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Euranna
Learned Scribe
USA
219 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 16:22:05
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I cannot tell you how excited and happy this thread has made me. I am supposed to be working and instead doing the happy dance at my desk and bugging my coworkers about my beloved Realms.
Thank you so very much. I think I might even be classified as giddy. Or that might be all the coffee.. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2013 : 21:27:15
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I just finished reading it today, and I loved it! I didn't read through this entire thread, so I'll probably repeat things people have already said, but Erin mentioned one of the Chosen is of Vhaeraun. Haha, I knew it! Phalar was too...shadowy to be a Lolthite lol. Anyway, I really enjoyed this book, and I would have probably finished it sooner if I didn't have other things going on. It's amazing how quickly these threads build up! You're absent a few days then you return and there are new topics. I can't keep up.
I have to say I love Lorcan. He kinds of reminds me of a demonic character I co-created with a friend (though in our world demons are a little different, but his personality is similar). Anyway, I could say more, but it's probably already been said, and I haven't read through this whole thread. Oh, I will say I like Dahl better now. He has grown on me. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2013 : 21:35:34
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Oh, yeah, and to add. A story from Phalar's POV would be awesome! I was upset by V's death, and if Wizards changes their mind and decides that "hey, maybe we shouldn't just focus on Lolthite drow", that would be great, too.
All in all, great work, Erin! There were twists I didn't expect. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Slats
Acolyte
Australia
0 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2013 : 23:56:31
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I saw this book was released, and then checked here for some Reviews. I saw that everyone highly praised the first two Brimstone Angel books. I checked on Audible and found all three books where by the same narrator, another huge recommendation for me as I hate it when book 2 or 3 of a Series has a brand new 'voice' for the main character.
I've now listened/read all three and thought they where GREAT! Very keen for the next book by Erin!
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2013 : 09:52:58
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quote:
Side note I'm wondering who could be protecting the twins from thier ancestor.
I'm going to state my hypothesis on this as no one else has mentioned it. But I think that Azuth is acting through Asmodeus (and Asmo doesn't know it). My clues are that Asmo 'laughed' and it is known that Azuth has a very Elminster-esque sense of humor and that Azuth tends towards beneficence despite not being a 'good' deity. Lorcan stated that Asmo's laugh was not like the last time he heard the Lord of the Nine chuckle so I'm inclined to believe he's being manipulated somewhat.
I also figured that Tam was behind Zhanya's plot and Phalar was V's Chosen (and THANK YOU for the confirmation that V is back, which means E is back as well). Strangely, I missed the Chosen of Torm.
I'm eager to see what will happen with Dahl in upcoming novels. I have a thing about characters who go through 'transformations' of heart. I really want to see how things play out for him and Oghma. Oh, and I now intend to read the Brimstone Angel series.
I'm also eager to see how Brin and Havi will work things out (or IF they will manage it). I'm hopeful for them, but something tells me Brin will have to do his duty in the end...a sad ending but then that will make for a more poignant (and realistic) story. He reminds me of Sturm Brightblade from Dragonlance for some reason. Sturm was at odds with things in his life and had a tragic (though heroic) story in the end. Heh, sorry for that little digression there but Brin is one of my favorite characters for staying true to his love for so long without her. He could so easily have been a two-dimensional jerk so gotta give the guy his credit.
Lorcan. I'm at odds with him. I would really like to see him somehow 'redeemed' through his relationship with Fari but, like Brin, I'm thinking his story wont allow for that. Also, part of me wants him to remain 'evil' and end up beating Sarche at her own game. For some reason, he strikes me as the kind of devil that could really excel...meaning I see him as MORE capable than Sarche at gaining rank in the Hells (strange as that may seem).
Anyway, before I end up writing my own novel here...I very much enjoyed the book and you are now on my auto-reading list Erin.
Cheers. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
Edited by - The Arcanamach on 26 Dec 2013 10:13:10 |
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ErinMEvans
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2013 : 22:28:37
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
quote:
Side note I'm wondering who could be protecting the twins from thier ancestor.
