. The actual deity of undeath and necromancers was Orcus, and Orcus was dead during Velsharoon's ascension.

Myrkul was never a god of necromancy. He was worshipped by necromancers, yes, but he was never explicitly a god of necromancy in the sense that Velsharoon was. He never cared one way or the other for the study of death magic, the creation and development of undead creatures, or the metaphysical side of necromancy.
Go to Top of Page

Seethyr
Master of Realmslore

USA
1151 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2014 :  20:28:00  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've seen a lot of Cyric hate on this thread and I'm wondering why. I read the Avatar Trilogy decades ago so I don't remember much about it but I remember Prince of Lies and Crucible like I read them yesterday because I LOVED those books. What makes Cyric so unlikeable for Realms fans? Is he a symbol representative of too many RSEs and we are all venting on him or is it the character himself?

Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!

The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2014 :  21:27:38  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr

I've seen a lot of Cyric hate on this thread and I'm wondering why. I read the Avatar Trilogy decades ago so I don't remember much about it but I remember Prince of Lies and Crucible like I read them yesterday because I LOVED those books. What makes Cyric so unlikeable for Realms fans? Is he a symbol representative of too many RSEs and we are all venting on him or is it the character himself?



For me, it's the character himself. He's almost a tragic character, until you realize it's his own character flaws and lack of courage that led to his fall to evil. He had the chance to be a good guy, and he opted against it, because he didn't have the courage to do the right thing.

And his later ascension was not earned; he was simply being opportunistic and trying to seize power for himself, for the sheer sake of having it.

Once a deity, he lost one of his portfolios due to inattention and obsession with finding Kelemvor's soul. And he only wanted that as a way to act against Mystra. Then came the whole Cyrinishad debacle, where yet another attempt to grasp for power blew up in his face.

Cyric is a petty, spiteful, opportunistic git. He is not interesting; he is a petty thug who succeeded due to being in the right place at the right time.

Were it not for becoming a deity, Cyric would have likely become nothing more than a lieutenant in a thieves' guild, and would have had a dagger or three in his back before he could rise higher.

Cyric is one of the most boring, uninteresting characters I've read about, and his ascension to godhood is the only reason he has any prominence in the setting. If not for that, he'd be as well-known to Realms fans as 2-1B is to Star Wars fans.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 Jul 2014 21:28:20
Go to Top of Page

LordofBones
Master of Realmslore

1477 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2014 :  21:45:28  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cyric is the Loki of the Realms, except Loki was interesting.

I'm still wondering why the Council of Greater Powers didn't simply obliterate the git for kicking off a cataclysm that even Talos wouldn't have tried attempting.
Go to Top of Page

Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2014 :  22:35:08  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cyric is a symbol, if you like, of TSR's treatment of Realms religion. He's primarily a novel character, a person, and a petulant and unimpressive one, given powers and trappings of godhood. He represents the shifting of attention from the priesthoods to the gods themselves, in which what started off as a narrative conceit in the Avatar trilogy turned into the prevalent concept for many designers of what the gods were. Moreover, he and Kelemvor are thin, inferior replacements for Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul, whose priesthoods were integrated and developed parts of the Realms but were removed from it before their mythology, ritual, organization and magic had been properly detailed in print. That too became one of the patterns of the publishing of the Realms, whereby characters would age and die before their stories had started to be told. Cyric and Kelemvor are decent novel characters -- of a particular voguish neurotic sort -- but indifferent deities, that is, transcendent mysteries and foci of Faerûnian priesthoods.

Edited by - Faraer on 24 Jul 2014 22:38:58
Go to Top of Page

Eltheron
Senior Scribe

740 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2014 :  23:10:19  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cyric is not Loki, not in any way shape or form - other than being incredibly annoying.

In essence, Cyric is a representation of the munchkin player, the god-modder, the ultimate power-tripping roleplayer. He obtains massive power, godly weapons, and stabs everyone in the back as he climbs his little mountain. He is the player that shows up with every special magical power and magic item, pulling what he needs out of a hat and winning with little effort. He makes all the other players and NPCs irrelevant because of who and what he is, and his constant annoying demand for center-stage attention. How did he get all this amazing stuff? Well, his DM was a "Monty Haul" DM basically. And he also killed all of his friends (the other players) and took all their stuff. Because: ha ha!

