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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Dec 2013 : 10:04:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
Both would be awesome, but probably not feasible in the long run.
Do you think it's at all possible WotC might try a historical Realms adventure path as a one shot, to test the market? |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2013 : 14:57:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
Both would be awesome, but probably not feasible in the long run.
Do you think it's at all possible WotC might try a historical Realms adventure path as a one shot, to test the market?
It's possible... I think a better question would be how it would be judged, by WotC. We already know that the number-crunchers have, in the past, set unrealistic goals for products.
So that becomes the question: if WotC does try a historical Realms adventure path, will it really get a fair shot from the numbers folks? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2013 : 23:44:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
Both would be awesome, but probably not feasible in the long run.
Do you think it's at all possible WotC might try a historical Realms adventure path as a one shot, to test the market?
WotC has the resources to make anything possible, especially relative to their nearest competitors, or even those competitors combined. Whether or not they decide to do so is another matter.
That's the thing holding WotC back much of the time. When they launch something, if all the pieces fall together, they are unrivaled in advertising and coverage. They just don't stick with anything long enough to build self-perpetuating momentum.
Wizards didn't stick with an official LFR. For the Sundering modules in their Encounters format, the third adventure may not even have a print release.
They launched 4E Essentials just two or three years after 4E. It might not be a true 4.5E, but it felt like it. The total life-cycle of 4E was relatively short, made especially pronounced by the early announcement of 5E and the rapid decline in 4E support publications.
Both Dragon and Dungeon are going on hiatus during the 5E transition. They can't even keep an electronic magazine in publication.
They also need to get their department coordination in order. I've noticed any "Year of ___" event Wizards only puts out a trilogy plus related anthology and maybe one or two game products tangentially related to the theme.
If they launch an AP it should be an event in itself. Give us the AP, give us a regional supplement for the area, a players guide, a loosely related novel, a tie-in adventure, etc.
It should not be a novel oriented event tied to a trilogy or extended series (like every event WotC does including the Sundering to a degree). That's a different type of event, that's a story event, where we follow novel characters and the focus is not on the open ended adventure.
Invariably, if the novel takes point for an event, the PCs will play second fiddle to the novel characters. That's just the nature of such prioritization. It defeats the purpose of an adventure. The Realms can handle having both active novel events and PC proactive adventure events.
If they test the Historical AP format, I'm afraid they may turn tail half-way through if sales don't meet some artificial criteria. Then we'd be left with an unfinished series or one rushed through to completion with shoddy design and production.
I think WotC has done enough testing the waters. By now they should have enough basic acumen to know what sort of products stand a reasonable chance to sell. Then they need to commit fully to that model for a few cycles with resources appropriate for such projects. Changes should be implemented as behind-the-scenes housekeeping.
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2013 : 00:03:06
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| Thank you. That was a well thought out answer. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Scars Unseen
Acolyte
Japan
16 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2013 : 12:59:29
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What I'd like to see, apart from whatever initial campaign guide/player guide offering, is progression. Pick a region, and announce a major event. Request related short story submissions and articles for Dragon publishing. Maybe send surveys to DDI members and allow participation in determining how it gets resolved.
Over the next 6 months, publish articles, Dungeon adventures and maybe a printed adventure or two to support the event. At the end of it all, take those articles, add in depth regional information and some maps, and put together a printed product. Maybe call it something like "Chronicle of the Realms: Place Fancy Name for Event Here".
Basically, keep up the sort of player/developer interaction that they started with the playtest, and keep events in the new Realms moving so maybe they don't feel a need to blow everything up every time they change the system up. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2013 : 23:31:15
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As of December 28th, we are at 101 votes.
The Grey Box replica (updated to 1480) is in the lead with 37 votes, followed closely by the Two Hardbacks option at 27 votes.
Coming in at third I see that the Single Hardcover option and the Ptolus-style book option are tied at 16 votes each. The choices are similar, meaning if we add them together we get 32 votes.