I'm going to state my hypothesis on this as no one else has mentioned it. But I think that Azuth is acting through Asmodeus (and Asmo doesn't know it). My clues are that Asmo 'laughed' and it is known that Azuth has a very Elminster-esque sense of humor and that Azuth tends towards beneficence despite not being a 'good' deity. Lorcan stated that Asmo's laugh was not like the last time he heard the Lord of the Nine chuckle so I'm inclined to believe he's being manipulated somewhat.
You are the first person I've seen recognize that something is up here. Well done! (Will not confirm or deny)
Very glad you enjoyed the book! |
www.slushlush.com |
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Euranna
Learned Scribe
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2013 : 23:25:28
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I thought the same thing about azuth/asmodeus.
:) it made me think of something from the meta-plot of Vampire:the Masquerade.
It also makes even more sense because Azuth is under Mystra, who has returned. I can see Azuth being able to exert
more of himself.
But thank you for confirming that Azuth had a sense of humor. That was re piece I was not sure of. :) I thought it was the case, but my mind
Can play tricks on me. :) |
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Euranna
Learned Scribe
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2013 : 18:21:56
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On the same note, remember at the end when the Brimstone Angel was looking at Farideh and Havilar sleeping and could not get close to them because of the powerful protection spell laid upon them and that a god had to be involved in its casting?
And then the joke and chuckle came from Asmodeous at the same time he told Lorcan to keep Farideh safe?
And her silver eye?
Yes, I know I might be making connections that are not there. |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2013 : 18:52:31
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Overall I really enjoyed the book. The pacing was good in the beginning, lagged a bit in the middle, but finished strong. I liked the fact that Stedd from the next Sundering novel got introduced here.....this is the same Stedd correct? I also really enjoyed trying to figure out which chosen belonged to which god. Oh and I totally caught into the Azuth boiling up into Asmodeus' conscience...well played.
The only critiques I have are very superficial and don't really take away anything from the whole novel. It's just me being nit picky.
1) The chapter length seems to be getting longer in the current FR novels. Again, it's totally nit picky. But for someone who can only read in short periods for one reason or another, this can really affect the pacing of the book. No marathon reading for this guy.
2) I found Ferideh's character sometimes infuriating. There's this under current of arrogance to her that manifests in her inability to trust others to keep themselves safe. Only she can save everyone even though they are all more experienced that her (save for Havi) There's also a bit of selfishness in her. Both of these traits keeps her at arms length in terms of being a character that I root for. Was this something that you consciously wrote into her character, or is this an unintended byproduct? |
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ErinMEvans
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2013 : 19:40:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Euranna
Yes, I know I might be making connections that are not there.
Maybe...but I love it!
The thing about writing a series is that you start laying groundwork in book one...and no one notices because they don't know there's anything to notice. And you can't SAY anything, because that will ruin the surprise. Now that I'm finally on Book Three, things start to accumulate and it's like "YES! I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO KNOWS SOMETHING'S GOING ON ANYMORE!"  |
www.slushlush.com |
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ErinMEvans
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2013 : 19:51:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
Overall I really enjoyed the book. The pacing was good in the beginning, lagged a bit in the middle, but finished strong. I liked the fact that Stedd from the next Sundering novel got introduced here.....this is the same Stedd correct?
Same Stedd! Initially, I was just meant to mention him in the background. But he ended up being really useful, and RLB was kind enough to let me give him some things to do.
quote:
1) The chapter length seems to be getting longer in the current FR novels. Again, it's totally nit picky. But for someone who can only read in short periods for one reason or another, this can really affect the pacing of the book. No marathon reading for this guy.
I feel you. I also know I write rather long chapters. Especially in this book. :/
quote:
2) I found Ferideh's character sometimes infuriating. There's this under current of arrogance to her that manifests in her inability to trust others to keep themselves safe. Only she can save everyone even though they are all more experienced that her (save for Havi) There's also a bit of selfishness in her. Both of these traits keeps her at arms length in terms of being a character that I root for. Was this something that you consciously wrote into her character, or is this an unintended byproduct?
Intentional. This is Farideh's tragic flaw, the character defect that leads to her hamartia (or in this case "hamartias" since it was also what made her take the pact in the first place, believing it would protect Havilar and the villagers, and what made her listen to the Book and start destroying wards).
