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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2014 : 16:32:59
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Po Nih was a renowned Shou scholar who died in -836 DR in Shou Lung during the Battle of Infinite Darkness against the Black Leopard Cult. There's not a lot more about him to my knowledge. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2014 : 17:30:46
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Po Nih was documenting the battle, it's not mentioned whether he fought or not. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2014 : 20:24:02
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Well I think I have this Kara Tur place figured out now.
Its all to do with spirits, but in the same way as Rashemen, these are not undead spirits, they are fey spirits.
Now I already did some work on fey spirits for my Spirit Realms thread and I think it applies to Kara Tur as well.
For whatever reason (probably the same as in Faerun) in the ancient past the land of Kara Tur was very strong in fey creatures. These fey being dabbled a bit in binding animals and other creatures of the land (essentially trying to draw power from them and use aspects of that creature - so a wolf would heighten your senses and make you good at tracking).
When these fey and the animals died they became fey spirits. These spirits are called Telthor in Rashemen but really they are just a fey creature that takes the form of whatever animal it represents.
These spirits over time are absorbed into the land (which can cause the creation of place spirits like akira island), and whenever something dies in this spirit infused land there is also a chance it will become a fey spirit.
Now on Faerun these spirit strong areas were exorcised by religion. In order to consecrate a place and make it holy to a god the spirit energy was removed (maybe the divine and spirit energies are similar but antagonistic). However in Kara Tur this spread of religion never occurred. It looks like humans in Kara Tur died out long long ago and were replaced with mountain and river spirit folk and korobokuru, all fey creatures.
The only humans to arrive in recorded history were the Imaskari and they were rabid god haters.
I think the fact that the highest form of the celestial bureaucracy is a dragon form. So at some point a dragon must have died in Kara Tur and became a fey spirit. And this first dragon spirit was probably the Celestial Dragon.
So the Celestial Dragon and his fey bureaucracy exist for many millennia (Monkey and black leopard are remnants of this old fey empire).
THen the Imaskari arrive and it states that emperor kujawa died fighting the celestial dragon. I reckon the emperor didn't die, he merged with him deliberately.
Then this new celestial dragon/human hybrid starts working in favour of the humans. He evicts the old bureaucracy and sets about creating a new one from mortals that become powerful fey spirits (the path/way of enlightenment must be the means to achieve this and retain your sense of self). The Nine Immortal Travellers are the first and most powerful.
Tan Chin must have at some time attempted to become one by trying to steal the power of the nine immortal travellers (he kills one of them). He seems to have a dual personality almost of trying to kill the travellers and enslave the population of Shou Lung while at the same time eliminating outside threats to the land (creating the dragon wall). So I reckon he was an evil swine but he was also a contemporary of Emperor Kujawa and was trying to figure out what the emperor did so that he could steal his power. Unfortunately the emperor was far more powerful than tan chin realised and curse him into the spirit form he now possesses.
Anyway that just the angle I am going to be taking with Kara Tur/Shou Lung. Its what would have happened to Faerun if the creator races and the humans had never existed. |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2014 : 15:25:50
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Sometimes "spirit" creatures in Kara-Tur are not just fey. Remember, the spirits of Kara-Tur are composed of fey, elementals, outsiders, specific giants and monstrous humanoids, and certain dragons (like the Lung dragons). Spirits are not necessarily "ghostly" or "otherworldly", they are basically any being who either originates in the Spirit World and lives on the Material Plane or has some sort of function within the Celestial Bureaucracy. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2014 : 00:39:45
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quote: Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Well I think I have this Kara Tur place figured out now.
Its all to do with spirits, but in the same way as Rashemen, these are not undead spirits, they are fey spirits.
Now I already did some work on fey spirits for my Spirit Realms thread and I think it applies to Kara Tur as well.
For whatever reason (probably the same as in Faerun) in the ancient past the land of Kara Tur was very strong in fey creatures. These fey being dabbled a bit in binding animals and other creatures of the land (essentially trying to draw power from them and use aspects of that creature - so a wolf would heighten your senses and make you good at tracking).
When these fey and the animals died they became fey spirits. These spirits are called Telthor in Rashemen but really they are just a fey creature that takes the form of whatever animal it represents.
