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Wrigley
Senior Scribe

Czech Republic
605 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2016 :  14:12:28  Show Profile  Visit Wrigley's Homepage Send Wrigley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
what changed your mind if I may ask?
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2016 :  17:40:11  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well the short answer is that it did not help me achieve my goals.

I wanted to make something that could be read by and be useful to as many people as possiblr and hopefully draw them into loving the richness and detail of FR.

The DMs Guild only got me a few hundred downloads and judging by the complete lack of feedback i doubt any of them read or used it. By putting the work on the DMs Guild i lost control of that work. I cant put it anywhere else or detail it with anything other than 5e rules.

I dont like 5e rules (they are artificially constrained which was my big beef with 2e) and it is apparent to me that the DMs Guild is primarily for those interested in 5e rules and era.


I can achieve everything i want with googledrive, hosting it here at the keep amd enworld. I get to keep control of it. I dont have to use horrible 5e. And i get more feedback from you lovely folks.

So ill stick to doing it my way. The guild is a nice idea, but its not for me.

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Wrigley
Senior Scribe

Czech Republic
605 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2016 :  20:01:26  Show Profile  Visit Wrigley's Homepage Send Wrigley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So Damara and Vaasa it is then. That is still in my area of interest so keep going :-)
I would like to ask you to give some more flavour to Damara in your take. For me it is now only a goody good country with more wild than Implitur. Baronies squabbles have been played too many times and father of assasins is dead... Not much left but I think that it might be nice to rise up some legacies of old Narfell.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2016 :  21:10:59  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Im intending to give Damara a total reinvention.

Im going to detail the major settlements, detail the noble houses, put in ruins, stick in monsters (its a frontier nation after all). Add a ton of history and NPCs.

Hopefully it will be a place people want to adventure rather than just oass through.

A lot of it is going to be political squabbles though. You have the native Damarans in the south, the Sembian Damaran mix in the centre, the Suren Nar in the north, and the ancient Nar in the far west. These people dont always get on and have some deep rooted feuds.

As for ruins i figure there are dwarven ones in the west along the Galenas, the ancient Nar are in the south and are probably noe beneath a settlement or two, the Suren Nar have their burial chambers beneath Heliogabalus, the giants probably have a few mountain ruins as well. Most of the ruins will be more recent though but no less dangerous (Damara wasnt formed all in one go after all). Plus there are all the demons hiding there from Impiltur.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2016 :  21:22:02  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh and im doing Damara before the WitchKing kills the King and before he is killed.

The way i see it there is little point in having a story if you dont get to play through it (yes it has already been done but im not that fond of the adventures that exist for it).

Then i can do a separate adventure that details the witchkings destruction and Damaras destruction. And this adventure can detail the new Damara as well with all the changes brought about by the adventure.

Thats how i want to proceed with it anyway. Sourcebooks that detail a region in 1356 dr. Then event/adventure books that change the region and detail the new updated region.

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Wrigley
Senior Scribe

Czech Republic
605 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2016 :  18:17:57  Show Profile  Visit Wrigley's Homepage Send Wrigley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Total reinvention...seems almost like a 5e 14th century :-D

Your mix of cultures sounds nice, I am looking forward to reading it.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2016 :  18:43:19  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Definitely not 5e 14th century. Just d20 and 1356 but without thunkers and thunker of thunkers or non realms names and concepts.

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Wrigley
Senior Scribe

Czech Republic
605 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2016 :  22:40:10  Show Profile  Visit Wrigley's Homepage Send Wrigley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
BTW just the idea I have been playing in my mind about Great Glacier - it has moved several times through ages in cycles (hint, hint) so there is great opportunity that there will be previously unaccesible ruins from different era.

(I was just kidding with 5e likeness)
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 13 Dec 2016 :  06:43:02  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Im also thinking something similar.

The great glacier began in -25500 and covered the heart of ostoria.

Then it receded at some point in history after the giants went on a quest to recover the amulet of ulutiu.

Then it was replaced around -2550 and the glacier began to grow again but slowly because netherese mythallars were impeding its growth on the western side.

It expanded much more in ther first few centuries after the raising of the standing stone. Im wondering if this was not down to the arrival of something new.