But I would say that The Adversary is a case of her being confronted by this flaw recognizing it in herself. She cannot save everyone, and believing she can is as apt to cause problems as not--and perhaps just as importantly, it's arrogant and insulting to people she cares about and would never wish to hurt.
By the end, she is more reflective and this is why she tells Havilar about the Chosen of Asmodeus situation--not because she has to explain herself as it was when she explained Bryseis Kakistos and the deal she made with Sairche, but because Havilar has the right to know what's going on and to decide how she will deal with herself. Going forward, she's still going to be the sort of person who has to DO SOMETHING instead of simply telling someone else (thank goodness, because a hero needs a little arrogance to do much), but she won't lose that awareness. |
www.slushlush.com |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2013 : 22:22:55
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quote:
Originally posted by ErinMEvans
quote:
2) I found Ferideh's character sometimes infuriating. There's this under current of arrogance to her that manifests in her inability to trust others to keep themselves safe. Only she can save everyone even though they are all more experienced that her (save for Havi) There's also a bit of selfishness in her. Both of these traits keeps her at arms length in terms of being a character that I root for. Was this something that you consciously wrote into her character, or is this an unintended byproduct?
Intentional. This is Farideh's tragic flaw, the character defect that leads to her hamartia (or in this case "hamartias" since it was also what made her take the pact in the first place, believing it would protect Havilar and the villagers, and what made her listen to the Book and start destroying wards).
But I would say that The Adversary is a case of her being confronted by this flaw recognizing it in herself. She cannot save everyone, and believing she can is as apt to cause problems as not--and perhaps just as importantly, it's arrogant and insulting to people she cares about and would never wish to hurt.
By the end, she is more reflective and this is why she tells Havilar about the Chosen of Asmodeus situation--not because she has to explain herself as it was when she explained Bryseis Kakistos and the deal she made with Sairche, but because Havilar has the right to know what's going on and to decide how she will deal with herself. Going forward, she's still going to be the sort of person who has to DO SOMETHING instead of simply telling someone else (thank goodness, because a hero needs a little arrogance to do much), but she won't lose that awareness.
Very cool. It definitely makes her a more interesting character. I like the way you've grown the character since the first novel. I think once she matures in future stories she'll grow on me more.
I do have to say that I'm disappointing that you left out the chosen of Selune. I think she is horribly under utilized in FR fiction. But then again, maybe that's her style to just hang out in the background. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2013 : 23:49:42
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I never really thought anything about Asmo laughing, but I should have given that every other time one diety absorbs another there is a personality shift.
Sharess absorbed Felidae and gained a wanderlust, she asborbed Zandilar and gained lust itself. Her son Salvaterm absorbed the Demon Lord of Spiders and became evil.
There are other examples. So Asmo absorbing Azuth would natural change his personality. This could be interesting. |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2013 : 03:11:15
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| I think that it's more than just a change in personality. The theory, if I'm correct, is that some aspect of Azuth's conscious is still at work in Asmodeus. So the spell that's protecting the twins is actually from Azuth part of Asmodeus. |
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ErinMEvans
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2013 : 05:18:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
I do have to say that I'm disappointing that you left out the chosen of Selune. I think she is horribly under utilized in FR fiction. But then again, maybe that's her style to just hang out in the background.
I imagine her as subtle and far-reaching. Not the sort to blaze down in an avatar, but maybe the sort to make a thousand tiny nudges to be certain good prevails without tilting mortals into a tailspin. I actually use Selune a lot, but mostly in unobtrusive ways.
Also, I feel I should introduce you to Crystyn's theory here: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18614
Possibly because I'm a troublemaker. |
www.slushlush.com |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2013 : 19:36:13
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quote:
Originally posted by ErinMEvans
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
I do have to say that I'm disappointing that you left out the chosen of Selune. I think she is horribly under utilized in FR fiction. But then again, maybe that's her style to just hang out in the background.
I imagine her as subtle and far-reaching. Not the sort to blaze down in an avatar, but maybe the sort to make a thousand tiny nudges to be certain good prevails without tilting mortals into a tailspin. I actually use Selune a lot, but mostly in unobtrusive ways.