Given that, I can't call a clear winner. But I do feel comfortable saying a boxed set would please most everyone from that section of Realms fandom that is most likely to visit Candlekeep. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 28 Dec 2013 23:57:05 |
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astolfo
Acolyte
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2013 : 01:56:09
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Updated Grey Box set.
But, such a big but.....please oh please update give us a source book on 5th edition Kara-Tur and Zakhara! |
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dmgorgon
Acolyte
28 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2013 : 03:19:42
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I'd like to see a box set that has a players guide book and a DM guide that is mostly void of rules. The box set should contain a smaller booklet for players and another for the DM that contains rules and game mechanics. The reason is that I want the core of the campaign setting to be edition neutral.
One box set that did a really great job of this was the Taladas: Time of the Dragon box set. IMO, this is one of the best campaign box sets that TSR ever created. It even had several show cards with renderings of the various races that matched the campaign guide book. I know the designers of the 5e realms are working on the same sort of thing with their renderings of the various FR races and cultures.
With that said, maps that make us dream are one of the most important aspects of the campaign setting. |
Edited by - dmgorgon on 31 Dec 2013 03:30:46 |
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Pazuzu
Seeker
Germany
61 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2014 : 11:02:32
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| I would be totally OK with a single hardcover book like the third edition campaign setting which can be later expanded with additional source books. Also I would like to see a free pdf download voucher included in the product. Furthermore, I really liked the web enhancements. I would really like to see some more information or especially maps as a pdf as much as I would like to see high resolution image downloads. |
May your dice obey your will. - Gary Gygax (*1938 - †2008) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2014 : 15:20:42
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quote:
Originally posted by astolfo
Updated Grey Box set.
But, such a big but.....please oh please update give us a source book on 5th edition Kara-Tur and Zakhara!
This sort of thing - areas outside The Heartlands - may be better served as web enhancements.
Anything that we can't say that at least 75% of the fanbase would want should be in web enhancements. Which is why all the crunchy bit should be there as well - not every fan plays D&D.
Not that I don't totally love the idea of new material on K-T (and beyond), but I really want the 5e CG to be focused - much more so then the 4e guide was. As much as I love the stuff Ed wrote for Returned Abeir in 4e, I feel like no-one actually used that portion of the book. It was a complete waste, IMHO. If the Loudwater, Abeir, and crunchy bits were all left out of the 4eFRCG, imagine how much better the actual lore might have been.
Thats what I want - a Campaign Guide that reads like a really good story, not a dry textbook. The old 1e (and into 2e) sources read like that. I think thats what got us so many non-gamer fans buying the sourcebooks, and we need to return to that format. I think 3e's impersonal approach was the start of a bad trend, and 4e was just the nail in the coffin. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Kanaric
Acolyte
5 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2014 : 21:39:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by astolfo
Updated Grey Box set.
But, such a big but.....please oh please update give us a source book on 5th edition Kara-Tur and Zakhara!
This sort of thing - areas outside The Heartlands - may be better served as web enhancements.
Anything that we can't say that at least 75% of the fanbase would want should be in web enhancements. Which is why all the crunchy bit should be there as well - not every fan plays D&D.
Not that I don't totally love the idea of new material on K-T (and beyond), but I really want the 5e CG to be focused - much more so then the 4e guide was. As much as I love the stuff Ed wrote for Returned Abeir in 4e, I feel like no-one actually used that portion of the book. It was a complete waste, IMHO. If the Loudwater, Abeir, and crunchy bits were all left out of the 4eFRCG, imagine how much better the actual lore might have been.
Thats what I want - a Campaign Guide that reads like a really good story, not a dry textbook. The old 1e (and into 2e) sources read like that. I think thats what got us so many non-gamer fans buying the sourcebooks, and we need to return to that format. I think 3e's impersonal approach was the start of a bad trend, and 4e was just the nail in the coffin.
I agree completely.
Played a significant amount of "DND Next" 5e betatest and my group decided to switch to pathfinder instead.