The elves of riildath worked great magic presumably to neutralise whatever caused the sudden growth. It has now shrunk back to its amulet induced size.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 13 Dec 2016 :  07:17:19  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh and please drop any ideas you have in this scroll or the Damara, Vaasa, and Narfell scroll in the Running the Realms.

If it fits ill work it in somehow.

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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2016 :  06:53:04  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting thread. It's fun to see alternate takes on lands and histories, so here's a truly off-the-wall one I came up with:

[Disclaimer: My FR knowledge ends somewhere around the year 2000, so I know nothing of 4th/5th edition, the Sundering, or the Spellplague other than in the vaguest of concepts. So I apologize if anything I mention here has already come to pass]

I envision a Realms where the elven decline continues to such a drastic degree they are forced completely off the mainland. Furthermore, they are so weakened as a people they can no longer maintain the island defenses that keep Evermeet inviolate. To alleviate their crippling poverty, the Council has opened up Evermeet to outsiders as some kind of "Paradise on Toril" resort island (blasphemy!!!) Curious humans from Waterdeep, bored nobles from Sembia, even jaded officials from far off Kara-Tur have purchased seasonal vacation homes on the island, enjoying elverquisst toasts while receiving deep tissue massages from the oh-so dexterous hands of elven servants.

These often boorish human "guests" think nothing of throwing wild parties, trashing the resorts, overhunting the forest glens, and generally making a mess of everything. But their gold is good, so while the locals may seethe inwardly at the invasion of their once sacred isle, they are forced to put on smiles of obsequiousness as they wait hand and foot on their only viable means of income.

A younger generation of hotheads tries to re-establish elven pride and form small terrorist cells that ambush the resort towns and injure/kill the humans to discourage their visitation. Some of these elves are true adherents of the old ways and seek to return to past glory, but many are simply hooligans who join gangs for no other reason than to give vent to their pent-up rage, doing damage to their own peoples just as often as to the outsiders. Regardless of cell type or motivation, all of them are hunted ruthlessly by the Council, who realize the human tourists, distasteful as it may seem, represent the last gasp chance to revitalize a dying people.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 28 Dec 2016 :  11:02:09  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Its an intriguing idea. I personally make my speciality in the grey areas between realmslore and taking the words of realmslore and twisting them into different interpretations (a quote out of context can have many interpretations).

The next and hardest part is taking an idea and detailing it into something concrete. Its also the most rewarding part but many people give up due to the sheer amount of time it takes.

If you want to go forward i can only impart what has helped me. Which is to immerse yourself into the region or era or character. Collect everything you can find about it and then read it with extreme scrutiny. And finally write every idea down. Some may be useless but others can become gems with a bit of tweaking. Its horrible trying to remember an idea you have forgotten and didnt write down.


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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 14 Aug 2017 :  18:31:13  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well my new site is up and running. A bit low on detail at the moment but i have a page Divinity and a page on Dalath with growing detail (needed to detail how the gods work before working on Unther it is a special case when it comes to godhood).

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2017 :  21:01:00  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just in case anyone is interested.

I now have details on the Old Empires taking shape (specifically Unther, TiaMa'at, Dalath at the moment) as well as a rule system (ARRGS) to accompany the alternate version of the Realms.

I'm not sure which of the links work below (so please let me know which is more useful for accessing it). It may also require a wordpress login to access (but I'm not 100% certain if that is correct).


https://alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/

https://wordpress.com/read/blogs/125303490/posts/2

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 11 Sep 2017 :  21:19:03  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Went on a bit of a rules drive today. I finished Classes today

Only 3 classes available that cover the range of roles for players; experts, magic users, and warriors.

Each class has a variety of options that can be chosen at each level and should allow a player to mould his character into whatever he wants.

Experts cover those characters that focus on skills.
Warriors are obvious.
Magic Users cover anyone that wishes to cast spells. The only distinction between the traditional cleric and wizard is the spell list they have available.

I'll be adding Themes in another section that add make much more specialised options available and basically allow a character to choose a kit or a prestige class (by being able to select these weird options if they want).

The idea is that every character will be unique if the player wants it to be. No more pigeonholing players into a particular role, you can take what you want and mix it up how you wish to make whatever character you like.