Also, I feel I should introduce you to Crystyn's theory here: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18614
Possibly because I'm a troublemaker.
You are indeed. You and Erik make for some fun Realms authors! So yeah, I have felt that Farideh's goodness is too complete and there is no way that she'll be turned. So it got me thinking of end games for her and what good deity or patron she'll ultimately get attached to.
It definitely leads to some exciting speculation. :D |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2013 : 05:36:04
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quote:
Originally posted by ErinMEvans
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
I do have to say that I'm disappointing that you left out the chosen of Selune. I think she is horribly under utilized in FR fiction. But then again, maybe that's her style to just hang out in the background.
I imagine her as subtle and far-reaching. Not the sort to blaze down in an avatar, but maybe the sort to make a thousand tiny nudges to be certain good prevails without tilting mortals into a tailspin. I actually use Selune a lot, but mostly in unobtrusive ways.
I think that view makes sense given that Selune is the moon goddess. The moon is usually a subtle source of light, and exerts a subtle pull on the tides. Plus, she has to be subtle to fight Shar effectively, since Shar is one of the most clever deities. (Although WOTC has swept Selune aside as Shar's archenemy in favor of Mystra and Lathander).
I wonder, though, if Selune's passivity is the best approach. I'm a big RAS fan, and I remember reading about the evil Selunite priests in Road of the Patriarch who were finally punished. The way it happened seemed fitting of Selune's approach to problems, but sometimes I wish she came in blasting like Lathander. A lot of innocent people could have avoided suffering if Selune hadn't taken her sweet time.
I know I'm overthinking all this, but I love Selune!
Also, I feel I should introduce you to Crystyn's theory here: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18614
Possibly because I'm a troublemaker.
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2014 : 19:01:42
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I am about a third of the way through this book and I have to say I am struggling with it. None of the characters have engaged me on any level except in a negative way.
I hope it gets better. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2014 : 23:23:44
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Not even the Twins or Mehen?
To each thier own I guess, I liked all the Characters. |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2014 : 03:37:11
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| I can sort of see what he's saying. Sometimes in a novel you get one or two characters that it focuses on that really grab you. I can't say there was any one character that grabbed me in this novel. But I don't hold that against it. I just feel that there was a lot going on and there were so many characters floating about. I do say that there were certain scenes that I always enjoyed. Any scene with the Nameless One was cool and the scenes with the Fountain waters were always fun. |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2014 : 23:34:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Not even the Twins or Mehen?
To each thier own I guess, I liked all the Characters.
Nope. This is why I wish that the sundering had been a simple trilogy written by one major author, rather than stringing it out loosely over 5 books. So far I have actually seen very little about this RSE. The other tales could have been written independently of the main event as it were. |
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charger_ss24
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2014 : 18:45:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Not even the Twins or Mehen?
To each thier own I guess, I liked all the Characters.
Nope. This is why I wish that the sundering had been a simple trilogy written by one major author, rather than stringing it out loosely over 5 books. So far I have actually seen very little about this RSE. The other tales could have been written independently of the main event as it were.
In response to one of your previous posts, I too, am having a hard time getting drawn in on The Adversary. What turned me off to start was all the pillow talk, romantic thoughts and angst surrounding Havilar. The book finally piqued my interest when Farideh and Dahl found their way in the company of Adolican Rhand. Hopefully it starts drawing me in now.
So far, I share you views overall with the Sundering. I'm fully expecting the next two books to be the same as these past three books, stand alone novels pitting the protagonist against the antagonist with tidbits of Sundering material. I'm holing out hope that The Herald will tie everything in together and we'll have a grand "ah ha!" moment. |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2014 : 21:29:20
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quote:
Originally posted by charger_ss24
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Not even the Twins or Mehen?
To each thier own I guess, I liked all the Characters.
Nope. This is why I wish that the sundering had been a simple trilogy written by one major author, rather than stringing it out loosely over 5 books. So far I have actually seen very little about this RSE. The other tales could have been written independently of the main event as it were.