New to this forum but we've been playing since 1999 and were introduced to DND through Baldur's Gate so the realms is the setting we always used because of that. We played 2nd, 3rd, 3.5, dabbled in 4th before going back to 3.5 and then went to 5th (dnd next test up until a couple months ago). We didn't like 4th edition and 5th edition is seemingly near the same thing. We've also play a lot of MMOs the DOTA and League of Legends together and 4th/5th just feels like we are playing that to be honest.
IDK what it is about 4th and 5th edition. It's almost like it's TOO high fantasy and everyone has special abilities they are using at all times. It's just not nearly as interesting to play.
They should make additional source material for people who play pathfinder IMO. Nobody who switched to that is going to return to DND so it's not like they are going to lose customers. Also nobody stays with a game system just because of a campaign setting.
It's just tiring that WOTC has this policy of continuously revamping their game systems. With having to constantly rewrite campaign settings as well it's only a matter of time before Paizo's Golarion is more detailed and interesting. Because of their putting their offers into constantly rewriting everything the Realms and the other DND campaign settings are effectively losing detail. |
Edited by - Kanaric on 07 Jan 2014 21:45:13 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2014 : 05:31:06
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I hope the 5E campaign guide omits areas.
Some can be developed later and others can be left alone on purpose, to give DMs room to build their own cities, geography, nations, etc. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2014 : 14:52:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Kanaric
They should make additional source material for people who play pathfinder IMO. Nobody who switched to that is going to return to DND so it's not like they are going to lose customers. Also nobody stays with a game system just because of a campaign setting.
My gaming group plays Pathfinder... But one of the guys is in another gaming group, and is playing 5E in that one. People may not switch, but there are going to be plenty of people who adopt multiple systems.
I don't see WotC adapting anything to Pathfinder, and honestly, I wouldn't want them to. WotC has had a habit -- at least with past Realms material -- of sacrificing pagecount for stats and rules instead of lore. Supporting two game systems would take up even more manpower and pagecount that could go towards pure lore.
And supporting Pathfinder means supporting their biggest rival -- a rival that was, at least before 5E was released, outselling WotC. Helping give them business is not a good business strategy.
Many DMs move material between systems as they need it. I don't think WotC is happy with that approach, but it's still better for WotC than them actively supporting a rival is. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2014 : 15:15:41
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Is there much of a difference, Wooly, if we saw some sort of 3.5 lore for FR? 3.5 is compatible with PF (you may have to tweak some encounter power levels, but we've always had to do that with prefabs anyway).
FR can support 3.5 without directly supporting PF, and it would probably be just as good.
In fact, if the WotC guys were smart (and I think they are), they would be looking at ways to steal-back some of their lost fans, and providing rules that are compatible with the ones Paizo fans are familiar with would be a GREAT first step. All they would need to do is figure out how to achieve this goal with little or no expense.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Dec 2014 15:16:03 |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2014 : 15:30:42
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
quote:
- Netheril, the Arcane Age - covering the various ages of the Empire of Magic.
- The Rysars - covering near-present elven empires like Cormanthor/Myth Drannor, maybe Evermeet. Maybe supported with a Weeping War adventure path.
- The Crown Wars - aiming for earlier elven eras.
- We, Imaskari - ditto for the long history of the Imaskari.
- Against the Magelords - Adventure in the time of Athalantar and contemporaries.
- Skyfire Centuries - the eras of Calimshan at the height of the genie lords.
- The Shadow Chronicles - a "What If" Shar really almost won during the Spellplague truly post-apocalyptic version of the Realms.
I love this, but let's not forget The Rise of Thay and The Shoon Imperium!
The Shoon Imperium would be fun. Heck I think Cormyr, the Dalelands, Moonsea, Sembia, and the Vast areas would be an excellent frontier playstyle if set in 112 DR, The Year of the Tusk. They have a small map of what the land looks like in the Old Grey Box. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2014 : 16:16:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Is there much of a difference, Wooly, if we saw some sort of 3.5 lore for FR? 3.5 is compatible with PF (you may have to tweak some encounter power levels, but we've always had to do that with prefabs anyway).