For my version of the Realms, less classes makes it easier to detail (I don't have to spend hours thinking about what classes a character has, only the role he fulfils). I also won't be making every priest a spellcaster (they don't even need the Magic User class - just have knowledge about Religion). Likewise not every Sage will be a Magic User, they are just knowledgable individuals. Finally not every fighter will be a Warrior, an Expert makes a fairly good Warrior, and most NPCs will actually just be a 1st Level human and possess no class beyond their Race (you can advance your Race as a class).

This page is under the ARRGS Rules section. Races next.





Any comments or feedback on how easy it is to read and understand would be great





Edit: Also added some races. Back to Old Empires tonight I think.

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Edited by - Gary Dallison on 13 Sep 2017 12:53:36
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2017 :  14:34:20  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Working on the Cult of the Queen of Chaos, a cult that serves TiaMa'at and is the third incarnation of cults that have served her over the millennia (the earlier being the Cult of the Dark Lady and the Cult of the Nemesis).

Here's a link if anyone fancies a gander. I will be updating it more.

https://wordpress.com/page/alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/368

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2017 :  08:26:52  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Anyone have any skills with wordpress i can borrow. Im trying to use a link to an anchor on another page. I can do it in html easy but it doesnt work on wordpress.

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Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2441 Posts

Posted - 10 Jan 2018 :  23:33:57  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dazzler, I'm wondering if you don't mind if I use your Laerakond stuff from the older Alternate Dimensions Issues. I'm planning to tweak some stuff, as I like Laerakond being in Abeir before the Spellplague, but most of it is really useful for an idea I have.

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2018 :  05:47:37  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Zeromanux, i somehow seem to have become unsubscribed from my own topic without noticing.

By all means use anything you like in any way you like.

Usually i have other ideas stashed away for future unfinished issues but unfortunately thats not true with laerakond.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2018 :  14:21:23  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So what should go into race/subrace article.

I looked over Races of Faerun but there is a lot in there that is more specific to nations than a subrace of people.

For example a list of gods for a subrace does not seem appropriate because gods are regional and a subrace can be split across multiple regions. Names do not seem appropriate either because that is again regional. Language is not appropriate because it can be regional (for instance Unther and Mulhorand are Mulan but have two different but related languages.

So I've got history, I've got the outlook (Mulan agree with slavery and following law and order). What else is there that needs including?

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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2018 :  14:32:44  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

So what should go into race/subrace article.

I looked over Races of Faerun but there is a lot in there that is more specific to nations than a subrace of people.

For example a list of gods for a subrace does not seem appropriate because gods are regional and a subrace can be split across multiple regions. Names do not seem appropriate either because that is again regional. Language is not appropriate because it can be regional (for instance Unther and Mulhorand are Mulan but have two different but related languages.

So I've got history, I've got the outlook (Mulan agree with slavery and following law and order). What else is there that needs including?



If you're specifying some article on race/subrace, one of the biggest things I can see are identifying features of said race. For instance, in no uncertain terms, what are their general skin, eye, and hair colors. For instance, I've heard people use terms like swarthy, dusky, etc... which are ambiguous. Terms like "lightly tanned" or "heavily tanned" or "dark brown to black skinned" or "extremely pale skinned", etc... tends to be non-ambiguous.

Other things might be tracking the movements of said race over time. For instance, did they arrive "from across the sea, and modern scholars assume they came from as far away as Anchorome or even farther, though some scholars wonder if they didn't actually arrive from Abeir or even another world".... or did they "arrive suddenly via a gate believed to be down in the modern day country of X". Naming any major countries in the past that the race was prominent in that perhaps doesn't exist any longer. In doing this, I'd recommend several maps like those shown in the Horde box showing the state of where races were during certain points in time.

Along these lines, we have the races from Races of Faerun, but also consider the fact that we had Laerakond arrive, and it had new human subraces arrive as well. Were there any migrations as a result (however, since I know 4e doesn't exist to you, I don't see you pursuing this path).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 22 Mar 2018 14:37:54
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2018 :  15:51:22  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ahh yes, physical features makes sense.

Oh and I had an epiphany about the first humans recently. They originated near the okoth and borderkingdoms region and spread to with the sarrukh migration (who enslaved them).

So the turami and talfir and possibly chultans or a surface on the chultans peninsula and are all related to the origin species and evolved in isolation into separate subraces.