In the Realms, Cyric becomes a greater god and initially takes the powers and mantle of not just one other deity but three. Yet for years and years through AD&D and beyond, we were told that becoming a deity was probably impossible - or at the very least, it was an incredibly slow, stepwise, deeply arduous process over one's entire lifetime. Beyond the acquisition of power, you had to gather faithful, you had to gain the attention and support of another deity just to be considered for demi-god status. You had to win through a lifetime's worth of incredibly difficult encounters in order to gain power and a following. When you were "ready" and had attained amazing 9th-level powers and legions of people who worshiped you (either out of love or fear), then and only then would you be considered for ascension to demi-god status. Then, by winning through interplanar conflicts and solving cosmic-level mysteries, and if your worship had spread enough in the mortal world, you might... might!... become a lesser deity.

Not Cyric! He bothers with none of that at all. AO the Overdeity (who didn't exist before this novel, aka Monty Haul) steps in and just awards him GREATER deity status, instant worldwide worshipers, and THREE godly portfolios and their domains to this gutter-dwelling schmuck of a mortal loser named Cyric. BOOM! And AO does this despite the fact that Cyric relied almost entirely on Mask (as the Godslayer weapon).

If that's not bad enough, Cyric replaced three deities who were far better and far more interesting and useful in every way. And those deities, we are told through stories and various lore, actually had to work, gain power, attract followers, and even confront gods in order to win their ascensions. Where they earned their divinity, Cyric was given his.

Everything about Cyric and his ascension is and was offensive. And even more importantly, none of it is organic to the lives of mortals in the Realms. Very suddenly, without really any notice, if you worshiped Bane or Bhaal or Myrkul... well, you're now a Cyric worshiper. Don't like this new deity? Well, too bad... lose all your powers and start over with some other deity, you silly priest. At the time, we never even really saw any discussions between mortals about what the changes all meant for life in the everyday Realms. Overnight, if you lose three deities that have been around for thousands of years and insta-replace them with a single new deity of mostly unknown character (because most mortals didn't have access to the novels), you'd think this would dramatically affect mortal life. Even ONE new demi-god ascending should have a significant impact on mortal life. But we got next to nothing.

And now, guess what? Cyric is a featured deity of the Sundering. WotC knew people hated Cyric with a passion (even since the TSR days), but there he is - smack in the middle of a series that's supposed to be giving us a glimpse of the 5E Realms-to-be. Welcome back, Cyric, you god-modding munchkin wretch!

So long as Cyric is a major power, so long as he is featured in novels or adventures involve his worshipers, I will not buy Realms products. Keeping Cyric was a gigantic mistake, not only because of what he is as a deity but for what he represents in the world. At least in 2E and early 3E, our gaming group could pretend that the ToT never actually happened and still feel like we were playing in the living Realms. Now, you can't ignore Cyric.



"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer

Edited by - Eltheron on 24 Jul 2014 23:48:18
Go to Top of Page

Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2014 :  23:56:06  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron

And guess what, Cyric is a featured deity of the Sundering. WotC knew people hated Cyric with a passion (even since the TSR days),
I’m not aware of any statement from WotC or any other reputable source that says beyond doubt that all or most Realms fans hate Cyric to the point that they don’t want to see the deity anymore.

As much as people might rail about Cyric on the internet (something I’ve seen a lot of, admittedly), he’s popular enough to have books written about him that apparently they sold well enough to be reprinted.

Personally I’m not a fan (though poor Malik is teh awesome), but that doesn’t matter because it’s not WotC’s job to give me everything I want.

As far as I can tell, WotC is not guilty of ignoring a consensus opinion of the Realms community here.

quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron

Now, you can't ignore Cyric.
Of course you can ignore Cyric in the 5E Realms. That hasn’t changed.

While Farear wrote a good summary of TSR’s treatment of religion in the Realms, I don’t think the conclusion one ought to draw from it is to get rid of Cyric. Rather, it’s good reason for WotC to change their tune vis-à-vis deities in general, and have Ed (and whomever else is interested) flesh out the faith and make it interesting.