FR can support 3.5 without directly supporting PF, and it would probably be just as good.
In fact, if the WotC guys were smart (and I think they are), they would be looking at ways to steal-back some of their lost fans, and providing rules that are compatible with the ones Paizo fans are familiar with would be a GREAT first step. All they would need to do is figure out how to achieve this goal with little or no expense.
Supporting 3.5 would be a smarter move for them... I just don't want it to come at the cost of lore. I think the ideal approach would be to put 5E lore and (not too much) 5E rules in the books, and do rules conversions for 2E and 3.5E in web enhancements. I'd not even object to those particular web enhancements being DDI-only.
2E and 1E are quite similar, and 3.5E is the basis for Pathfinder... So that approach would support the most people. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2014 : 16:28:11
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| If I'm not mistaken, didn't Ed do that "Rise of the Drow" series for Pathfinder? |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2014 : 02:59:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
The Shoon Imperium would be fun. Heck I think Cormyr, the Dalelands, Moonsea, Sembia, and the Vast areas would be an excellent frontier playstyle if set in 112 DR, The Year of the Tusk. They have a small map of what the land looks like in the Old Grey Box.
I love that idea. The setting would be somewhat like the Dark Ages. An era of high (human) civilization just ended with the frontiers getting wilder. It's not to far off, but far enough from the fall of Netheril that the ruins would be ripe for taking. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2014 : 20:04:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
The Shoon Imperium would be fun. Heck I think Cormyr, the Dalelands, Moonsea, Sembia, and the Vast areas would be an excellent frontier playstyle if set in 112 DR, The Year of the Tusk. They have a small map of what the land looks like in the Old Grey Box.
It would be pretty cool to see Cormyr as a frontier land, to discover who their enemies were and what dangers the elves and others left behind for the enterprising humans of Suzail.
I don't know when Marsember was founded, but seeing that place in proto form would catch my interest. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 00:32:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
If I'm not mistaken, didn't Ed do that "Rise of the Drow" series for Pathfinder?
He was one of about a dozen authors, the lead author names were Stephen Yeardley and Jonathan Nelson. I still need to try and get a copy. 'Try' being the operative word. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 06:03:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
If I'm not mistaken, didn't Ed do that "Rise of the Drow" series for Pathfinder?
He was one of about a dozen authors, the lead author names were Stephen Yeardley and Jonathan Nelson. I still need to try and get a copy. 'Try' being the operative word.
I picked up one of those books because it had info on my favorite fantasy deity, Cayden Cailean. Later, Paizo had a big sale, and I picked up the other books in the AP for like $5 each.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 08 Feb 2015 06:04:03 |
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2015 : 18:41:09
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| Boxed set... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2015 : 20:05:01
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I could see spending $75 on a boxed set: One that came with two books on The Realms (a lore book/DM guide & a Cyclopedia/Player's guide), Quick start rules with an adventure (with Dungeon tiles and maybe with pregen handouts), several plastic minis to play that adventure, and a beautiful new map of The Forgotten Realms on QUALITY paper (preferably done by Mike Schley).
Everything you need to begin playing in The Realms. The adventure and minis will be like crack to kids - they will want... NAY... NEED.. more. Make the minis Drizzt & company (and the adventure based on their exploits) and its PURE WIN. The thing will sell itself. People will be lining up to throw their money at WotC. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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wannabesuperman
Acolyte
20 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2015 : 21:36:50
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If they could make an updated version of the 3e book, without crunch, I'd pay up to $60ish. That 3e hardcover was amazing.
Honestly, I want separate books for regions and magic, etc, just like FR 3e. I don't have any other expensive hobbies. |
"What's so funny about Truth, Justice, and The American Way?" --Clark Kent, Daily Planet. January 2001 |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2015 : 14:36:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
People will be lining up to throw their money at WotC.
People already are but Wizards doesn't seem to care because they stick with their horrible stories and emaciated release schedule. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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What form should the 5E Realms Campaign Book take?