It explains why waelan is related to a language on an island in the sea of fallen stars (they both remained in isolation on islands as pureish examples of their related language while everywhere else the turami and talfir language mixed with their neighbours).

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Wrigley
Senior Scribe

Czech Republic
605 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2018 :  14:23:58  Show Profile  Visit Wrigley's Homepage Send Wrigley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I had thought about human orgins on Toril for long time. Look at description of Janni as I belive they are the precursor of humans before they settled in Material Plane. It also explain how they evolved differently in each part of Toril and how they got there.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2018 :  20:14:06  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What's the source for this jann origin, it sounds interesting.

Humans are native to toril, or so we think, but not all humans ethnicities are native to toril. In fact most human ethnicities seem to be from elsewhere.

The turami and talfir are likely the two native ethnicities and I think tashalan are the third. All descended from the same now vanished human ethnicity which existed along the South eastern shores of the lake of steam. It was enslaved by the sarrukh early on and spread with the sarrukh when they dispersed to found their empires.

The jann origin seems more likely for a single non native ethnicity and the calishite seem the most likely candidate in faerun.

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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
955 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2018 :  21:00:01  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
To be fair, I myself thought Talfir could be possibly related to Chondathans, or rather Jhaamadathans, if on the basis the eyes of Silvanus you are talking about were fairly in the centre centre of the Jhaamdathan Empire, and close to which Jhaamdathan's "started out".

Eldath is implied to be strongly be originally from the Talfiric pantheon, ie having an ancient place of worship, and posibly dwelling once on the Moonshade Isles, an ancient Talfiric bastion, as detailed in Dragon #376:
quote:
Myrloch: Oft featured in song, Myrloch is large
freshwater lake; its 800 square miles are deep, cold,
and clear. Centuries past illuskan settlers built
defensible, man-made islands on the loch, called
crannógs. Accessible by coracle, these small islands
served as shrines to the lake spirit Eldath. A handful
of crannóg remain today, preserved by nereids in
service to Sarifal.


Along with other details, like her relationship with Tempus (a confirmed Talfiric deity).

Yet Eldath name, contains the "dath" present also in Jhaamdath and Chondath.

Although I think Eldath was originally a fey deity, seing how she was conneted first closelly by Ed to Nymphs (worshipped by them, and though by Nymphs to be the source of some of their powers), in her first description, and to Nereids by Brain R. James.

It's also possible though the Turami could also be one or more of the tribes that founded Jhaamdath, mixied with other tribes to give rise to the Jhaamdathans (and eventually, Chondathans). With Eldath being an ancient Turami-Talfir power...if one that was originally an Archfey or Primal Spirit.

(Especially that seeing before the Time of Troubles, from what I know Eldath resided in the Materia Plane, it's possible she fully transitioned into a deity only after the Time of Troubles...)

The split between the Talfir and Turami (as well as Tashalans) would have to occur in pretty ancient times, as Talfir are described as fair skinned, of light eye colors and dark haired allready in quite ancient times (ie the Crown Wars).

It's more probable the Turami-Talfir that developed into the Talfir got lighter skinned, rather than vice-versa, as it's a more common process in nature among humans. Although that's a reall world detail


Edited by - Baltas on 23 Mar 2018 21:02:46
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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2018 :  21:45:59  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well even if I pursued a deity centric model of religion I would consider what goes people worship now to be a poor indicator of events 30000 years ago (They die fairly regularly and are replaced by aliases of other gods far too often).
A religion centric model is even less reliable as churches are prone to change radically with events like was, revolution, migration.


I'm using language and migration as justification of origin. It's by no means e0000 years reliable but it's more reliable than religion. We know sarrukh took human slaves. Turami and talfir are old and are geographically near sarrukh lost empires.
Talfir fled to moonshaes from the heartlands and have a language association to a tiny isolated island in the vision reach. Turami have a stronghold in the vision although they now speak chondathan.

I don't believe turami turned into talfir or talfir into turami. More that 30000 years ago one people were separated by sarrukh enslavement and migration and that these now isolated groups evolved into turami, talfir, and tashalan over a period of 30000 years.

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Baltas
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Poland
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Posted - 23 Mar 2018 :  22:12:52  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I didn't claim you meant Talfir came from Turami, or vice-verse, just that the separation had to occur in very ancient times, which why I described the original population as "Turami-Talfir", compare to the terms Indo-Iranians, or Indo-Europeans etc.