These spirits over time are absorbed into the land (which can cause the creation of place spirits like akira island), and whenever something dies in this spirit infused land there is also a chance it will become a fey spirit.
Now on Faerun these spirit strong areas were exorcised by religion. In order to consecrate a place and make it holy to a god the spirit energy was removed (maybe the divine and spirit energies are similar but antagonistic). However in Kara Tur this spread of religion never occurred. It looks like humans in Kara Tur died out long long ago and were replaced with mountain and river spirit folk and korobokuru, all fey creatures.
The only humans to arrive in recorded history were the Imaskari and they were rabid god haters.
I think the fact that the highest form of the celestial bureaucracy is a dragon form. So at some point a dragon must have died in Kara Tur and became a fey spirit. And this first dragon spirit was probably the Celestial Dragon.
So the Celestial Dragon and his fey bureaucracy exist for many millennia (Monkey and black leopard are remnants of this old fey empire).
THen the Imaskari arrive and it states that emperor kujawa died fighting the celestial dragon. I reckon the emperor didn't die, he merged with him deliberately.
Then this new celestial dragon/human hybrid starts working in favour of the humans. He evicts the old bureaucracy and sets about creating a new one from mortals that become powerful fey spirits (the path/way of enlightenment must be the means to achieve this and retain your sense of self). The Nine Immortal Travellers are the first and most powerful.
Tan Chin must have at some time attempted to become one by trying to steal the power of the nine immortal travellers (he kills one of them). He seems to have a dual personality almost of trying to kill the travellers and enslave the population of Shou Lung while at the same time eliminating outside threats to the land (creating the dragon wall). So I reckon he was an evil swine but he was also a contemporary of Emperor Kujawa and was trying to figure out what the emperor did so that he could steal his power. Unfortunately the emperor was far more powerful than tan chin realised and curse him into the spirit form he now possesses.
Anyway that just the angle I am going to be taking with Kara Tur/Shou Lung. Its what would have happened to Faerun if the creator races and the humans had never existed.
So, the celestial bureaucracy, which is formed of millions of "gods" could be some kind of spirit collective instead. Possibly with place spirits continuing whatever monotony they performed in life before dying to become a "telthor" or an actual ghost and continue to protect said place or continue whatever they used to do. So, there may be members of the celestial bureaucracy who are now ghosts purpose is to protect some old ruins, etc.... and the locals worship these spirits/ghosts and consider the place sacred. If these places continue to "grow" the celestial bureaucracy possibly through rituals to turn people into spirits... or if certain areas tend to still convert people, then that makes even more sense. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2014 : 18:19:35
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We have a bit of a anachronism with that lore - Elminster was BORN in 212 DR. He couldn't have met Po Nih.
Fix #1: The Sigil belonged to Elminster's predecessor. We could have all sorts of fun figuring out who that was! This would also mean it was only very similar to Elminster's sigil, because no two mages can have the same one, even after death (although Mystra decides these things, so who knows if there are 'exceptions').
Fix #2: Po Nih was offerred (by Mystra) a position as one of her Chosen, and then restored him to life, where he lived in secret for a time, perhaps under another name. On the other hand, he could have been one of her Chosen before death, and simply 'continued on' (as Sylūne did), although that would be weird for Elminster to give a gift to a ghost.
Either way, plenty of room to have fun with it. Also, Tan Chin was a Suel Lich (more interesting possibilities there), and went by at least two other names. He was the monk Ambuchar Devyam, and also Tsao Choo (in the Ronin Challenge material). For someone of his abilities, its pretty obvious he has survived down through the centuries by body-hopping (which helps us explain many of the huge continuity gaffs in the K-T history, along with the canon explanation that most emperors have the 'official histories' re-written).
Tan chin also created at least two armies of 'living golems' (warforged?) Just throwing that our there for anyone wanting to run a 'samurai warforged' in FR.
Also, in at least two different places in the K-T material, Elminster is referred to as a 'demigod', and the entirety of the K-T box set is actually 'addressed' to him (in typical, 2nd edition style), by a dragon demi-god, no less. Elminter is just cool like that. Anyhow, that lends credence to the fact that Chosen were rolled together with demigods (amongst other things) as 'Exarchs' in 4e. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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