In response to one of your previous posts, I too, am having a hard time getting drawn in on The Adversary. What turned me off to start was all the pillow talk, romantic thoughts and angst surrounding Havilar. The book finally piqued my interest when Farideh and Dahl found their way in the company of Adolican Rhand. Hopefully it starts drawing me in now.
So far, I share you views overall with the Sundering. I'm fully expecting the next two books to be the same as these past three books, stand alone novels pitting the protagonist against the antagonist with tidbits of Sundering material. I'm holing out hope that The Herald will tie everything in together and we'll have a grand "ah ha!" moment.
I can see why they did it. Sew up loose ends with the other plots and also tell the sundering story. Two birds with one stone etc.
Trouble is with that is that the authors have to chop and change the stories they were going to tell originally. Paul kemps book is a good example. It felt very heavily chopped. That story deserved a trilogy on its own. |
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oldSchoolFRfan
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2014 : 16:34:40
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Started reading the series yesterday and finished reading the Brimstone Angels series today and here's my thoughts:
The ~8 year hole sucked and didn't add anything.
The series writing was poor and generic with details/description about the environment, actions, sources, etc. Example: Where did Adolican Rhand appear after the light flashed before Havilars eyes and Farideh agreed to come with him? How come she couldn't she reach her even thought she was right next to her earlier just now?
Liked the twins characters tho. |
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Euranna
Learned Scribe
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2014 : 20:15:23
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Not to argue, but the 8 year gap in their lives is a part of Farideh's decision making process. Her guilt leads her down the path she takes, not once, but twice. Among other things, it has a huge psychological impact on all the primary characters that influenced their actions.
I don't think Havilar was right next to Farideh, I think she was close, but not within arms reach. Also, Havilar did not have time to react to Farideh's decision except with shock. Havilar would never had decided to leave with Rhand herself, so she did not expect Farideh to do so. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2014 : 20:36:09
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| The eight-year gap did suck, but it was not Evan's decision. WotC moved the Realms ahead several years, and since the Brimstone Angels left off in 1479, there was no easy way to move it to 86 without interrupting the flow of the story. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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jornan
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2014 : 04:22:58
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| I thought the 8 year gap was nicely incorporated into several aspects of the story and interactions between characters. I liked these books and look forward to reading more of them. I wish other authors, Kemp and Byers specifically would get to continue their stories as well. |
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oldSchoolFRfan
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2014 : 10:20:04
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quote:
Not to argue, but the 8 year gap in their lives is a part of Farideh's decision making process. Her guilt leads her down the path she takes, not once, but twice. Among other things, it has a huge psychological impact on all the primary characters that influenced their actions.
I might have overlooked the guilt process a bit since I was annoyed with the time-jump. I just kept thinking The classic "demand your firstborn" that has been around since the invention of religion.
Why didn't Sairche "breed" her or some related for heirs to trade, 2 favors , 2 baby heirs atleast but knowing the devil paramour it would probably have been (~8*12)/9 heirs.
There's nothing to say that she already hasn't bred her and her sister for more heirs while she was in stasis since we dont know much about that since it's purposely left blank so far tho now that i think about it. Maybe ((~8*12)/9)*2 heirs?
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2014 : 14:44:30
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Well finally finished it. The words 'hard slog' seem appropriate. The writing was generic, maybe less than. Filled with fluff and padding. The story dragged, the plot was poorly executed and the characters just annoyed me with their childish thoughts, feelings and actions.
No originality at all.
Disappointing to say the least and you could be forgiven for thinking that it had nothing to do with the sundering if you hadn't seen it on the cover.
I will have to put this in my top ten of Realms worst reads. |
Edited by - Arcanus on 07 May 2014 14:45:18 |
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Crystyn
Seeker
58 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2014 : 01:43:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
[...]The story dragged, the plot was poorly executed and the characters just annoyed me with their childish thoughts, feelings and actions.
Maybe because they are children...
Personally loved the Adversy and Brimstone Angels is one of my favourite FR series just bested by the early Drizzt, Cadderly and Erevis Cale Sagas, maybe Kelemvors tale too (doen't care much about the others')
Heck I finished the Kindle version faster than Amazon was able to deliver the paperback.
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Finally completed my Drizzt collection |
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The Advesary, review spoilers.