Personally, I hope that Cyric and his worshippers are hounded and harassed in the post-Sundering Realms, that they’re universally regarded as trouble worth stamping out by all faiths, and that they’re both resilient and deadly enough to make all wary. It would be interesting to learn about the renewed faiths of Bhaal and Myrkul (assuming they’re coming back; I don’t know for sure) as they work to eradicate the faithful of Cyric.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
Go to Top of Page

CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2708 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2014 :  00:44:18  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I liked Cyric in the Avatar trilogy. Now I love to hate him, just as I love to hate Lolth and Shar.

Sweet water and light laughter
Go to Top of Page

Seethyr
Master of Realmslore

USA
1151 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2014 :  00:46:15  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Holy crap, saying Cyric's name was like bringing up politics or religion on a first date.

I feel everyone's pain about this unqualified usurper but I'll stand by my statement that the two novels (Prince of Lies and Crucible) were still awesome even if this character was not.

I also think there there were some great ways to "fix" him mentioned above. I love the thought of Bane, Myrkul and Bhaal having their worshiper hunt down and kill almost all of Cyric's faithful condemning the god to simply fade away to barely a whisper. What a fitting end that would be to a deity that did not truly earn his position and station. After all, at that point he would have only held it for a little over a century...a blip in the eyes of immortals. The natural order of things then could fix themselves, with no Ao necessary to set it all right.

Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!

The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign

Edited by - Seethyr on 25 Jul 2014 00:47:33
Go to Top of Page

Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1446 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2014 :  00:56:52  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cyric doesn't need to go anywhere, it's a shared world after all. I've never particularly cared for him as a deity myself, but with Bane returned, Bhaal resurrected and I believe Myrkul returning, his days are numbered. I could see him as a lesser deity though, once the old school trio of doom get back into the swing of things and give him and his followers the smack down.
Go to Top of Page

Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2014 :  01:23:49  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus

Cyric doesn't need to go anywhere, it's a shared world after all. I've never particularly cared for him as a deity myself, but with Bane returned, Bhaal resurrected and I believe Myrkul returning, his days are numbered. I could see him as a lesser deity though, once the old school trio of doom get back into the swing of things and give him and his followers the smack down.



This. It is easy to ignore things that you dislike, it is painful to see what you love about the setting getting deleted (and this comes from someone who doesn't like Cyric). Inclusiveness has been said to be the catch-word for 5e, I hope they stay true to it with the changes they intend to bring in with the Sundering.

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.

Edited by - Irennan on 25 Jul 2014 01:25:15
Go to Top of Page

Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2014 :  01:47:33  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Likewise, I wouldn't make a yet further event to remove Cyric, I'd just quietly lessen his divine status and not say much about him except in the context of a detailed book on religion.
Go to Top of Page

ksu_bond
Learned Scribe

New Zealand
214 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2014 :  02:27:59  Show Profile Send ksu_bond a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I also hope they take the fade away approach with Cyric and that he ultimately becomes a vestige...in fact I've been debating how I would treat him with the return of the Dark Three, and whether it is done in canon or not he will ultimately fade and become a vestige in my home campaign (unless of course the powers that be can provide a more convincing alternative end).
Go to Top of Page

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6638 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2014 :  02:43:20  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just hope they provide a ton of realmslore in mouse font.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
Go to Top of Page

Artemel
Learned Scribe

USA
110 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2014 :  02:59:02  Show Profile  Visit Artemel's Homepage Send Artemel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I just hope they provide a ton of realmslore in mouse font.

-- George Krashos



Darn it, George! I'm getting old and my eyesight isn't what it once was... can we get that ton of Realmslore in bigger and less squeaky font please?
Go to Top of Page

sfdragon
Great Reader

2285 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2014 :  05:47:16  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
you mean like rat font???

just like mouse font, it squeaks. Its just a wee bit bigger

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
Go to Top of Page

Eltheron
Senior Scribe

740 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2014 :  13:16:10  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I see a lot of people paying lip service to this idea of "keep everything" inclusiveness. But then half a breath later, they'll say, "even though I really don't like ___ personally."