And I just think Eldath, might be just a Turami-Talfir deity, seeing her asociation with arguable cultural enclaves of both populations (ie the Moonshade Isles for Talfir (retained a Talfitic language), and the Eyes of Silvanus). With possibly Turami introducing Eldath to the Jhaamdath pantheon.

Again, I also suggested Eldath is quite probable a Fey Deity (probably being originally an Archfey or Primal Spirit), so it's possible both populations got the worship of Eldath from local Fey or Elves...
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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 23 Mar 2018 :  22:24:21  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Since the birth of the faerunian pantheon I don't think we can claim anything for certain about the religions and their origins. Migrants to the moonshaes from tether likely encountered the talfir living there and gave common names to the talfir spirits. Thus whatever the talfir called eldath before was lost as more and more adopted the illuskan language and Whelan became a language preserved only by their druids who use the illuskan name so younger generations will understand them.

But that is probably just my way of interpreting religion as I don't use deity centric models (where the deity is in control).

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Wrigley
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Czech Republic
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Posted - 24 Mar 2018 :  14:23:08  Show Profile  Visit Wrigley's Homepage Send Wrigley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

What's the source for this jann origin, it sounds interesting.

Humans are native to toril, or so we think, but not all humans ethnicities are native to toril. In fact most human ethnicities seem to be from elsewhere.

The turami and talfir are likely the two native ethnicities and I think tashalan are the third. All descended from the same now vanished human ethnicity which existed along the South eastern shores of the lake of steam. It was enslaved by the sarrukh early on and spread with the sarrukh when they dispersed to found their empires.

The jann origin seems more likely for a single non native ethnicity and the calishite seem the most likely candidate in faerun.



It came from my head :-) I do not like the evolution-like take with crossing from Earth so I have focused on Toril. As all other races humans were created by higher beings to populate Toril. In this case Janni were among the eldest as they came from Inner planes as messangers and servants of other elemental entities that carved and shaped Toril at those ancient times. For this reason they were special amongst other elementals as they lacked affinity to specific element so they can work with and for all others regardless of their hatered (water x fire, air x earth, positive x negative). Later on with their task on Toril done most of the elemental lords returned to Planes or slumbered in their domain and Janni were left to their devices. Some returned to Planes with their masters but most make Toril their home and they became native. As they lost some of their powers and without their masters for the first time most of them wandered this new land without aim and slowly learned about their new needs like hunger, sleep and procreation and thus living in tribal societies. They were crafty and found ways to use tools and magic to their advantage and also found their unique ability to absorb foreign elements into their being and thus thrive in almost any place on Toril (creating proto-ethincs and various crosbreeds). At this time other mighty races came to Toril (Sarrukh, Batrachi) and ensalved those humans they found to forge their new empires.
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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 24 Mar 2018 :  18:09:27  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah, I thought you had tied a janni creation myth and twisted it into a human origin story.

I personally am happy for all the races to have evolved independently at different times in the different crystal spheres.
It's a bit like hitchikers guide to the galaxy but with a universe. The universe was created and it had a plan and that plan involved humans and dragons and dwarves and elves and orcs and all manner of other creatures as it worked towards it's final goal.
Then something infected the universe and it fractured into two smaller multiverses that were similar and tried to recreate the original plan in it's own way so humans and dragons and dwarves and elves evolved all over again in both multiverses.
Unfortunately they got infected and fractured again and again and again. Who knows how many times it has happened.

Each crystal sphere tries to recreate the original plan in their own way. Sometimes they are missing a few races (no copy is perfect), sometimes similar events happen or don't (no descent of dark elves in krynn).
So toril evolved humans but humans from other crystal spheres (each sphere is it's own copy of the universe) have also migrated to toril. Dwarves and elves migrated before they had a chance to evolve.
The plan doesn't care if a race evolved naturally or from a magical accident or is created by breeding or magical experimentation or that races migrate from elsewhere, as long as they are present.

That's how I deal with the hodgepodge of identical races being on lots of other planets with their own creation myths and with similar catastrophes be falling similar races on separate worlds (drow).

Turami and talfir are natives, almost all other human ethnicities are not

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