When the "keep everything" 5e Realms come out, will you actually buy it if it contains a large number of things you "don't really like personally"? IMO it's better to be completely honest with WotC and tell them what will prevent you from buying their products.






"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer
Go to Top of Page

Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2014 :  13:46:14  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I did tell -multiple times now- what will get me to buy their products, but to me it's mainly based on bringing back what I hold dear and that was taken away, rather than getting rid of stuff. There are elements that I dislike, but in those cases to me the value of the material boils down to how much weight they are given.

For example, Thay can be given back its Zulkirs while still retaining Tam and his reign of undeath, featuring something like living red wizards trying to take back their land. You would get two factions, a new plot hook and keep both aspects of Thay. However if they do this and then the material is all/mainly about Tam, then I won't care about buying it.

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.

Edited by - Irennan on 25 Jul 2014 13:50:34
Go to Top of Page

Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2014 :  14:28:58  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron

When the "keep everything" 5e Realms come out, will you actually buy it if it contains a large number of things you "don't really like personally"?
Yes, because I've been doing that for nearly thirty fricking years now.

Even though, for example, they turned the 2E Realms into the "everything and the kitchen sink" setting because the rule back then was "if it's in D&D, it's in the Realms."

All that shoehorning, all that slow-burn of adding things into the setting from other worlds and all the planes (doing over years what 4E did with the snap of a finger)...2E produced a lot of crap, and I still bought quite a few products. Not all, but most.

Like Diffan said in another thread, purchasing Realms products is to purchase options.

It's important to discover and to experiment, to try things out even if you think you won't like them.

I'm old enough that I know a great deal of what I do and don't like, and I like to think I'm experienced enough to assess a book, sourcebook or module and say yes or no to it.

But I sure as hell won't say no to the Realms just because they do something so utterly minor as to include a single deity I'm not the biggest fan of.

That may be enough for some people, but not for me.

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I just hope they provide a ton of realmslore in mouse font.
Only if they include reading glasses with it. Gonna have to be a boxed set, then.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).

Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 25 Jul 2014 16:10:27
Go to Top of Page

Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1446 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2014 :  16:37:39  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron

I see a lot of people paying lip service to this idea of "keep everything" inclusiveness. But then half a breath later, they'll say, "even though I really don't like ___ personally."

When the "keep everything" 5e Realms come out, will you actually buy it if it contains a large number of things you "don't really like personally"? IMO it's better to be completely honest with WotC and tell them what will prevent you from buying their products.



Sure I'll buy things for 5E Realms. I may not care for Cyric very much, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't take a map of the Twin Towers of the Eternal Eclipse and an adventure to raid the place and lore on its citizens and clergy etc.

More lore just adds to the toolbox. And the certain things we never liked in the first place like the Underchasm (fixed now) and the gods all going bye-bye (also fixed), we just ignored or changed to suit our needs.

There's nothing wrong with being honest to WotC about what a person will or will not buy, I'd just stick with realistic expectations is all.
Go to Top of Page

Aldrick
Senior Scribe

909 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2014 :  18:30:53  Show Profile Send Aldrick a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron

I see a lot of people paying lip service to this idea of "keep everything" inclusiveness. But then half a breath later, they'll say, "even though I really don't like ___ personally."

When the "keep everything" 5e Realms come out, will you actually buy it if it contains a large number of things you "don't really like personally"? IMO it's better to be completely honest with WotC and tell them what will prevent you from buying their products.


I'm going to have to largely echo what Jeremy wrote. I've been buying Realms products for years that have huge swaths of stuff that I absolutely loathed. 3rd Edition was an exercise in frustration for me for that very reason, and I still purchased every source book published. 2nd Edition was also an exercise in frustration for the reasons Jeremy outlined, as well as the systematic destruction of the main antagonistic organizations of the Realms as a result of the TSR policy on evil. TSR so completely ruined organizations like the Zhents, the Red Wizards, the Cult of the Dragon, and even entire deities and their cults such as Bane that they all ceased to largely be relevant in 3rd Edition. Entirely new main antagonists had to be introduced and promoted in their place - namely Shar and the Shades. Then WotC proceeded to run those into the ground by over using them.

So, yeah, I've put up with a lot of crap over the years. There is a lot of crap that I've absolutely hated. None of that stopped me from buying the material.
Go to Top of Page

Eltheron
Senior Scribe

740 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2014 :  23:33:41  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

Yes, because I've been doing that for nearly thirty fricking years now.

Interesting, because your online behavior suggests that you love almost everything and it's extremely rare that you say anything with even a hint of negativity. In fact, I'd say you intentionally go out of your way to "correct" or outright lambaste people who do share their dislikes.

quote:
It's important to discover and to experiment, to try things out even if you think you won't like them.

This is terribly preachy, with a dash of disdain. You're assuming that people don't fully evaluate things before arriving at their opinion.

When 2E first came out, my gaming group discussed it and the ToT novels for nearly a month before deciding never to include it. For us, it was too dramatic and sudden, too munchkiny, and had too much of (again, our opinion) a tone that negatively impacted the Realms in a huge way.

quote:
But I sure as hell won't say no to the Realms just because they do something so utterly minor as to include a single deity I'm not the biggest fan of.

That's fine, for you. For others, it's not "utterly minor" but rather world-damaging. I have previously explained how we felt the ToT and Cyric were not only hugely disruptive, but also inorganic to the setting and damaging to the entire tone.

You don't have to agree with it, but this is a thread asking for opinions on what we would require in order to come back. Disagree, fine. But do not pretend for a single instant that your opinion is truth or overrides my (or my group's) deeply-considered evaluation of certain changes.

Because of the way WotC has embellished and enhanced the underlying story of the ToT, because they're keeping Cyric and firmly establishing how AO, magic, and cosmic rules "work" in this new Realms, I'm not going to buy a 5E Realms. Too much has been dramatically altered, and if you are simply choosing to ignore 85-90% of a new sourcebook, then you're essentially 85-90% homebrew. Not worth it, IMO. YMMV, and that's your choice.


"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer
Go to Top of Page

Eltheron
Senior Scribe

740 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2014 :  23:51:06  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick

So, yeah, I've put up with a lot of crap over the years. There is a lot of crap that I've absolutely hated. None of that stopped me from buying the material.


In some ways, I understand where you're coming from. I didn't like a good portion of the 3E material, but there was always a fascinating tidbit of new lore with many of the books in that period.

But at some point, I really couldn't justify doing it any longer. Today, I couldn't tell you which specific thing "broke the camel's back" for me, but it was around the middle point of 3E.

If I'm going to buy a product, I don't have to use everything in it but I do have to like at least a good 70% of it. At this point, there's just too much that is being retained that I dislike - so I can't justify the purchase.


"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer
Go to Top of Page

Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2014 :  01:57:12  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron

Interesting, because your online behavior suggests that you love almost everything and it's extremely rare that you say anything with even a hint of negativity.
You can continue to play the role of Therese proxy and push fiction into the conversation about “who I am” for as long as you want, Eltheron, but this won’t change the fact that this thread isn’t about me.

Do us all a favor and stop making it personal.

Aldrick seems to have gotten the gist of my post just fine. If you’d bother sticking to the topic in lieu of derailing it with drama, I’m sure you’d have no trouble comprehending my post too.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).

Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 26 Jul 2014 01:58:02
Go to Top of Page

Venomus
Acolyte

Poland
13 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2014 :  02:10:57  Show Profile Send Venomus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What would make me happy? Well...

1) After the Dead Three (or is it Dark Three if they're alive again?)return to the Realms, they should remade they're old Triumvriate (Bane: rule rule Myrkul: animate animate Bhaal: stabby stabby) Lord of Bones remaining clergy gathering around Myrkul's Chosen, young Neith Sorn.

2) Long awaited Bane/Cyrik holy war. Yeah, I'd like to see them go full jihad on each other asses. Bane with aid of his two homeboy's and devils would have the upper (black) hand.

3) Get rid of Drizzt. Come on, he had his time. Make him a demigod, let him die sobbing in peace or give the kill to Lolth (Ao only knows why she wasn't able to kill one emo tel'quesir for more than a century now). Just let him vanquish from Faerun.

4) Blood war round ininity+1...fight! I dunno...some cosmic shift cause Asmodeus to lose his godly power which also brings back the Abbyss to it's old location. Hilarity (and lots of violence) ensues. It didn't felt right without the War in 4th edition.

5) Myrkul attains the domain and portfolio of the undeath and tries to defeat the usurper Kelemvor for the throne. And to bring back Bone Castle instead of that wuss Cristal Spire. Seariously...

6) Apropo Bane/Cyrik War. Fzoul comes back. And the Zhents in they're Keep. Shadovar vs Zhents round two (this time hopefully, not so one-sided).

Yeah, pretty much all I want is related to the gods themselves and they're meddling in the affairs of mortals. And war, lots of war. That what makes Faerun unique In my opinion, and stand out from boring setting worlds like Golarion, et cetera.

"Know me and fear me. My embrace is for all and is patient be sure. The dead can always find you. My hand is everywhere - there is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me." - Myrkul

Edited by - Venomus on 26 Jul 2014 02:14:20
Go to Top of Page

Eltheron
Senior Scribe

740 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2014 :  02:13:53  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron

Interesting, because your online behavior suggests that you love almost everything and it's extremely rare that you say anything with even a hint of negativity.
You can continue to play the role of Therese proxy and push fiction into the conversation about “who I am” for as long as you want, Eltheron, but this won’t change the fact that this thread isn’t about me.

Do us all a favor and stop making it personal.

Aldrick seems to have gotten the gist of my post just fine. If you’d bother sticking to the topic in lieu of derailing it with drama, I’m sure you’d have no trouble comprehending my post too.


"Play the role" - WTF are you talking about, seriously?

Dude, you specifically singled out my post in your reply on (24 Jul 2014 : 23:56:06) and told me that my opinions were wrong. Not that you disagreed with them, but that they were flat out wrong.

Similarly, just above, you dismissively just waved away my opinion of Cyric as an "utterly minor" deity - and you think that I'm being rude?

Come on.


"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer
Go to Top of Page

Seethyr
Master of Realmslore

USA
1151 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2014 :  02:27:25  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron

I see a lot of people paying lip service to this idea of "keep everything" inclusiveness. But then half a breath later, they'll say, "even though I really don't like ___ personally."

When the "keep everything" 5e Realms come out, will you actually buy it if it contains a large number of things you "don't really like personally"? IMO it's better to be completely honest with WotC and tell them what will prevent you from buying their products.


I think I am a total oddball. There is really very little I dislike about the Realms. Call me an eternal optimist or whatever, but my ONLY complaint has been when stuff got taken out. Nothing added has bothered me to the point of "dislike." If the theme of 5e is really about inclusiveness, I will be throwing my money at every product that comes my way. I can't wait for the "big three" (PHB, DMG, MM).

I guess the time jump is my one real dislike because by its nature, it wiped out so many of my favorite characters. Ones I got invested in somehow, be it in novel or campaign.

Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!

The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign

Edited by - Seethyr on 26 Jul 2014 02:30:30
Go to Top of Page

Eltheron
Senior Scribe

740 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2014 :  02:37:28  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr

quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron

I see a lot of people paying lip service to this idea of "keep everything" inclusiveness. But then half a breath later, they'll say, "even though I really don't like ___ personally."

When the "keep everything" 5e Realms come out, will you actually buy it if it contains a large number of things you "don't really like personally"? IMO it's better to be completely honest with WotC and tell them what will prevent you from buying their products.


I think I am a total oddball. There is really very little I dislike about the Realms. Call me an eternal optimist or whatever, but my ONLY complaint has been when stuff got taken out. Nothing added has bothered me to the point of "dislike." If the theme of 5e is really about inclusiveness, I will be throwing my money at every product that comes my way. I can't wait for the "big three" (PHB, DMG, MM).

I guess the time jump is my one real dislike because by its nature, it wiped out so many of my favorite characters. Ones I got invested in somehow, be it in novel or campaign.


I don't think that makes you an oddball. You just like what you like, and that's totally fair. It's great, even.

My question was directed more to those who strongly promote the idea of an inclusive 5E - but at the same time have a pretty large number of negative things to say about what's being retained. It seems incongruous.


"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 4 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2024 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000